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The kid drew on officers, they had no choice but to fire. It isn't a great result, but after the kid made his decision it was the only thing they could do.

I really don't understand the cheering vibe I'm getting from the thread though. I figure you don't care for the kid, but do you think the officers are happy about shooting someone? Even if you know you did the right thing, that'd be a pretty crappy situation to go through.

Deadshane1 wrote:Albatross obviously knows NOTHING about gun battles.

That being said....

I am in law enforcement.

If I give you an instruction to lower your weapon and get on the ground, whether it be a gun, squirt gun, or dandelion, if you do anything but move in an unthreatening and compliant manner, you have just taken your own life in your hands.

I'm going home to my family tonight....period. People tend to forget that the police are just as much real people as the people that get shot. The police that stop and try to determine whether "that is a real gun or not" are the ones that wind up dead.

If a cop tells you to do something, comply. If he's in the wrong, sue the city later.

Drop that gun, squirt gun, or dandelion or I will shoot you in the face. I have the badge, do as I tell you. I'm not being a bully, I'm trying to keep order or get to the bottom of whatever is going on. As far as I'm concerned, its my life or yours.

Like I said, I'm going home tonight.

Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Actually the has hit the fan if Deadshane is telling you to comply. Last I remember, he's in the prison system. If true and he's on the street trying to keep order, then Zombie apocalypse is upon us. Time to break out the potato cannon.

(image of Deadshane version of cross between VingRhames and Judge Dredd meeting out justice to the zombies on a permanent basis).


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sebster wrote:The kid drew on officers, they had no choice but to fire. It isn't a great result, but after the kid made his decision it was the only thing they could do.

I really don't understand the cheering vibe I'm getting from the thread though. I figure you don't care for the kid, but do you think the officers are happy about shooting someone? Even if you know you did the right thing, that'd be a pretty crappy situation to go through.

How are you gettig a cheering vibe?

Yeah, I really don't get a cheering vibe here.

Dreadwinter wrote:Yeah, I really don't get a cheering vibe here.

Probably has something to do with the comments about the policemen's marksmanship.

Whatever happened to the old saying, "one shot, one kill"?

Cane wrote:

Dreadwinter wrote:Yeah, I really don't get a cheering vibe here.

Probably has something to do with the comments about the policemen's marksmanship.

Whatever happened to the old saying, "one shot, one kill"?

Just saying they were shooting better than NYPD averages.

One shot-thats sniper work. I prefer the phrase "one scoop per customer," myself. Mmmm ice cream.

ICE CREAM!!!



Politicin' with my cadillac and my Ben and Jerries... OOOOOOoooh Yeah!!!

Im really trying to wrap my head around this as to why somone kid or adult or more WHOEVER would be so utterly stupid to point a weapon at a cop more or less 3. REally what was he hopping to happen, some james bond movie as he jumps through the air firing a hail of bullets and killing all three of the EVIL officers while not getting a scratch. If you run your guilty hands down. If you pull a gun or any weapon on a cop trying to keep the peace and you dont respond to their hails to drop it your a moron who natural selection kicked in with, and you deserve what you get.

One shot, one kill is for snipers. I believe in "shoot until it doesn't move".

I wouldn't doubt a lot of cases like this are in fact suicide by cop. I think it's easier for some people who want to die to get in a situation where a law enforcement officer does it. Maybe they figure it'll be easier consciously (although I think I'd rather put a .45 to my head than get shot a dozen times or more by a 9mm). I think suicide by cop is the cowardly way to be a coward.

I think the articles point was that he was shot 11 times. Either he's a fething He-Man or it was excessive use of force on a perp that had never fired the weapon he was brandishing. I'm not advocating what he did, guy was looking to get shot, but 11 times? In the back, side, and limbs? Thats had to have been more than what was required.


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Dreadwinter wrote:Yeah, I really don't get a cheering vibe here.

I did. It's pretty pronounced on the front page.

He was shot in the back by the officers he was pointing the gun at. The logical conclusion is that he is double-jointed and has eyes in the back of his head. What's not to understand?

