Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

not sure if im in the right part of the forums or not so sorry if im not... i was just wondering if there is any rule/gear/models or anything at all that can possibly bring your bs up for orks? having to roll 5+ to hit almost all the time is kinda ridiculous, there has to be something im missing.

What you're missing is that Orks make up for their dodgy BS with weight of numbers and effectiveness in close combat...

Counterpoint: Orks do not need better BS.

See insaniak's post.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:Counterpoint: Orks do not need better BS.

See insaniak's post.

I counter that orks need better BS but should also have a special rule that if they ever shoot at anything, they lose the game because they iz mukin about.

Gwar!....... *tsks and points to my gunline orks*

No we don't need better BS. Though a Waargh Banner equivilant for certain shooty things might be enjoyable (Indeed I'd pay 25-50 points for it, specially on Zzapp batteries)

Gwar! wrote:if they ever shoot at anything, they lose the game because they iz mukin about.

But then if da boyz aren't blastin deyz shootaz, dey wont be as loud az da beeky boyz!

How do you improve the BS of your boyz?

A) use grots - better BS than orks

B) Use blast weapons - slightly higher than 1/3 odds of hitting on target, pretty good odds of hitting SOMEthing

C) Use template weapons. My friends joke that orks get S5 flamers for cheaper than most races get S4 flamers, and that the justification is that orks have a lower BS, duh!

I don't think they require a better bs. Hitting on 5's is terrible.... But they make up for it in sheer number of shots, having all assault weapons, plus being able to completely outnumber in CC and dominate in that field. Giving orks a better bs, would make them nigh unbeatable. Simply because they would have no weakness. Consider your standard orc shooting....

Lootas: d3 shots each, and basically an autocannon. for 150 pts you get 10 - TEN - of them! This potentially throws out 30 shots per round.... Compared to other races 150 points might buy a squad with a hev bolter... or a hev weapons team with a single or even 3 of these.... But no where near the volume of shots.

Flashgitz: about 75 pts a model fully upgraded.... But 2 shots at str 6 and Ap 1 and assault range attacks... makes these guys dead killy. again not as accurate as one would like but if they hit it friggen hurts.

big shootas: basically a 24" assault hev bolter. plus you can have a ton of these for 5 pts each, in basic trooper squads. any other race pays allot more for a comparable weapon

shootas: free swap from CC and pistol. 18" assault 2 bolters.... how are these bad? with a mob of 12 boys (so your fearless) you can mass out 22 shots a round. (not counting the nob)

basically im pointing out that the orcs have crap for BS, (ironic?) but make up for it in sheer weight of firepower, low cost weapons and great CC. (don't need to explain that i hope). and it fit's the fluff, that orks don't really aim...they just get the biggest loudest meanest looking gun, and spray wildly at their foes, hoping something hits....and with the seemingly unlimited access to ammo...somethings bound to hit sooner or later. then its "Ouch!" time

Big shootas are 36" range - they ARE assault heavy bolters. And shootas are 18" range, way better than bolters.

DarthSpader wrote:
Flashgitz: about 75 pts a model fully upgraded.... But 2 shots at str 6 and Ap 1 and assault range attacks... makes these guys dead killy. again not as accurate as one would like but if they hit it friggen hurts.

They're sooooo bad efficiency-wise though...

But I'll second the general theme, cheap weight of fire options like shootas are definitely there for the orks.

Many shooty units (kans, big gunz) bring BS3 or TL BS2 (buggies, koptas, bikes) to the table as well. BS2 really isn't a huge problem for orks, bad as it is.

That and, you know... assaulting.

That said, considering that BA got a wargear that could make them WS 5 honour guard (shudders) would BS 3 making wargear hurt that much? (But y'all have tasty tasty points)

I don't think/want orks to get better shooting... not to mention, they don't need it. Really, orks that shoot as good as Tau? Messed up.

Anyways, back on topic, there really is no way that you can improve the BS of orks. I could be mistaken though... I've only gone through the ork codex about three times.

alright, fair enough. you all have some very good points. i understand the whole loota's thing. they are definitely my most useful squad. 2 flamers 3 deff guns and 5 dakka guns. i just finished a match with my friend (he plays chaos) 1500 points, he had 2 defilers and 2 dreadnoughts, i managed to take out all 4 without loosing a single unit, and get typhus down to 1 wound. then typhus got to me and raped all of them... but the fact of the matter is that i wiped out all of his vehicles and didn't even have to shoot with more than 2 units in the squad...

