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Albatross wrote:
Boo! Fixing stuff to boats? Boring....

Yeah, us Brits have no sense of fun

@J - Exactly mate - a weapon's not a weapon unless you can wave it around your head! Any Nob knows dat!

NWA tells me other wise! #@$% the police!

Imperialescortservice wrote:NWA tells me other wise! #@$% the police!

agreed, and albatross you can take it or leave it, but I feel that a solid point has been made overall as you were sitting their telling us about how crazy our police are for shooting the fella with the wallet when he didnt speak english. When in the end it had nothing to do with the thread and what it was started for. It was started over the little fella who pulled a gun on the cops not on the guy who had a wallet in his hands, and btw if you want to attack grammer what have you reap what you sell chap. It is a weak arguement that they teach you about in debate classes in college. It is used when you have no other legit "attack" on somone. Really as an open forum you have the right to say whatever you want hence why it is an open FORUM. Me personally I presented information that I learned from my counterparts across the pond and as if this was a court room used it to more prove a point. Truthfully I agree a desert eagle is one of the worst weapons ever made, and I have no ideas why the isrealis(however it's spelled) made it to be honest, but I was getting annoyed that you kept bringing up the stupid wallet point when that wasn't even what the thread was on. Talking about how cowboy(my words) american cops are, so when I recieved this info I figured hey why not use it as more of a taste of ones own medicine and in some levels discredit my oponent in this debate. So that said take it however you will, but remember this is just a forum and using swear words from a book series, however great it is, is rather well disapointing. That said I had a lovely thanksgiving

Wall...of...text...

QUOTE TENNIS!

agreed, and albatross you can take it or leave it, but I feel that a solid point has been made overall as you were sitting their telling us about how crazy our police are for shooting the fella with the wallet when he didnt speak english. When in the end it had nothing to do with the thread and what it was started for. It was started over the little fella who pulled a gun on the cops not on the guy who had a wallet in his hands

I know - but the article posted mentioned Amadou Diallo. And the thread has evolved into a general 'cops shooting civilians - is it justified?' sort of thread - it's not even massively OT to talk about Diallo in the ORIGINAL context of the thread, IMO.

and btw if you want to attack grammer what have you reap what you sell chap.

What do you think folks? Should mention it? Nah... too much of a cheap shot.

It is used when you have no other legit "attack" on somone. Really as an open forum you have the right to say whatever you want hence why it is an open FORUM. Me personally I presented information that I learned from my counterparts across the pond and as if this was a court room used it to more prove a point.

Which was what? That almost all British Police officers had Desert Eagles for 4-5 years? You presented it like you had some sort of killer argument that was going to 'discredit' me - if you take that attitude don't be surprised if I take the piss out of you for being wrong. I wouldn't have mocked you if you had just asked if anyone knew if it was true. Also, I'm confused as to where you got this info - was it from British servicemen or an guns/ammo website? IIRC, you said both.

when I recieved this info I figured hey why not use it as more of a taste of ones own medicine and in some levels discredit my oponent in this debate.

See above. You are not 'my opponent' in this debate. It's an open forum for people to share views.

I was getting annoyed that you kept bringing up the stupid wallet point when that wasn't even what the thread was on.

Not my problem. An innocent man died, suck it up. How do you think his family feels?

this is just a forum and using swear words from a book series, however great it is, is rather well disapointing.

Erm...what? You've lost me. Which book series?

That said I had a lovely thanksgiving

Glad to hear it!

Empchild wrote:
agreed, and albatross you can take it or leave it, but I feel that a solid point has been made overall as you were sitting their telling us about how crazy our police are for shooting the fella with the wallet when he didnt speak english. When in the end it had nothing to do with the thread and what it was started for. It was started over the little fella who pulled a gun on the cops not on the guy who had a wallet in his hands, and btw if you want to attack grammer what have you reap what you sell chap. It is a weak arguement that they teach you about in debate classes in college. It is used when you have no other legit "attack" on somone. Really as an open forum you have the right to say whatever you want hence why it is an open FORUM. Me personally I presented information that I learned from my counterparts across the pond and as if this was a court room used it to more prove a point. Truthfully I agree a desert eagle is one of the worst weapons ever made, and I have no ideas why the isrealis(however it's spelled) made it to be honest, but I was getting annoyed that you kept bringing up the stupid wallet point when that wasn't even what the thread was on. Talking about how cowboy(my words) american cops are, so when I recieved this info I figured hey why not use it as more of a taste of ones own medicine and in some levels discredit my oponent in this debate. So that said take it however you will, but remember this is just a forum and using swear words from a book series, however great it is, is rather well disapointing. That said I had a lovely thanksgiving

I trust that these 'debate classes' also taught you about making your point in a way that in comprehensible to your fellow debaters? I don't think Albatross was flaming you for being rubbish at writing, merely pointing out that if you wish people to take you seriously; you have to make sense.

Also, the point of a debate is not to 'win' or 'attack' other people, it's to further your understanding and advance a groups knowledge.

Glad you enjoyed Thanksgiving Is that kinda equivalent to Christmas (our biggest holiday)in the UK?

