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2009/11/24 22:38:52
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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Jumping to conclusions? Whats aqquitted mean to you?
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2009/11/24 22:40:46
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Huge Bone Giant
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Does the name make the posts qualify as irony, or just absurdity?
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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2009/11/24 22:46:18
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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fire4effekt wrote:Jumping to conclusions? Whats aqquitted mean to you?
What does he turned and pointed a gun at armed officers after being told to stop and drop mean to you?
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/24 22:53:27
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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And what of the other two examples presented on the AP report?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
People who point guns get shot, people who are are black, also get shot.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/24 22:54:05
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2009/11/24 23:06:13
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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What of them? Deadshane already made note that when you respond to officers in a threatening manner (and reaching into your pants or jacket is construed as a threatening action) you will get shot. Cops don't wait around to make sure you have a gun. If they did chances are that some wife and children won't see their dad ever again (or husband and kids).
Ah yes. The race card. I knew it was only a matter of time before that came into play.
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/24 23:21:59
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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I think you guys are mixing up the wallet guy and the gun guy.
I think Orkeosaurus is right. As usual. 
Yeah, I wasn't talking about the numbskull who pointed a gun at armed police offers - I was talking about Amadou Diallo, a foreign national who was standing unarmed on his front step and got slotted for looking suspicious, basically. The cops claimed they thought he may have been a mugger or a rapist - I wonder why?
Ah yes. The race card. I knew it was only a matter of time before that came into play.
See above. Diallo would still be alive if he was white, in all probability.
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 Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/24 23:29:22
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yes, because everyone knows white cops have it out for black people. If it had been a white guy pointing a gun at cops they wouldn't have shot at him. It is so clear to me now.
No, not really.
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/24 23:36:58
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Fateweaver wrote:Yes, because everyone knows white cops have it out for black people. If it had been a white guy pointing a gun at cops they wouldn't have shot at him. It is so clear to me now.
No, not really.
Obviously it is not.....
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2009/11/24 23:51:17
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Fixture of Dakka
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Albatross wrote:Albatross obviously knows NOTHING about gun battles.
That being said....
I am in law enforcement.
If I give you an instruction to lower your weapon and get on the ground, whether it be a gun, squirt gun, or dandelion, if you do anything but move in an unthreatening and compliant manner, you have just taken your own life in your hands.
I'm going home to my family tonight....period. People tend to forget that the police are just as much real people as the people that get shot. The police that stop and try to determine whether "that is a real gun or not" are the ones that wind up dead.
If a cop tells you to do something, comply. If he's in the wrong, sue the city later.
Drop that gun, squirt gun, or dandelion or I will shoot you in the face. I have the badge, do as I tell you. I'm not being a bully, I'm trying to keep order or get to the bottom of whatever is going on. As far as I'm concerned, its my life or yours.
Like I said, I'm going home tonight.
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Wow. Way to not conform to white american stereotypes there, champ. How can people criticise the UK's so-called 'Big Brother' methods of law-enforcement, and prefer the above? That blows my mind. I would rather forfeit (some of) my privacy, than forfeit my life.
@Deadshane - I may not have been in a firefight, but as far as I'm concerned people who think the way you seem to don't deserve to hold the power of life and death over another human being.
The three cops didn't decide the kid needed to die.
The kid decided he was going to die by a) running, and then b) pulling out a gun, and then c) starting to turn and point the gun at the three cops. A three-step process demonstrating either a death wish or a total lack of intelligence.
So the three cops spend three seconds (the same three seconds, not cop 1 shoots for 3 seconds, then cop 2, then cop 3) firing as fast as they can. 40 rounds go downrange, 11 hit the target. He was dead before he hit the ground... which was the only way the cops could be sure he wasn't going to be shooting at them.
Sure, I feel a little sorry for the kid's parents... but then, they failed to intill in him a respect for the authorities, not to mention respect for the law, so even that much is tempered.
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CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. |
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2009/11/24 23:54:01
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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I know I'm a little late to this thread, but I'm not seeing how these two statements corroborate each other....
A teenager killed in a confrontation with New York City police over the weekend was shot 11 times, the medical examiner's office said Sunday.
three gunshot wounds in the middle of his back, five in his right side and three on his left side
He then turned and pointed a 9mm semiautomatic pistol at them, Browne said.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/11/25 00:07:44
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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It's not too impossible.
Say his back is to the cops. He holds the gun in his right hand. He turns 270 degrees, so that his profile is slimmer and his gun is pointed at the officers. The first five shots go into his right side. Now being shot, he continues to turn as he was doing before, landing another three in his back (after a 90 degree turn), and another three in his left side (after a second 90 degree turn).