ShumaGorath wrote:I think the articles point was that he was shot 11 times. Either he's a fething He-Man or it was excessive use of force on a perp that had never fired the weapon he was brandishing. I'm not advocating what he did, guy was looking to get shot, but 11 times? In the back, side, and limbs? Thats had to have been more than what was required.

Again thats really common. You're also forgetting ricochets. Since the Valentine's Day massacre ricochet hits have been making autopsies interesting.
The one shot thing really is Hollywood. Not going to drag out morgue pics though, its pretty gross. Saw one of a guy in a shootout had been hit over a dozen times before incapacitated (wounded two-three cops in process) He had like four hits in the foot. Ichy!

Well, at least I know never to bring Dandelions to Deadshanes birthday party

lord_blackfang wrote:He was shot in the back by the officers he was pointing the gun at. The logical conclusion is that he is double-jointed and has eyes in the back of his head. What's not to understand?

Sigh. DOn't forget one or two.
1. Bullets hit wall and bounce into him. (aka Valentine's Day massacre).
Or
2.They are firing and he spins as he's getting hit.
Or
3. He's an alien with eyes in the back of his head. I hate those four eyed aliens. They've been getting uppity lately.

Man even I know that people go spinning like crazy when hit by bullets, and my total experience with guns is learning about it from an ex UK Army Sniper while on a Field Trip to Belgium when I was 12.

Oh, and he passed a Grenade about for us to look at. Ahhh, good times.

Frazzled wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I think the articles point was that he was shot 11 times. Either he's a fething He-Man or it was excessive use of force on a perp that had never fired the weapon he was brandishing. I'm not advocating what he did, guy was looking to get shot, but 11 times? In the back, side, and limbs? Thats had to have been more than what was required.

Again thats really common. You're also forgetting ricochets. Since the Valentine's Day massacre ricochet hits have been making autopsies interesting.
The one shot thing really is Hollywood. Not going to drag out morgue pics though, its pretty gross. Saw one of a guy in a shootout had been hit over a dozen times before incapacitated (wounded two-three cops in process) He had like four hits in the foot. Ichy!

I am not sure I understand why 11 shots killing this guy, is any different than 3 shots killing this guy. If someone is about to shoot you in the face, and you have a gun with a full clip, along with another person with a full clip; as Frazzled said, that takes about 3 seconds to unload. 3 seconds is nothing, it is the difference between being hit by a car, and not being hit.

There have been instances where excessive force was involved (namely the Mehserle case), more often than not though, it really does come down to kill or be killed. The day that cops start to use frag grenades to take down purse thieves, is the day that I begin to have the same paranoia as all the other anti-cop lefties. If these cops had a serious alternative, perhaps they could have handled it differently. As it stands, non-lethal weapons are pretty hit or miss; usually coming down to one shot. A firearm is really the best of both worlds, handguns of course being the best compromise. I really do not want regular cops walking around with sub-machine guns, and in most cases they do not do so.

If you fire at a threat in a gun battle, you dont take a single shot and then decide if it was effective.

You fire until the target is no longer a threat. (I.E. dead)

I can probably empty an entire magazine of 12 rounds (plus one up the pipe that I always carry) into you in around 5 seconds with relative accuracy if the range is close.

It may take you a couple of seconds to hit the ground. Barring a headshot. Once you're on the ground and not moving...you're no longer a threat to MY life. Thats when I quit.

Accessive would be me reloading, walking up to you, and making sure that the "jobs a good 'un" with another 12 rounds.

If you Draw a weapon (or dandelion) on me, you can fully expect A MINIMUM of 6-8 rounds thrown in your direction. Thats if you hit the ground quickly...like after an initial headshot. I wont be aiming for the head either. I'll be aiming for center mass and a headshot will be a lucky break on my part.

If I clip you in the arm and you go spinning, I'm not going to stop shooting so that I dont hit you in the back.

@Shuma-no it absolutly was not accessive force. If you had a family member or you yourself were in law enforcement, I think you'd be singing a different tune.

