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Hey everyone, I'm a brand new player technically. I used to play this game when it was in 2nd edition but that was SO long ago and I was SO young that I pretty much know less than any rookie player.

I'm getting back in to this though as a friend of mine has convinced me to start again. I used to play as Orks which were a lot of fun but I'd like to try Chaos Space Marines this time.

So I've ordered the codex and while I'm waiting for it to arrive I could really use some advice. I'm going to start by building a simple 1500 point army. I doubt I'll be able to win against my friend since he's a really good player but I'd at least like to give him some good competition. He told me the first thing I need to decide is which Chaos god my tropps allegiance should be based on or whether they should be 'undivided'.

He advised me to try Khorne first as they are what most people choose, but I'd really like to hear the opinions of the people on this forum. If you can give me a clue on what to field/not field as a beginner it would really help me. Or even if you want to criticise my choice of army and tell me I'd be better off with a different one that's great too.

Thanks for reading guys

The best thing you can do dude is to read the codex back to front, and then choose the army that you think has the coolest rules, the best looking models, the best story etc. this game is all about having fun, so choose the army you think you would have fun with.

I went for orks because i like the horde army thing, and also i like the whole comedy tinge they have.

I think that sometimes to a newer player this can seem like a bigger decision than it is.

If you're going for being the most competitive builds you won't want to be Mono-God, you'll want to have a nice mix of the Cult Marines(Berzerkers and Plague Marines, generally) and Deamon Princes of Slaanesh so you can use the Lash of Submission. If powergaming isn't what you're going for just pick the one you like the best and go for it.

Since you haven't purchased any models yet, here's my advice:

When the codex comes in, take it to your FLGS and trade it for something else.

Friends don't let friends start MEQ armies.

Ah yes. Since you're a new player here's a word of warning:

Prepare to hear on the internetz and even at your FLGS the constant droning of those who insist on playing the least supported armies in the GW catalog.

It's annoying but basically harmless.

My advice is not to listen to those that insist that all chaos armies be mono-god... or if one of the gods particularly strikes your fancy, just go for it.

Remember, in Chaos you don't get bonus points for conformity!

Monster Rain wrote:Ah yes. Since you're a new player here's a word of warning:

Prepare to hear on the internetz and even at your FLGS the constant droning of those who insist on playing the least supported armies in the GW catalog.

It's annoying but basically harmless.

To copy something I wrote elsewhere that applies here:
---------------------------------------------------
40k is populated by armies with noticeable strengths and weaknesses. Ever play Final Fight for the SNES or any other video game where you choose one of three characters: Joe, the average stats. Hagar, the super strong dude who is slow. Random blond chick who is fast but not strong.

In 40k, things operate the same:
MEQ armies: Rounded and average.
Eldar/DE variants: Fast, weaker.
Tyranids: Eh..not sure.

Orks are none of those stereotypes. Instead, orks are a modular army. The entire codex has building blocks for different kind of armies, so that you can create an army list along any theme you like, for the gameplay style you choose. The fact that you're asking for a "serious" army now tells me that you haven't learned to play orks yet. Orks *are* the strongest army in the universe. If you're picking random units from the codex and cobbling them together into an unthemed list and losing - that's weak generalship, not a weak codex.
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MEQ armies - average, rounded, not exceptional....overplayed by everyone, and honestly - my favorite armies to play against because of all those reasons. I think that MEQ armies are the easiest to pound into the ground.

I think that you have a narrow view of the capabilities of other armies.


It's quite easy to make a slow/tough Eldar army for example.

It's quite easy to make a fast and destructive SM army.

I've only met with Chaos in small controled settings, games that generally push 1k pts and is just an army of plauge marines. In this manner I have determined that Nurgel is a decent god choice, T5 for 50 pts per squad and the Plauge Marines have FNP

Dashofpepper wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Ah yes. Since you're a new player here's a word of warning:

Prepare to hear on the internetz and even at your FLGS the constant droning of those who insist on playing the least supported armies in the GW catalog.

