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I am a a Racist in the fact that I can acknowledge that there are differences between the races.

And just to lighten the mood a bit....

Frazzled wrote:Here's the only part of Sebster's monologue thats relevant:

A lethal response is justifiable when the officer has a reasonable expectation that the non-compliance represents a deadly threat,

There's always an investigation after. They had a reasonable expectation. They capped him because of it. Its irrelevant what the item is. Any statements otherwise are carping without facts.

Yeah, and there was an investigation and then a trial, and the officers involved were acquitted. I don't like second guessing juries because they've sat there for two weeks or more listening to testimony and expert statements, and I'm just some guy who's read a few articles about it. So I'm happy to accept the jury's opinion and figure at the end of the day the justice system operated as it should, and that the officers acted in good faith and with proper judgement.

But the big thing to remember is that Amadou Diallo was sitting out the front of his apartment, a perfectly reasonable thing to do. He reacted in an understandable manner when he saw four men in plain clothes with guns drawn get out of a regular car and head towards him. When cornered he drew his wallet from his pocket, either to show it policemen or to hand it over to robbers, an action many people would take without realising how the officers might have perceived it.

So yeah, at the end of the day it can be put down to a series of unfortunate events that left a guy who did nothing wrong being shot by policemen. But those unfortunate events would not happen to a white kid living in the suburbs, they will only happen to a black guy living in the wrong part of town.

And that's pretty f*cked up.

So yeah, at the end of the day it can be put down to a series of unfortunate events that left a guy who did nothing being shot by policemen. But those unfortunate events would not happen to a white kid living in the suburbs, they will only happen to a black guy living in the wrong part of town.

?

Seriously?

??

Fateweaver wrote:

So yeah, at the end of the day it can be put down to a series of unfortunate events that left a guy who did nothing being shot by policemen. But those unfortunate events would not happen to a white kid living in the suburbs, they will only happen to a black guy living in the wrong part of town.

?

Seriously?

??

Statistically speaking, yes really!!!

...!!!

...!

I will add of course, that those situations could easily be switched in a different situation/reality/country. There is no reason besides the preconception of race, for these things to happen. If the guy was a well known criminal, then it is an entirely different story.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:I am a a Racist in the fact that I can acknowledge that there are differences between the races.

There is only ignorance and subspecies, there are no true races. The concept of race is about as helpful to determining someones demographic, as a butter knife is to cutting down a tree, to see the rings.

The color of a persons skin means nothing, absolutely nothing. People choose to put meaning where they feel it is lacking, thus the concept of race is perpetuated. You can get pedantic if you want, but the whole concept of race... being used to say you are in fact not racist... is doubly ignorant. If someone is wearing baggy jeans, has a doo-rag on, and is sporting a thousand dollars worth of gold accessories in a poor neighborhood... you can begin to develop a demographically based conclusion from that. The fact that a person may be white, pink, black, brown, or tangerine, has nothing to do with any of this though.

I have known asian gangbangers, latino gangbangers, white gangbangers, black gangbangers, and at no point was it not obvious why most of them were living that life. Look at someones socioeconomic condition, and you will get a plethora of information to derive shaky conclusions from. The fact that I am Irish, and I like potatoes, has little more to do with the fact that I ate a lot of potatoes as a kid; most likely as any other person with a preferred cultural dish would do.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:I am happily a Racist.

And that ladies and gentlemen is about the level of civil discourse in this thread. Could someone lock this wounded beast before it's cancer kills all of us? Or do I have to throw my hat back in the ring? I'm back home for the holiday, so I'll have a lot of time for text walls.

Fateweaver wrote:?

Seriously?

??

Sbuh? Are you claiming that police actions are just as aggressive in suburban white areas as they are in inner city areas with high minority populations? The officers involved were part of an operation to target high crime areas, something you will not see in the suburbs.