SWMBO is trained to empty the clip into the BG, then reload while running over them with the vehicle. Of course Rule #7 is double tap, so she has to back over them as well.
Vehicle wise, I told her just to think of a BG as a curb. (looks over should, yep all clear)
She'll definitely run him over then...

Frazzled wrote:SWMBO is trained to empty the clip into the BG, then reload while running over them with the vehicle. Of course Rule #7 is double tap, so she has to back over them as well.
Vehicle wise, I told her just to think of a BG as a curb. (looks over should, yep all clear)
She'll definitely run him over then...

I've been there.

SWMBO: Is it strait?
Me: Yes, [you got him].
SWMBO: I'll just straiten it up a bit. *reverse*[splat!]...

[time passes]

...I'll just bring the back end in a little *reverse* [splat!]

I think there's some ninja school where they train.

Like all these other cases where we get all exercised about whether it was right or wrong, we ought to review the historical data on police shootings.

Maybe there are hundreds across the USA every year, and very few of them involve error of the police in shooting someone innocent.

In the UK the number of shootings done by police is quite low, so the mistaken ones stand out. Possibly they would be within the margin of statistical error.

I wouldn't want to put percentages on these things without doing some proper research.

Ok now Im pulling this card cause well it's to prove a point. If you have ever been in a firefight(or multiples for that matter) raise your hand MEMEMEMEME. I am a soldier and GRANTED fighting a war is a little different my point will be the same. Yes some may say it is excessive, BUT the fact is when your in that situation your training and your fight or flight kicks in. Those cops I garuntee have never had somone not respond to them as most people surrender very quickly so as to not end up like that kid. They may have kept shooting but I have to say it was more out of fear/adreniline that they did this, and took several seconds to realize that their training had fully kicked in and they stopped. Now that said I was not their, but in the end the point is the same. These guys did what we pay them to do and have trained them to do. That young boy is still dead and until the zombiepocolypse comes will remain so. The kid was wrong for running first off and then pointing a weapon. I for one think these guys should recieve medals and praise for doing their jobs.

George Spiggott wrote:

Frazzled wrote:SWMBO is trained to empty the clip into the BG, then reload while running over them with the vehicle. Of course Rule #7 is double tap, so she has to back over them as well.
Vehicle wise, I told her just to think of a BG as a curb. (looks over should, yep all clear)
She'll definitely run him over then...

I've been there.

SWMBO: Is it strait?
Me: Yes, [you got him].
SWMBO: I'll just straiten it up a bit. *reverse*[splat!]...

[time passes]

...I'll just bring the back end in a little *reverse* [splat!]

I think there's some ninja school where they train.

Remember, to some, curbs are merely guidelines.

In New York all traffic rules are more like guidelines.

Albatross obviously knows NOTHING about gun battles.

That being said....

I am in law enforcement.

If I give you an instruction to lower your weapon and get on the ground, whether it be a gun, squirt gun, or dandelion, if you do anything but move in an unthreatening and compliant manner, you have just taken your own life in your hands.

I'm going home to my family tonight....period. People tend to forget that the police are just as much real people as the people that get shot. The police that stop and try to determine whether "that is a real gun or not" are the ones that wind up dead.

If a cop tells you to do something, comply. If he's in the wrong, sue the city later.

Drop that gun, squirt gun, or dandelion or I will shoot you in the face. I have the badge, do as I tell you. I'm not being a bully, I'm trying to keep order or get to the bottom of whatever is going on. As far as I'm concerned, its my life or yours.

Like I said, I'm going home tonight.

Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Wow. Way to not conform to white american stereotypes there, champ. How can people criticise the UK's so-called 'Big Brother' methods of law-enforcement, and prefer the above? That blows my mind. I would rather forfeit (some of) my privacy, than forfeit my life.
@Deadshane - I may not have been in a firefight, but as far as I'm concerned people who think the way you seem to don't deserve to hold the power of life and death over another human being.