It's annoying but basically harmless.

To copy something I wrote elsewhere that applies here:
---------------------------------------------------
40k is populated by armies with noticeable strengths and weaknesses. Ever play Final Fight for the SNES or any other video game where you choose one of three characters: Joe, the average stats. Hagar, the super strong dude who is slow. Random blond chick who is fast but not strong.

In 40k, things operate the same:
MEQ armies: Rounded and average.
Eldar/DE variants: Fast, weaker.
Tyranids: Eh..not sure.

Orks are none of those stereotypes. Instead, orks are a modular army. The entire codex has building blocks for different kind of armies, so that you can create an army list along any theme you like, for the gameplay style you choose. The fact that you're asking for a "serious" army now tells me that you haven't learned to play orks yet. Orks *are* the strongest army in the universe. If you're picking random units from the codex and cobbling them together into an unthemed list and losing - that's weak generalship, not a weak codex.
--------------------------------------------------

MEQ armies - average, rounded, not exceptional....overplayed by everyone, and honestly - my favorite armies to play against because of all those reasons. I think that MEQ armies are the easiest to pound into the ground.

How are Space Marines not modular?

There's a ton of fun and effective army builds you can make with the Space Marine Codex. I'd go so far as to say that there's more than in the Ork codex. You're certainly entitled to like Orks more than any other army, and they are a good army, but your view of other armies seems a bit narrow. There are exceptions to every example that you gave. And the bit about a "serious" army is a bit of a non sequitur.

Not that any of it has to do with the OP, who already wants to play Chaos and was asking about that.

I consider the various armies less like Final Fight and maybe a bit more like Baldur's Gate. The character you choose has various abilities, and it's up to you which to develop and utilize.

I have to agree with Dash on this one. MEQ armies are fun for an experianced player to pound on, when I play IG I'm never nice to them. People pick Chaos or SM's because they see the statlines and abilities and compare them to everyone else and think "Oh, I'm going to pwn with these guys!" It's so great to see that light being stomped out after the player has a few victories under their belt to build up their confidence.

Chaos has a little more going for it then the Vanilla marines but not enough. The problem isn't that Marines aren't modular, it's almost as if they are too modular and the units themselves specialize a little too much. Also the units them selves are too easy to read. Your Obliterator is going to sit back and shoot at my tanks, or what ever unit is being a nuisance in a position with as large of an open firing arc as possible. Your Khorne Bezerkers are going to run up a flank or cover hop their way into CC, 3+ is a nice save but don't take your chances against heavy weapons and large amounts of small arms. When the Bezerkers are within 12" they will start poping off pistol shots to soften up targets before assault. Plague Marines are going to go up the center, the T5 and 3+ save makes them good for that. It doesn't make a differance if Plague Marines move through difficult terrain or not, and I think they can still shoot and assault. Noise Marines make for decent close fire support but there are better options avalible so I don't usually see them taken.

A theory about GW that I have been working on for awhile is that they make the SM's and CSM's the most balanced units and easiest to play making new players think that picking them is a great idea. Then they go and build every other army codex around defeating one part of them. You have Eldar who are fast and hard hitting, Tyranid who swarm and are brutal in CC, Orks who lean toward close combat mayhem with tough as nails units etc. Why would you play an army that is targeted like that?

ComputerGeek01 wrote:I have to agree with Dash on this one. MEQ armies are fun for an experianced player to pound on, when I play IG I'm never nice to them. People pick Chaos or SM's because they see the statlines and abilities and compare them to everyone else and think "Oh, I'm going to pwn with these guys!" It's so great to see that light being stomped out after the player has a few victories under their belt to build up their confidence.

I'm an experienced player, and I play MEQ.

There's really no basis, at all, for this attitude. I don't know if A: You're telling the truth, B: The skill level of the people you're claiming to beat or C: Where this elitist attitude comes from.

It's kind of sad, really. Whatever makes you all feel superior.