I recieved the info from servicemen, as part of a private forum from which I am a part of. I am not now nor have I ever been part of a guns and ammo forum what I work from is for my job, which is ammunition. The point of a debate (here in the states granted I don't know how other countries treat it) is to win. By instilling ones point across in a arguement and getting the populace to see things in your light is what it breaks down too. Please remember that their are many international divides here as to you constantly saying " piss" in the states means well not saying, but thankfully I know some of your countrys slang so I understand what you mean, but most people probably don't. Also I was refering to the gaunts ghost series as you continually say "feth". Oo I like soccer care less about tennis. Also baseball is a blast to kick back with a beer and watch too.

Technically this isn't a debate it's a discussion or argument. Debates are formal.

Empchild wrote:Also I was refering to the gaunts ghost series as you continually say "feth"

Some common swear-words and other vulgarities are auto-censored here.

I'm surprised anyone would fail to notice that. We need a fething sign on the registration page or something.

Empchild wrote:I recieved the info from servicemen, as part of a private forum from which I am a part of. I am not now nor have I ever been part of a guns and ammo forum what I work from is for my job, which is ammunition.

Fair enough, but please don't present something that amounts to hearsay as actual fact. No-one is going to mind if you ask for a clarification

The point of a debate (here in the states granted I don't know how other countries treat it) is to win. By instilling ones point across in a arguement and getting the populace to see things in your light is what it breaks down too.

As Shuma says. This is not really a debate with formal rules and/or goals. It is simply people kicking some ideas around.

you continually say "feth".

You are aware of the swear filter, yes?

did not realize the swear filters as well, I never swear on a forum. Honestly I try not to swear in general as it does little to bring a point across. Also have never played cricket which is interesting as almost all of my family is from the land down under. I just know theirs something called a bowler.

Empchild wrote: I just know theirs something called a bowler.

Yeah, there's batters and fielders too... More importantly, there's a Bar near your seat

@Mods: Are we OT yet?

@Emp
Ok, fair point about the 'Guns and Ammo forum' - crossed wires, sorry.

'Quote-tennis' is what we're playing right now - I dislike real tennis.

'Piss' means the same thing in the UK. 'Taking the Piss' means 'Mocking or making fun of', for those of you who don't know. It's the UK's national pastime, as some of you may have noticed.

Empchild wrote:did not realize the swear filters as well, I never swear on a forum. Honestly I try not to swear in general as it does little to bring a point across. Also have never played cricket which is interesting as almost all of my family is from the land down under. I just know theirs something called a bowler.

Strangely, I would never swear in this forum until I realized it all filtered. Now I say feth all the fething time. It's funny how simply changing the word itself makes it ok, even when everyone knows that I'm fething swearing.

Ain't THAT the fething truth?

feth feth feth feth..... feth.. oo ya guns ammo, and cops killing their I stayed on topic

Empchild wrote:feth feth feth feth..... feth.. oo ya guns ammo, and cops killing their I stayed on topic

Remember two pages back when I said this thread should be locked?

Why DID the topic go from a moron who thought he could Keanu Reeves his way out of a gunfight with 3 cops to some dude being a moron still and getting shot when all he pulled out was a wallet?

I think this thread has gone far as it has to unless someone has something good to add (I don't).

Do you know what that is? That is the end of the thread... right there... there you go.

Happy thanksgiving yall.

Kilkrazy wrote:There is more genetic difference between a man and his wife than there is between the same man and a Uighur man or Congolese pygmy or Trobriand Islander.

I think all married men or adult men in general can confirm that.

I think most married men can also confirm that there is more difference between an unmarried woman on the hunt and a married woman than the various races noted above.

Fraz?

Could you please treat this thread like a youngster who has trespassed on your lawn?



I think it has passed its prime.

Ooh, M1 Garand. Nerdgasm.

Empchild wrote:So this week I was bored at work a bit since holidays and what have you, and I decided to get in contact with some of my counterparts in different militarys what not. Interesting thing I learned and I bring this up to totally discredit albatross is that for 4-5 years almost all bobbys (I think their called over in there in the UK either) or COPS carried as standard issue desert eagles .50cal's. . This was their first issue weapon once they finally were allowed to carry firearms. Of coarse because of the kill rate after almost 5 years your parliament decided to replace these weapons with 9mm. Hrmm and he says our cops are bad. I Picked this up off a private ammunition forum from some british soldiers.

This is the most beautiful thing I've ever read.

This is why we should be very hesitant to kill threads, you never know what's going to appear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fateweaver wrote:Why DID the topic go from a moron who thought he could Keanu Reeves his way out of a gunfight with 3 cops to some dude being a moron still and getting shot when all he pulled out was a wallet?

It was mentioned in the original article.

And no, many people who aren't morons will run away when four non-uniformed men with guns pile out of a car and run towards you. When cornered, it is logical to give them your wallet. But cheers for blaming the dead guy of a tragic incident.

Yes, because apparently 4 men identifying themselves as cops was somehow lost in translation, um or something and that reaching into a hidden pocket is ALWAYS a smart thing to do when cops have a gun drawn without first declaring your intention to do so.