Kilkrazy wrote:In New York all traffic rules are more like guidelines.

I thought in NY it was hit a building or run off a bridge then you lose, otherwise continue game play?

You do realise that the National American Association of Stereotyping have Deadshane as their Mascot and CFO?

Albatross wrote:

Albatross obviously knows NOTHING about gun battles.

That being said....

I am in law enforcement.

If I give you an instruction to lower your weapon and get on the ground, whether it be a gun, squirt gun, or dandelion, if you do anything but move in an unthreatening and compliant manner, you have just taken your own life in your hands.

I'm going home to my family tonight....period. People tend to forget that the police are just as much real people as the people that get shot. The police that stop and try to determine whether "that is a real gun or not" are the ones that wind up dead.

If a cop tells you to do something, comply. If he's in the wrong, sue the city later.

Drop that gun, squirt gun, or dandelion or I will shoot you in the face. I have the badge, do as I tell you. I'm not being a bully, I'm trying to keep order or get to the bottom of whatever is going on. As far as I'm concerned, its my life or yours.

Like I said, I'm going home tonight.

Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Wow. Way to not conform to white american stereotypes there, champ. How can people criticise the UK's so-called 'Big Brother' methods of law-enforcement, and prefer the above? That blows my mind. I would rather forfeit (some of) my privacy, than forfeit my life.
@Deadshane - I may not have been in a firefight, but as far as I'm concerned people who think the way you seem to don't deserve to hold the power of life and death over another human being.

Wait what does his statement have to do with privacy? Why are you brining iracism into this? He's saying if you pull a gun on an armed cop you die. I'd take that as a maxim anywhere there's an armed cop.
What does his statement have to do with a firefight-you're getting posters mixed up. Thats the first sign Albatross, welcome to Frazzled little house of Alzheimer/drunken posting. Here's your button and I'll see you at the meeting. Your next stage will be to peruse some sites and be called commie pig, and other site and be called a fascist.

I like Deadshane1.

@Frazzled - he said I don't know anything about gun-battles. Which is true - thank feth!
He wasn't just saying 'pull a gun on an armed cop and you die' - I actually agree with the sentiment of that particular statement. He actually said words to the effect of:'gun or no gun - I will kill you if you do not obey my instructions' - a statement which has no place in a civilised society IMO. I was saying that I prefer the UK's much maligned CCTV system to the style of law enforcement he espouses. As for the 'racism' thing... I hear 'white-on-white' racism is on the increase.

This thread needs more Cowbell.

Then the cops won't shoot it!


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Albatross wrote:@Frazzled - he said I don't know anything about gun-battles. Which is true - thank feth!
He wasn't just saying 'pull a gun on an armed cop and you die' - I actually agree with the sentiment of that particular statement. He actually said words to the effect of:'gun or no gun - I will kill you if you do not obey my instructions' - a statement which has no place in a civilised society IMO. I was saying that I prefer the UK's much maligned CCTV system to the style of law enforcement he espouses. As for the 'racism' thing... I hear 'white-on-white' racism is on the increase.

TBH, if you are in law enforcement, and you think the dude had a gun, you are more than entitled to say "STFU and Get on the Floor Now or I cap you". Especially in the US, where they KNOW the Police have guns (in the UK it's kind of a craps shoot), if they say "Get on the floor now or I cap you", you Get on the fething floor!

Albatross wrote:@Frazzled - he said I don't know anything about gun-battles. Which is true - thank feth!
He wasn't just saying 'pull a gun on an armed cop and you die' - I actually agree with the sentiment of that particular statement. He actually said words to the effect of:'gun or no gun - I will kill you if you do not obey my instructions' - a statement which has no place in a civilised society IMO. I was saying that I prefer the UK's much maligned CCTV system to the style of law enforcement he espouses. As for the 'racism' thing... I hear 'white-on-white' racism is on the increase.

No I think he has an irrational fear of dandelions myself. Have you seen dandelions? They are the Hells Angels of the flower world...

Gwar si correct although 9 out of 10 posts need more cowbell.