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2020/07/09 21:24:31
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
dadamowsky wrote: @Suzuteo
Wouldn't Magos in place of the Artisan be a better choice? Yes, you can fall back and shoot but you have 20 Fulgurites to counter-punch - that's enough IMO. And Magos brings a lot to Belleros in my experience, to the point it is my auto pick Holy Order.
Artisan is to give AP1 for shooting within half range. It helps make the Autocannons and Mortars a lot deadlier.
That said, I usually use the Fulgurites for offense; I push them with the Rangers to grab objectives. The Breachers would be the defensive element in my concept list. The ability to fall back and shoot is a nice Plan B though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/09 21:27:37
2020/07/09 23:02:05
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: * I am thinking the phrasing of the 9E Ignore Wounds section means Genetor stacks with Refusal to Yield again. It specifically states that effects that "a model can only use one rule to attempt to ignore each wound suffered." Refusal to Yield does not attempt ignore each wound suffered; it triggers when a unit is slain. The timing then is to roll FNP from Genetor up until you are slain, then you roll to see if you Refuse to Yield. (I am supposing none of the 8E FAQ will carry over into 9E, but the errata for our codexes will.)
It should work like that, but I have a feeling GW will FAQ it like they did with the Electroprists. Still, I don't think it amounts to very much extra durability for multi-wound models. I think you should definitely consider a Data-horde Forgeworld with Trans-node Power Cores with exploding 5 and 6s for their Arc weapons. You lose the Graia +1 CP, but you get the Autocaduceus which you will be using every turn on those cyborgs.
Heavy Support - 333 1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
1x Skorpius Disintegrator - Belleros Energy Cannon
It basically drops the Copter and move the Breachers over into a Graia Castle.
Why Graia?
1) 3+/5++/5+++/6++++*
2) Abhor the Witch stratagem
3) +1 CP because our relics suck
4) Daedalosus and Mars Canticle still work; combined with Noospheric Mindlock and RR1 from Dominus, and I can still blast away vehicles
* I am thinking the phrasing of the 9E Ignore Wounds section means Genetor stacks with Refusal to Yield again. It specifically states that effects that "a model can only use one rule to attempt to ignore each wound suffered." Refusal to Yield does not attempt ignore each wound suffered; it triggers when a unit is slain. The timing then is to roll FNP from Genetor up until you are slain, then you roll to see if you Refuse to Yield. (I am supposing none of the 8E FAQ will carry over into 9E, but the errata for our codexes will.)
Greia explixitly says the wound that slew it is ignored - and as you said you only get one attempt to ignore -the trigger is irrelevant you get one
2020/07/10 20:59:53
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
@U02dah4
Except that was errata'ed out. So unless they republish that FAQ, we can stack them just like we used to.
Here is the errata in question:
Page 95 – Graia: Refusal to Yield
Change the first sentence of rules text to read:
‘Roll a D6 each time a model with this dogma is slain or flees – on a 6 that model refuses to yield; either that model is not slain (and has 1 wound remaining), or that model does not flee.’
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 21:00:58
2020/07/10 21:14:27
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo is right, unless they either dont reup that faq or forget to add the "faq" that they dont stack they totally stack.
The issue with the old way in the book is you had to make that roll for every single wound like you do for FNP. Except its only triggered upon death, so its a disgustingly weaker FNP.
The faq Suzuteo mentions changed it to always roll 1 die even if you took 10 wounds from a single attack so its actually usable now. Still lackluster overall though.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/10 21:20:07
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
@Vineheart01
I'm surprised people don't remember that we used to stack Refusal to Yield with FNP. In fact, we did it for longer than we could not. People used to use Graia Fulgurites as counter-chargers because they were so annoying to kill.
2020/07/10 23:38:12
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
As soon as they sed multiple ignores wounds don't stack they couldn't before but some people erroneously sed you could and there were long arguments on ymdc.
so gwfaq'd it for clarity
It couldnt for the same reason as before you can only use 1 method of ignoreing wounds and graia states ignores wound
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/10 23:45:11
2020/07/11 08:46:18
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Random question: I just opened my Copter kit... and holy crap these bases are massive. Are they the same size as an Imperial Knight base?? I ask because I have been using HDF bases with magnets embedded into them for transportation reasons. It says 170x109mm, but I compared it to my HDF Knight base, and it seems to line up. Am I going crazy?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/11 08:50:48
2020/07/11 11:39:31
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: Random question: I just opened my Copter kit... and holy crap these bases are massive. Are they the same size as an Imperial Knight base?? I ask because I have been using HDF bases with magnets embedded into them for transportation reasons. It says 170x109mm, but I compared it to my HDF Knight base, and it seems to line up. Am I going crazy?