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
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2009/11/25 00:12:04
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Dreadwinter wrote:Fateweaver wrote:Yes, because everyone knows white cops have it out for black people. If it had been a white guy pointing a gun at cops they wouldn't have shot at him. It is so clear to me now.
No, not really.
Obviously it is not.....
Explain to me how him being black was the reason he got shot. I mean, apparently it doesn't matter that he pointed a gun at cops after being told to stop.
I really am clueless as to how him being a minority meant him getting killed for the same exact reason a white kid would have gotten killed. Enlighten me as to why this is suddenly a race issue and no longer "I have a death wish" issue.
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/25 00:14:18
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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Yes, because everyone knows white cops have it out for black people. If it had been a white guy pointing a gun at cops they wouldn't have shot at him. It is so clear to me now.
No, not really.
FOR THE LAST fething TIME! I am NOT referring to the kid who pointed the gun at the cops - I don't know what skin-colour he had!
I am referring to a different case in which an unarmed black man was shot dead by police officers in NY. His name was Amadou Diallo. Look it up.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/25 00:15:08
Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/25 00:17:08
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Albatross wrote:Yes, because everyone knows white cops have it out for black people. If it had been a white guy pointing a gun at cops they wouldn't have shot at him. It is so clear to me now.
No, not really.
FOR THE LAST fething TIME! I am NOT referring to the kid who pointed the gun at the cops - I don't know what skin-colour he had!
I am referring to a different case in which an unarmed black man was shot dead by police officers in NY. His name was Amadou Diallo. Look it up.
Unarmed? You should really read the article the OP linked to man, he had a 9mm.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
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2009/11/25 00:24:04
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Albatross wrote:Yes, because everyone knows white cops have it out for black people. If it had been a white guy pointing a gun at cops they wouldn't have shot at him. It is so clear to me now.
No, not really.
FOR THE LAST fething TIME! I am NOT referring to the kid who pointed the gun at the cops - I don't know what skin-colour he had!
I am referring to a different case in which an unarmed black man was shot dead by police officers in NY. His name was Amadou Diallo. Look it up.
Ah okay, but we've gone over this. When the cops tell you to stop what the feth you are doing and put hands up or get on your knees, if you act in such a way as to be construed as threatening (and reaching into your jacket or pants WILL be construed as threatening) you will be shot or tased or whatever the cop happens to be pointing at you.
I'm sure Deadshane would really love to be told to his face after shooting an unarmed black man acting in a threatening manner that he only shot the guy because he was black. Again, a white man doing the same thing would also have been shot dead.
Police don't tell you to put your hands up in the air just to hear themselves speak.
Again, stop the race card nonsense. In a country where it's played anytime something involves minorities it sure as hell gets old really quick.
Now do you understand Albatross. Again, explain to me why you think the wallet guy was shot (and let's in fact pretend he didn't make a gesture construed as threatening).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/25 00:27:12
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/25 00:24:12
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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@Orkeosaurus - Are you winding me up? 
I know THAT kid had a gun, but the guy I was talking about, didn't. In fact, the Diallo case is mentioned in the article that he linked.
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/25 00:25:38
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Orkeosaurus wrote:Albatross wrote:Yes, because everyone knows white cops have it out for black people. If it had been a white guy pointing a gun at cops they wouldn't have shot at him. It is so clear to me now.
No, not really.
FOR THE LAST fething TIME! I am NOT referring to the kid who pointed the gun at the cops - I don't know what skin-colour he had!
I am referring to a different case in which an unarmed black man was shot dead by police officers in NY. His name was Amadou Diallo. Look it up.
Unarmed? You should really read the article the OP linked to man, he had a 9mm.
Alba is talking about wallet guy mentioned at the bottom of the article. I thought he was talking about the kid in the main article. My point still stands though. It's not a race issue as much as the BH's want to make it one.
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/25 00:33:15
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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Read this and tell me racial profiling didn't play a part in his death.
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/26/nyregion/diallo-verdict-overview-4-officers-diallo-shooting-are-acquitted-all-charges.html
I find the term 'race card' offensive - is it wrong for black americans to be sensitive to racial issues when segregation is within living memory? This might open a can of worms actually... 
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/25 00:33:38
Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/25 00:41:37
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Martial Arts Fiday
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Racial profiling didn't play a part in his death.
When crime statistics are more in line with demograhphic statistics, then "racial profiling" might be a factor. As long as the majority of crimes are committed by the minority of a population (regardless of race) then law enforcement are justified in certain assumptions.
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"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
 warboss wrote:
GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up. 
Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
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2009/11/25 00:42:55
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It just shows to me that they had remorse for making a mistake. I don't see any example of racial profiling unless you want to construe "we believed him to be a rapist or a robber" as racial profiling.
Here in the States if you are lurking around anywhere you have no right to be you will be suspected of being up to no good.
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/25 00:43:25
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Albatross wrote:
I find the term 'race card' offensive - is it wrong for black americans to be sensitive to racial issues when segregation is within living memory?
No, but it IS wrong to assume that every interaction between a police officer or other government representative, and a citizen is motivated by color of skin. Stating that somebody is playing the race card might offend you, but you being offended doesn't make the statement any less (or more) true. People "play the race card" everyday, justifiably and not.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/25 00:45:26
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/11/25 00:49:44
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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No, but it IS wrong to assume that every interaction between a police officer or other government representative is motivated by color of skin.
I never made that statement.
@Nurgleboy - Figures or it didn't happen/you're a racist.
@Fateweaver -
Here in the States if you are lurking around anywhere you have no right to be you will be suspected of being up to no good.
And shot dead? Ah, the 'Land of the Free'.... 
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Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/25 00:53:08
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Martial Arts Fiday
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I am happily a Racist.
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"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
warboss wrote:
GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up.
Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
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2009/11/25 00:55:16
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ugh, I give up Albatross. You are being ignorant just to be argumentative.
This has been beaten to death. He acted in a manner the cops construed as hostile AFTER being questioned as to his reasoning for being where he was. A cop that wants to go home to his or her family will not wait to see if it's a spoon or a dandelion or a weapon that gets pulled from a suspects jacket or pants or shirt pockets.
When you are told to keep your hands where they can be seen (and most likely he was told that) and you have a gun pointed at you, you would be wise to comply with officer demands. For whatever reason wallet-guy decided to be a moron that night.
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/25 01:02:45
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Albatross wrote:
No, but it IS wrong to assume that every interaction between a police officer or other government representative is motivated by color of skin.
I never made that statement.
You didn't have to. "So-and-so is playing the race card" is a statement of belief that somebody is claiming discrimination without merit. The only way to be offended by this is to believe that claims of discrimination are always founded, and that people never lie about such things.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/11/25 01:06:57
Subject: Re:The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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Orkeosaurus wrote:Albatross wrote:Yes, because everyone knows white cops have it out for black people. If it had been a white guy pointing a gun at cops they wouldn't have shot at him. It is so clear to me now.
No, not really.
FOR THE LAST fething TIME! I am NOT referring to the kid who pointed the gun at the cops - I don't know what skin-colour he had!
I am referring to a different case in which an unarmed black man was shot dead by police officers in NY. His name was Amadou Diallo. Look it up.
Unarmed? You should really read the article the OP linked to man, he had a 9mm.
I understand now, we're not speaking the same language. READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE OR I WILL SHOOT YOU IN THE SPINE. LAST WARNI"BANG".
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2009/11/25 01:09:05
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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@Fateweaver - I'm not, I swear.
They didn't question him - they approached him in plain clothes in an intimidating fashion. The prosecution claimed that they did not identify themselves as police officers sufficiently clearly (possibly excacerbated by the fact that the victim wasn't a native english-speaker), and approached with guns drawn. It is likely that Diallo thought he was being robbed, which is why he went for his wallet and held it out after first trying to seek refuge in his apartment.
But fair enough, if you don't want to discuss it further I'll leave it there.
@Nurgleboy - I hope you're joking, but sadly I suspect you aren't.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/11/25 01:11:01
Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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2009/11/25 01:12:32
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'm not racist, I hate everyone that isn't me.
As to the race card it gets played more often than the most popular top 40 songs on any radio station, ie. about 3 times an hour around where I am at.
Ah, so the prosecution says. Because lawyers don't ever lie.
Let's just agree to disagree on this Albatross.
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--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
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2009/11/25 01:17:57
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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That's some pretty good shooting (11 hits out of 14 shots) by the NYPD - not the level of marksmanship you'd expect from your average northeastern donut-muncher...
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2009/11/25 01:18:24
Subject: The number # reason to never point a gun at a cop......
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Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
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@Lordhat - Nice attempt at twisting my words. I dislike the term 'race-card' because it trivialises racial issues, and is used by racists to divest themselves of any responsibilty for discriminatory behaviour by claiming that the other party is being hypersensitive to some percieved slight. Yes, I am aware that people can make false claims of racism, and no I don't always believe that all claims of discrimination have foundation. Automatically Appended Next Post: @Fateweaver - Fair enough. I have a feeling any debate we would ever have would end that way .
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/25 01:20:42
Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
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