OP: The upside to this foolishness is it's basically limited to message boards. You most likely have this kind of middle-child-syndrome acted out upon on face to face. Play the army you want to play and don't let this bother you.

Alright dude, here's the deal: read the book. If you like the Chaos gods, read this. If you don't, then don't follow the Chaos gods. Take units you like. The CSM codex is hard to go truely wrong with, because the codex is basically entirely pointed in one direction: put your heavy infantry in close combat. It also has the inverted effect of also making it easier to do a shooting army. When everything in the army is naturally strong in close combat, you don't have to buy counter assault units and can focus more on shooting. Basically, do what you want.

DarkHound wrote:Alright dude, here's the deal: read the book. If you like the Chaos gods, read this. If you don't, then don't follow the Chaos gods. Take units you like. The CSM codex is hard to go truely wrong with, because the codex is basically entirely pointed in one direction: put your heavy infantry in close combat. It also has the inverted effect of also making it easier to do a shooting army. When everything in the army is naturally strong in close combat, you don't have to buy counter assault units and can focus more on shooting. Basically, do what you want.

Listen to him. This Anti-MEQ bullcarp is amazing. Dash, I'm sure I or many people could formulate a response to bash Orks, but most people don't care. Certain lists are good, certain are bad. Certain are ones you see replicated. HOWEVER, there is also FLUFF behind a replicated list, such as running a Vulkan list with lots o' Meltas and Flamers. Tiss what they're good at, so why not USE IT?

Anyways, with Chaos, you see three-five different lists run. You see the cult list which is filled of single-god loving goodness. EVERY god can be effective when done right (even Thousand Sons for all you doubters) and they are all very nice to look at. You see the Undivided, which is what I play. Here, you see quite a bit of regular CSM, which some say aren't as effective as cult marines, though they are very powerful as a base troop. Then, you see the mix lash/plague marine list, which is made of win but makes almost no sense fluff-wise. You'll also see the occasional mech-list which uses anything they want, not necessarily with lack of fluff, or Black Legion which has a fluff-reason for using everything.

In the end, it's up to you to decide what you like, what you don't, and what you can play with. Ask around on the forums and post a possible list you want. Ask for tips and explain you're new and want to learn how to play your list right. DakkaDakka has plenty of kind people here to help you with such instances, and they'll do so happily.

CORN!!!! STARCH FOR THE STARCH GOD!!!!!

No, seriously though, I ran World Eaters back in 3rd edition, and I gotta say it was fun. Nurgle has some pretty slick moves, but doing a proper job modeling those guys is hard. It all comes down to whatever God you like the most, or use them all. Word Bearers are fun because they get chaplains (fluffwise at least, I'm not 100% about actual units).

@OP: Play what you like, but be aware that:
- single-God armies are going to be limiting your options
- Thousand Sons are a little overpriced / underpowered.
- if you're not playing tournaments, it really doesn't matter

Chaos are a great army to start with. Two of my friends play CSM, one plays Berserker heavy Khorne with Khan, the other uses Plague marines and regular CSM with a Daemon prince. Lots of versatility and power with your basic troops.

If you're looking for a small army to start off with, get yourself 2 Rhinos, 2 squads of whatever basic troops take your fancy (I like Berserkers myself) and a daemon prince.

I personally like Papa Nurgle. T6 DP's take a lot of killing, and even if you just take regular CSM rather than PM's you can still paint them up to look nice and decayed.

And if you do take PM's, they can sit on objectives or in cover all day, or they can take their special weapons and go kick bottom.

I definately advise getting some dedicated transport rhinos for your troops with TL bolters (a mere handful of points well spent) to drive your chaps over the table and block enemy lines of sight (plus a twin linked bolter shot every turn - woo! ).

A couple of 5 man raptor squads with 2 meltas will really work well against enemy tanks and can be used to lead the enemy around by the nose.

The only problem with Chaos Marines is they don't get ATSKNF, which means they can run away and potentially never come back (if below 50% strength for example), which is a pain if your small squads of raptors (or any other small squad you take) suffers a couple of casualties.