Yup, we can plane-screen better than any Eldar list
Suzuteo wrote: Random question: I just opened my Copter kit... and holy crap these bases are massive. Are they the same size as an Imperial Knight base?? I ask because I have been using HDF bases with magnets embedded into them for transportation reasons. It says 170x109mm, but I compared it to my HDF Knight base, and it seems to line up. Am I going crazy?
Yup, we can plane-screen better than any Eldar list
Except no flyers can screen anymore lol
So, why are we assuming that 9th edition removes all of the previous errata and FAQs again? If the original rule is still there then the errata and faq still stand unless another one comes out to specifically change it.
2020/07/11 13:07:35
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
You still cant land ON the flier base so if theres no space around it its screening for you.
It just doesnt block them from moving around it/through it.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/11 16:15:38
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: You still cant land ON the flier base so if theres no space around it its screening for you.
It just doesnt block them from moving around it/through it.
Minimum move requirement though is gonna make them tough to use for that purpose. How anyone used them due this in the first place seems like more faff than its worth lol
I'm considering pairing back my Serbyrus purchases, cavalry keyword has a whole lot of restrictions that make them fundamentally less useful. I'm not sure what or how many any more. I need to see what happens with Breachers points as they're an infinitely more useful unit overall.
2020/07/11 16:33:27
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: You still cant land ON the flier base so if theres no space around it its screening for you.
It just doesnt block them from moving around it/through it.
Minimum move requirement though is gonna make them tough to use for that purpose. How anyone used them due this in the first place seems like more faff than its worth lol
I'm considering pairing back my Serbyrus purchases, cavalry keyword has a whole lot of restrictions that make them fundamentally less useful. I'm not sure what or how many any more. I need to see what happens with Breachers points as they're an infinitely more useful unit overall.
Minimum move is not an issue with Hover jets, you lose the -1 to hit, for make sure chaff launchers, but...
Also this is useless for fusilaves(who want to zip across enemy units), and you only get up to 2 flyers per detachment; so costs CPs to use effectively.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/11 16:34:01
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2020/07/11 17:09:46
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Fliers in general just block for the turn they happen to be there. You can charge a hovering flier all day, its the supersonic thing that denies charges and they lose it in hover mode.
It never was a permanent strat, it was a "HA i happen to be in this exact annoying spot on the #1 turn you didnt want me to"
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/11 19:17:16
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: Fliers in general just block for the turn they happen to be there. You can charge a hovering flier all day, its the supersonic thing that denies charges and they lose it in hover mode.
It never was a permanent strat, it was a "HA i happen to be in this exact annoying spot on the #1 turn you didnt want me to"
Aircraft keyword kills that all of completely in 9th. Unless the act of hovering removes the Aircraft keyword, which sounds unfeasible, need to see the 9th Faqs to see what they do with those senility, but as it stands all Aircraft can't ever screen except against units with Fly.
2020/07/11 20:09:09
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
1. You still can't end your movement on the Aircraft base
2. Double pivoting, with the second happening in any moment of the movement, makes Admech's flier the most nimble Aircrafts in the whole game, able to do 180 each movement phase
So you just take two gunships, and switch their positions, cutting the main passageways to screen your gunline. Not that it is as important as it was in 8th, still a cool trick to have.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/11 20:10:06
Aircraft lets you move through the plane as though it wasnt there, you still cant LAND ON IT when you are done moving. If your charge to that unit behind it (why you wouldnt charge the hovering flier is beyond me) only lets you succeed by standing on the base of the Aircraft, you cant charge because you cannot stop on the base of said aircraft, hover or not.
Hovermode has no affect on that, it just means the plane gets charged.
Aircraft screening is really only a thing in really tight areas the plane barely fits in ever since that faq. It pretty much killed it, but its still around purely because you cant sit on the base.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/11 21:38:55
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I've noticed from watching the few 9th games now that you need 'wings' to advance and attack the gain objectives this edition. AM have a fantastic amount of shooting on multiple survivable platforms. Vehicles gaining a massive bonus here. Sticking with stygies for the usual -1 to hit protection and more importantly the fall back and shoot canticle (twice for cp if needed). The first turns canticle will either be cover or reroll 1s in shooting depending on 1st or 2nd turn.
The first wing is the stay at home wing with the 3 skorpius disintegrators that stay back and either hide to fire out of los or find safe firing lanes to use all their weapons. Hidden servitors for actions if necessary or to screen DS. The 10 rangers gaining high ground if possible to take pot shots at vehicles or characters. The transport for blocking and to pick up the rangers and go for a late game objective if possible. The rangers can be swapped out for 10 vanguard with x3 plasma for the same points, needs testing.
