The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......

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**sebster**

Fateweaver wrote:Okay, but when is it time to make a judgement call?

The officer has to make the decision to the best of his ability, weighing his life and the lives of other civilians in the area against the chance of killing someone who doesn't present a threat, and then using all known evidence to. Sometimes he'll make the right call (as in shooting the kid in the OP), sometimes he'll make the wrong call. Sometimes the wrong call will be reasonable, and sometimes it won't (the case of Diallo fits both, as the officers were found to have acted reasonable in criminal proceedings but not in civil ones).

As I've said a bunch of times in this thread, it's a hard thing to do. The answer is not to accept any and all police shootings as legitimate.

It's easy to say the cops were trigger happy

It is? How easy? I wouldn't know because I didn't say that.

You've got to stop assuming the other person's argument and actually read what they say.

**Vulcan**

Fateweaver wrote:Okay, but when is it time to make a judgement call?

When you see a man (doesn't have to be the dude in the article) reaching into his pocket and firing before he pulls out whatver he reached for thus saving your life or that of a fellow officer

OR

waiting to see what the person pulls out of their pocket and then making the judgement call. Guess which one 9 times out of 10 will let you go home to your family at the end of your shift? Let me give you a hint: it's not the 2nd answer.

It's easy to say the cops were trigger happy but if you are willing to let a person reach a hand into a hidden pocket and withdraw it totally JUST to make sure there isn't a gun involved than you would have a very short life on the force. I'm sure most times it's not like "chariots of fire" or "matrix" bullet time where the perp spends 3 minutes reaching into his pocket and withdrawing.

Heck, if it's a jacket or coat pocket, he can shoot before he gets the gun out of his pocket. BANG. Dead cop. Or the cop shoots first when the guy sticks his hand in his pocket and risks being wrong... but is still alive.

**Albatross**

Heck, if it's a jacket or coat pocket, he can shoot before he gets the gun out of his pocket. BANG. Dead cop. Or the cop shoots first when the guy sticks his hand in his pocket and risks being wrong... but is still alive.

Yeah, and this sort of paranoia leads to people losing their lives. Life is not cheap, nor should it be considered so. Have you considered that the same paranoia could be what drives criminals to pull guns on cops? Life is not just 'black and white' - there are no 'good-guys and bad-guys', with nothing in between. There are shades of grey.

**youbedead**

I think the peolpe who keep arguing with seb need to read his posts, hes agreeing with you.

Cops should make decisions to the best of thier ability using available knowledge to protect themselves and other, unfortunately like all humans occasionally the decisions were wrong that does not make them monsters nor does it exonerate every shooting

**Orkeosaurus**

Albatross wrote:
Heck, if it's a jacket or coat pocket, he can shoot before he gets the gun out of his pocket. BANG. Dead cop. Or the cop shoots first when the guy sticks his hand in his pocket and risks being wrong... but is still alive.

Yeah, and this sort of paranoia leads to people losing their lives. Life is not cheap, nor should it be considered so. Have you considered that the same paranoia could be what drives criminals to pull guns on cops? Life is not just 'black and white' - there are no 'good-guys and bad-guys', with nothing in between. There are shades of grey.

Cops shoot people who put their hands in their pockets, so criminals try and grab guns from their pockets to shoot the cop who will only shoot them in the first place if they put their hand in their pocket?

**Albatross**

@Orkeosaurus - No, I meant that criminals go tooled up because they percieve cops as being trigger-happy. But it's a vicious circle, really.

**Wrexasaur**

I highly doubt that the police fire as many rounds on average compared to a gun toting maniac with a bone to pick...

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least a dozen reasons, and situations where shooting first is exactly what a cop should do. I do agree however that the idea that it is always okay to just go out guns blazing at the slightest, most inane hint of a 'weapon'... or a tissue, and a hearing aid.

Mistakes happen, but there are an awful lot of ways to avoid that in the first place, and on average, most people do not have a gun. Even if some do, the chances of someone panicking after being confronted by a police officer, are relatively high. Saying that every single person that panics around a cop is asking to get shot, is actually quite scary to be entirely honest.

**Albatross**

@Wrex - Exactly! To shoot first IS justified in some cases - to say 'oh well, he reached into his pocket - he was asking for it...' is a bit harsh, especially when an innocent person loses their life.

**JohnHwangDD**

Wrexasaur wrote:I highly doubt that the police fire as many rounds on average compared to a gun toting maniac with a bone to pick...

Ain't that the truth.

In Washington State, some gun-toting maniac dropped 3 on-duty uniformed cops and only the 4th managed to squeeze off any rounds at all before he was taken out.

It's too bad not one of them saw him drawing reflect in the glass...

**Wraith of Ages**

Kilkrazy wrote:A guy in London got shot for carrying a chair leg.

thats happened more than once. the better one was when he had a water pistol. one person was even shot when he had a supa soaka!!!