SilverMK2 wrote:
The only problem with Chaos Marines is they don't get ATSKNF, which means they can run away and potentially never come back (if below 50% strength for example), which is a pain if your small squads of raptors (or any other small squad you take) suffers a couple of casualties.

But since chaos average Ld is 9-10, shouldn't be much of a problem.. don't forget that there is a wargear item in the CSM codex that lets you re-roll Ld checks (not sure if it can be used with the raptors).

If your interested in a type of army you would get out of each chaos god, let me give you a run down:

-Khorne style built armies, which are lots and lots of berserkers, are quite powerful. Lots of attacks, good WS and S (for a troop choice) and not too shabby for point costing.

-Nurgle style built armies have lots and lots of extra durability. Unless enemies bring long lots of high power weapons your troops are extremely hard to kill. The only drawback is the considable costing.

-Slannesh style built armies tend to head towards lots of flexiability (and the most perverted things you dare think up). They are also the proud owners of the all mighty "lash of submission" pyker power.

-Tenhzeh (Gods i can't spell) style armies go for high powered weapons. Thousand suns have very powerful bolters and come with lots of invunable saves.

Sorry if my info is wrong.. it's 12:30am here and i'm dead tired.. going to go plug my tau drones and myself to bed.

Superscope wrote:But since chaos average Ld is 9-10, shouldn't be much of a problem.. don't forget that there is a wargear item in the CSM codex that lets you re-roll Ld checks (not sure if it can be used with the raptors).

You obviously don't have my luck rolling for moral checks

The rest of your info sounds about right

SilverMK2 wrote:

Superscope wrote:But since chaos average Ld is 9-10, shouldn't be much of a problem.. don't forget that there is a wargear item in the CSM codex that lets you re-roll Ld checks (not sure if it can be used with the raptors).

You obviously don't have my luck rolling for moral checks

The rest of your info sounds about right

Trade you my shooting rolls for your moral check rolls ;D

Where the lack of ATSKNF really sucks is in CC, where if you lose by even one or two points your chances of getting sweeping advanced off the board go up greatly.

willydstyle wrote:Where the lack of ATSKNF really sucks is in CC, where if you lose by even one or two points your chances of getting sweeping advanced off the board go up greatly.

The number of times I have lost squads to a couple of guys (or even a single guy) because of that... *shakes fist*

The best Chaos God IMHO

Is Abaddon.

Take him and Kharne as HQ, some berserkers for troops, and fill out with termis and obliterarors.

Small, savage, cheap to buy, and flexible to play, with deep strike for most of it.

Black legion with berserkers in the mix (tinge of red) works well.

OTG.

umm if you want to go with just a single god, and if you want strong CC people then......ahem *clear throat*........ BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

Sorry I had to say it. It's so catchy.

If you like the idea of disease ridden, pustulent, yet extremely tough marines, then Nurgle's for you.
If you want fast, perverse, extreme pleasure seeking marines then Slaanesh is the one you want.
If you fancy the quest for forbidden knowledge, powerful sorcery, and mindless, empty shell marines with armour penetrating bolters then you should follow Tzeench.
If you want insane beserkers who run across the battlefield screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" then you want to follow Khorne.
Alternatively if you like all of these the collect Undivided and use whatever whenever.
Just go with whatever you think sounds cool and fun to play with, don't collect an army based on competitive army lists cause it gets dull really quick (unless you're a powergamer and the only fun you get in the game is crushing 12 year olds into the dust! not that i'm biased against powergamers of course )

I vote Nurgle, mainly because you don't realize how awesome T5 and FNP is until you take vanilla CSM and see how much quicker they die. Sometimes it feels like the wound chart is based around T4, and some of the progression of T5 feels a little...overpowered?

You can always proxy in cult models to get a feel for each god beforehand though.

I just want to say it again:

You don't have to choose a single god to make a fluffy and fun force.

Chaos is about high-risk/high-reward. Don't be afraid to take risks!

Single god is somewhat gimped in effectiveness when compared to undivided builds.