The second and most powerful wing goes for the hardest objective or choke point and squares up to the enemies hardest units. Consisting of a front screen kastelans a rear of plasma destroyers and a gooey center of the warlord and datasmith. The kastelans dont need explaining except they can move and fire, fire in cc and pseudo fight in cc if needed. The datasmith can have them fallback and shoot from cc with his warlord trait. The destroyers have ob sec for a moving castle right behind them. The warlord and datasmith can do lots of tricks with their warlord traits like exploding 6s, extra ap. Strategem for +1 to hit on both units is old reliable. Warlord rerolls 1s to hit and heals himself. Both characters heals units around them.
Third wing is a bit weaker but still powerful consisting of balistarii up front, daedalosus in the middle and grav destroyers behind. Balistarii as vehicle's can do the same as the kastelans except they are weaker in cc, they can be at +1 to hit and wound for some cp. The grav destroyers can take advantage of the daedalosus +1 to hit. They go towards another objective like the other wing on a multi pronged attack. The daedalosus regains cp starting with 10 so plenty left.
As a late game objective or a smaller attack wing the rangers can jump in the dunerider and chance it once the smoke has cleared. The servitors can also be used as a screen if I castle.
Whole army has high toughness and -1 to hit with various ward saves. Quite mobile and multiple threats. Anti tank isn't as dedicated but the sheer amount of long range shots and multi wound damage should be enough. Hordes are toast and is elite infantry. Quite good versus primaris more importantly!
Obviously with 9th edition points changes happening soon I may have to shave about 250 points, which would be the rangers, dunerider, servitors and datasmith if needed. Should still work in principle, just tighter.
2020/07/12 12:19:12
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
yes but not faction specific and not the engine war warlord traits
What prevent him from the Admech trait?
Engine war specifies no named Characters, but he fits the requirements for codex as an ADEPTUS MECHANICUS CHARACTER.
-Or were you meaning <FORGE WORLD> specific? Because, yeah, he has no forge world.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2020/07/12 17:50:07
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I should also point out that Mechanicum Locus, the stratagem to get a Warlord trait, specifies a <Forge World> Character. Daedalosus has no Forge World, so can't qualify. He also cannot use the Field Commander stratagem to get a specialist detachment trait for 1 CP because it specifies 'not a named character'.
Therefore, he MUST be your Warlord and only has access to the 6 basic Warlord traits and a specialist detachment trait if he's in one.
I'll write them down as they are now from what they were last update (CA19):
UNITS:
Spoiler:
Belisarius Cawl: 200, from 190
Tech-Priest Dominus: 75, from 70
Tech-Priest Manipulus: 70, from 65
Tech-Priest Enginseer: 35, from 30
Kataphron Breachers: 25, from 20
Kataphron Destroyers: 20, from 15
Skitarii Rangers: 9, from 7
Skitarii Vanguards: 9, from 8
Corpuscarii Electro-Priests: 14, from 14
Fulgurite Electro-Priests: 17, from 14
Sicarian Ruststalkers: 14, from 9
Sicarian Infiltrators: 15, from 11
Servitors: 7, from 5
Cybernetica Datasmith: 25, from 22
Kastelan Robots: 80, from 65
Onager Dunecrawler: 115, from 70
Skorpius Disintegrator: 115, from 85
Ironstrider Ballistarii: 35, from 40
Sydonian Dragoons: 60, from 59
Pteraxii Skystalkers: 17, from 15
Pteraxii Sterylizors: 19, from 17
Serberys Raiders: 16, from 14
Serberys Sulphurhounds: 20, from 16
Archeopter Fusilave: 110, from 102
Archeopter Stratoraptor: 70, from 70
Archeopter Transvector: 100, from 92
Skorpius Dunerider: 60, from 65
RANGED WEAPONS (not in alphabetical order sorry, my codex is not in English):
Spoiler:
Transuranic Arquebus: didn't hear the points in the video, the dude skipped it
Twin Cognis Autocannon: 30, from 20
Twin Cognis Lascannon: 40, from 40
Heavy Bolter: 10, from 10
Heavy Grav-cannon: 20, from 24
Plasma Cannon: 15, from 16
Torsion Cannon: 10, from 15
Radium Carbine: 0
Radium Pistol: 0