I'm so glad you can sleep soundly at night without fear of dying in the line of duty (since I'm 99% certain you aren't a cop Seb).

Fateweaver wrote:Yes, because apparently 4 men identifying themselves as cops was somehow lost in translation, um or something and that reaching into a hidden pocket is ALWAYS a smart thing to do when cops have a gun drawn without first declaring your intention to do so.

You can accept that in a chaotic situation several people, officers and Amadou Diallo alike, made errors and it escalated into tragedy. Or you can live in a world where people in uniform never, ever do anything wrong and only bad or stupid people ever get shot by policemen.

I'm so glad you can sleep soundly at night without fear of dying in the line of duty (since I'm 99% certain you aren't a cop Seb).

No, I'm not. I have pointed out several times in this thread and in many other threads that policing is a very hard job, but that's exactly why we demand a high standard of our policemen. The absolute statements made in this thread utterly fail as they remove decision making ability from police officers, and turn them into scared idiots with guns. Yes, cops make tough choices and they have a split second to make them, but that doesn't make every shooting justifiable.

sebster wrote:It also has to be recognised that the police are a lot more polite and a lot easier to get along with when they're in low crime areas. This is not a sleight on the police, in more dangerous areas they have to be more aggressive in order to maintain authority, but it does mean that if you live in the wrong area police will be more aggressive even if you've never broken the law.

And more importantly, it has to be recognised that if you live in the wrong area it is a lot more likely that you'll end up in a situation where policemen will be pointing a gun at you, and you might accidentally do something that ends up with you getting shot. It is perfectly sensible for police to patrol more aggressively in high crime areas, but it does mean that innocent people will end up on the wrong end of that aggression sometimes.

It is all, as you say, that simple.

I have a friend who was a cop in a high-crime area. And do you know what? Not one single person he ever dealt with there was ever polite to him. Ever.

My friend might be a cop, but when people aren't going out of their way to rile him up he's actually a pretty easygoing guy. The people of Crime (Pine) Lawn - the suburb where he worked at - just never gave him a chance to show that side to them.

They might find the cops a lot less probematic if they'd just, y'know, say "Hi!" rather than "F#ck you, pig!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Wrexasaur wrote:There is only ignorance and subspecies,

I think all modern humans are actually the same subspecies.

From what I've been hearing lately, genetically all humans are vastly more similar than any two random dogs. We're very genetically similar - almost dangerously so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sebster wrote:The absolute statements made in this thread utterly fail as they remove decision making ability from police officers, and turn them into scared idiots with guns. Yes, cops make tough choices and they have a split second to make them, but that doesn't make every shooting justifiable.

I'd love to hear you describe my cop friend as a 'scared idiot with a gun' to his face. His response would be... memorable.

On a more serious note... there are two types of cops. The ones who who aren't trained to shoot when a probable threat presents itself... and the live ones.

Vulcan wrote:I have a friend who was a cop in a high-crime area. And do you know what? Not one single person he ever dealt with there was ever polite to him. Ever.

My friend might be a cop, but when people aren't going out of their way to rile him up he's actually a pretty easygoing guy. The people of Crime (Pine) Lawn - the suburb where he worked at - just never gave him a chance to show that side to them.

They might find the cops a lot less probematic if they'd just, y'know, say "Hi!" rather than "F#ck you, pig!"

Yeah, the environment is more confrontational and more dangerous, so the cops are by necessity more aggressive to maintain their authority. This is necessary, but also means that the people who aren't aggressive towards cops will be dealt with more harshly than a guy in a wealthy, relatively crime free suburb.

It's a very basic thing, there are no unmarked police cars despatched to rich suburbs to cruise for potential criminals. What happened to Amadou Diallo simply would not happen if he could afford to live in a nicer area.

I'd love to hear you describe my cop friend as a 'scared idiot with a gun' to his face. His response would be... memorable.

You've misunderstood. I'm saying cops are trained professional with the ability to use judgement to decide how much force is necessary, and I'm holding them to that standard. The people attempting to defend every possible police shooting are treating cops as scared idiots with guns.

On a more serious note... there are two types of cops. The ones who who aren't trained to shoot when a probable threat presents itself... and the live ones.

The issue is about assessing what is and isn't a probably threat, and accepting the reality that a policeman will not always make a good call. This goes under the category of 'things that aren't rocket science'.

Okay, but when is it time to make a judgement call?

When you see a man (doesn't have to be the dude in the article) reaching into his pocket and firing before he pulls out whatver he reached for thus saving your life or that of a fellow officer

OR

waiting to see what the person pulls out of their pocket and then making the judgement call. Guess which one 9 times out of 10 will let you go home to your family at the end of your shift? Let me give you a hint: it's not the 2nd answer.

It's easy to say the cops were trigger happy but if you are willing to let a person reach a hand into a hidden pocket and withdraw it totally JUST to make sure there isn't a gun involved than you would have a very short life on the force. I'm sure most times it's not like "chariots of fire" or "matrix" bullet time where the perp spends 3 minutes reaching into his pocket and withdrawing.