Mr Bringer. Did you read the campaign where orks did try to become as good as shots as Tau?

d_tuned wrote:i understand the whole loota's thing. they are definitely my most useful squad. 2 flamers 3 deff guns and 5 dakka guns.

I'm confused, do your lootas have burnas and dakkaguns?

lootas and burnas can't be in the same squad. (else there'd be some very toasty Death company right now)

Shifting this one over to discussions...

mmmm...Thats what Orks need. Better BS nob bikers. Because they couldn't do everything all on their own efficiently enough

Gitz for shootybanner at 50 points?

Orks need better BS and a better save. BS4 and 3+ should do it. While you're at it, you might as well simplify their furious charge and always give them strength 4. Also that whole "mob rule" is too confusing! We should give them leadership 8, or 9 with a Nob.

Do you see where I'm going with this? It's called diversity. If Orks had as good a BS as everybody else, they'd be stealing another army's gimmick. Orks are all about great guns with terrible shots behind them. Orks are meant to get stuck in, not muck about with their shootas.

Your boyz vs my boyz?
I'm here cause I like discussion on custom wargear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Your boyz vs my boyz?

I joined this mainly for the custom wargear that might be floating around.

u cant have burnas and lootas in the same squad?? man im doing all sorts of things wrong! LOL ill definitely get that sorted out. i just figured since they came in the same box and all that jazz that they would be in the same squad?

Nope, the box is their so you can make either a squad of burna's or a squad of Loota's. They have different army list entries in the 'dex, so can't be used in the same squad.

d_tuned wrote:u cant have burnas and lootas in the same squad?? man im doing all sorts of things wrong! LOL ill definitely get that sorted out. i just figured since they came in the same box and all that jazz that they would be in the same squad?

Why would you even want them in the same squad? One's for up close n' krumpin', the other's meant to sit back and shoot. Check your codex for stuff like this. PS - work on your grammar a bit. Chatspeak ("u" instead of "you") and so on are discouraged here, and people generally appreciate it when your posts are written with proper spelling and punctuation.

the_ferrett wrote:Mr Bringer. Did you read the campaign where orks did try to become as good as shots as Tau?

Never even heard of it...

Really, for game balance, if the ork boys got even 1 BS better, they would be even more overpowered. They already are ridiculous in CC for their points value. And with equal points to that of a unit of Fire Warriors, in a shoot off, the orks usually will win from sheer numbers and then precede to assault crap out of me if there is anything left from them shooting me... and at that point, there really is not hope.

Mathhammering it...

Under normal conditions, it will be close, but the orks are gauranteed to get into assault range before the fire-warriors kill them off. I calculated that in a shoot-off, orks will be at over half strength when the Tau die, even if the Tau get to shoot first.

I agree. Making Orks BS 3 would simply be sick. Besides, low ballistic skill is an essential part of playing Orks. It adds flavour to the army an makes Orks a unique army to play as.

The Bringer wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:Mr Bringer. Did you read the campaign where orks did try to become as good as shots as Tau?

Never even heard of it...

You've never heard of the War of Dakka?! That was Kaptin' Badrukk's finest moment! I don't have my book on me, but believe it was a Bad Moon clan who started the war off. They invaded Farsight's Empire, so he attacked them with gusto. The Waaagh! was blunted, so the Orks enlisted the help of Badrukk's Freebooters and some of the Blood Axe clan. Badrukk made a careful plan, using a feigned retreat to draw the Tau force out (Farsight couldn't help but persue them, such was his hatred). Then the Blood Axes outflanked the Tau, hitting them from behind slaughtering the cadre. Farsight escaped when a Manta intervened, just as Badrukk was about to duke it out with him. The Manta cut down swathes of Badrukk's Freebooters, and Badrukk swore to kill Farsight. With the Orks victorius, they looted all the guns from the system's armory. The victory encouraged even more Orks to come to the fight, bringing the weight of their firepower to help.

Farsight's Empire is getting shot to peices by Orks.

Ok, yeah, I read that...

Where does it say they upped their shooting skills though?

They may have relied on bigger guns, but it doesn't state that they actually got equivalently higher BS.

There's only two ways to increase the BS of your Orks:
+ add more Orks
+ add more guns

There is no other way and if there was, you wouldn't be an Ork!

Now stop mukkin about and get ter krumpin heds!

Theres a simple way to increase the BS of your army, play space marines.