Radium Jezzail: 0
Galvanic Rifle: 0
Galvanic Carbine: 0
Plasma Culverin: 30, from 27
Plasma Caliver: 10, from 11
Incendince Combustor: 15, from 15
Flechette blaster: 0, from 0
Phosphor blaster: 3, from 6
Heavy Phosphor blaster: 15, from 15
Twin Heavy Phosphor blaster: 0, from 30
Volkite Blaster: 5, from 8
Arc rifle: 5, from 2
Arc pistol: 5, from 1
Heavy Arc Rifle: 5, from 6
Eradication beam: 0, from 30
Eradication ray: 10, from 10
Cognis Flamer: 5, from 7
Neutron Laser: 10, from 35
Macrostubber: 0, from 2
Icarus Array: 0, from 30
Stubber: 0, from 0
Heavy Stubber: 5, from 2
Cognis Heavy Stubber: 5, from 2
Multi-melta: 20, from 22
Laspistol: 0, from 0
Phosphor pistol: 0, from 1
Phosphor blast pistol: 3, from 1
Phosphor blast carbine: 15, from 15
Phosphor flamer stuff: 0, from 0
Archeo revolver: 0, from 2
Sulphur breath: 0, from 0
Belleros energy cannon: 20, from 20
Ferrumite cannon: 25, from 25
Disruptor Missile Launcher: 0, from 0
Magnarail lance: 0, from 0
Transsonic cannon: didn't hear the points in the video, the dude skipped it
Gamma Pistol: 10, from 10
MELEE WEAPONS:
Spoiler:
Electroleech staff: 0, from 0
Electroleech gauntlets: 0, from 0
Arc Claw: 5, from 4
Arc Maul: 5, from 5
Transsonic blades: 0, from 2
Transsonic razors: 0, from 2
Discord Claw: 0, from 0
Power Fist: 10, from 9
Omnissian Axe: 0, from 0
Omnissian Staff: 0, from 0
Taser lance: 10, from 9
Taser Goad: 5, from 4
Hydraulic Claw: 5, from 5
Kastelan Fists: 20, from 20
Servoarm: 0, from 0
Mechadendrites: 0, from 0
Cavalry saber: 0, from 0
Clawed limbs: 0, from 0
Pteraxii claws: 0, from 0
Power Maul: didn't hear the points in the video, the dude skipped it
UTILITY WARGEAR:
Spoiler:
Broad-spectrum data-tether: 0, from 0
Enhanced data-tether: 5, from 5
Chaff Launcher: 20, from 20
Command uplink: 0, from 0
Smoke Launchers: 0, from 0
Omnispex: 5, from 7
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 11:00:26
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2020/07/13 11:08:18
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Well vanilla Serberys Raiders are up from 42 pts to 48, while Sulphurhounds are up from 57 to 68 . The phosphor carbine still costs 15 pts for some reason however. This continues to dig the pit between both units in terms of use sadly :/
Pteraxii Skystalkers are up from 79 to 90, and Sterylizors up from 89 to 100 pts. 11 pts more each for a vanilla squad.
Concerning Dunecrawlers, the Neutron Laser one went from 107 pts to 130, the Icarus from 100 to 115, the Beam one from 100 to 115, and the HPB variant from 100 to 115 too. Comparing to the Disintegrators, it went from 111 pts to 150 for the Belleros variant and 116 pts to 155 for the Ferrumite variant. The comparison between Disintegrators and Dunecrawlers should be reevalauted I feel.
Kastelan Robots get a 15 pts increase/model whatever the variant. I'm sad for the Fist variant as I don't know yet if the changes from 8th to 9th nerf them or buff them yet.
Our Skitarii both at 9 pts each, which is great I think because at last Vanguards become a more interesting alternative to Rangers, but sad when you know Guarsmen stay at 5 pts from what I've read. The Arc Rifles at 5 pts become hard to justify using too, I feel.
Full Arc Breachers change from 30 pts to 35 pts, and Destroyers with plasma + blaster come from 48 pts to 53.
EDIT: miscalculated the points for Sulphurhounds
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 11:33:34
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2020/07/13 11:33:53
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
The sulphurhounds are 60 points base, are they not? 3x20 points. Power maul is ? (I'm guessing 5) points & the blast pistol is another 3 points. I'm guessing they're 68 base.
Edit: I'm getting old and slow apparently
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 11:34:26
2020/07/13 11:34:36
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
PiñaColada wrote: The sulphurhounds are 60 points base, are they not? 3x20 points. Power maul is ? (I'm guessing 5) points & the blast pistol is another 3 points. I'm guessing they're 68 base
Yeah I brainfarted, I edited just before your answer ! My happiness is gone now haha
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