As an ex security guard.. the guy who got bashed sensible for flippin the bird made me smile. I wasn't even allowed to have a nightstick. :(

Also everyone who thinks cops are harsh whatever, has obviously never seen the scum they deal with everyday. Even just petty thieves are disgusting volatile spankers. Or worst of all cocky teenagers who know their rights.. With their continual whinging "you cant do this to me dont touch me bro" .. Argh glad I dont do that job anymore.


Bash em all sensible I say.

As to the op story you point a gun at a cop you are dead. And No one will miss you.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:I am a a Racist in the fact that I can acknowledge that there are differences between the races.

And just to lighten the mood a bit....

Clerks II rocks!


And in response...




NSFW, obviously.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:I am a a Racist in the fact that I can acknowledge that there are differences between the races.

such as...

Albatross wrote:Read this and tell me racial profiling didn't play a part in his death.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/26/nyregion/diallo-verdict-overview-4-officers-diallo-shooting-are-acquitted-all-charges.html


I find the term 'race card' offensive - is it wrong for black americans to be sensitive to racial issues when segregation is within living memory? This might open a can of worms actually...

A quote from your article:

During the trial, the officers acknowledged their mistake in shooting Mr. Diallo. The defense lawyers made the officers' testimony the centerpiece of their defense, asserting that the shooting was justified because they had believed Mr. Diallo was grabbing a gun. Officer Carroll sobbed as he described how he had realized his error and held Mr. Diallo's hand as he lay dying.

In short: they shot because they beleived he was reaching for a gun. If the police think you are reaching for a gun, it doesn't matter if you are blue they are going to shoot you. Period.

Moral of the story? Don't do something that could be miscontrued as reaching for a gun! Certainly don't do it quickly, or without telling the officer what you are doing. And if he tells you not to do it, don't do it. I have been stopped by the police a number of times. I am polite, I do as they tell me, and surprise surprise, I have never ever had any problems with them.

It's that simple. Really, it is.

Are there cops who are jerks? Yes there are. Are there cops who are racists? No doubt. But the fastest way to get in trouble is to assume that the one who you are dealing with now is one of the bad apples. If he isn't, that just pisses him off. If he is, then he's going to be even more pissed off for you calling him on it. And bad things then happen to you.

Vulcan wrote:Moral of the story? Don't do something that could be miscontrued as reaching for a gun! Certainly don't do it quickly, or without telling the officer what you are doing. And if he tells you not to do it, don't do it. I have been stopped by the police a number of times. I am polite, I do as they tell me, and surprise surprise, I have never ever had any problems with them.

It's that simple. Really, it is.

It also has to be recognised that the police are a lot more polite and a lot easier to get along with when they're in low crime areas. This is not a sleight on the police, in more dangerous areas they have to be more aggressive in order to maintain authority, but it does mean that if you live in the wrong area police will be more aggressive even if you've never broken the law.

And more importantly, it has to be recognised that if you live in the wrong area it is a lot more likely that you'll end up in a situation where policemen will be pointing a gun at you, and you might accidentally do something that ends up with you getting shot. It is perfectly sensible for police to patrol more aggressively in high crime areas, but it does mean that innocent people will end up on the wrong end of that aggression sometimes.

It is all, as you say, that simple.

Dave Chappelle knows the real problem behind all of this... sketch artists... it is all their fault.

It IS Dave Chappelle, who is known for his poopy mouth... so watch at your own risk.

sebster wrote:

Nurgleboy77 wrote:I am a a Racist in the fact that I can acknowledge that there are differences between the races.

such as...

Melanin content and possibly epicanthic eye folds? I guess?

So this week I was bored at work a bit since holidays and what have you, and I decided to get in contact with some of my counterparts in different militarys what not. Interesting thing I learned and I bring this up to totally discredit albatross is that for 4-5 years almost all bobbys (I think their called over in there in the UK either) or COPS carried as standard issue desert eagles .50cal's. . This was their first issue weapon once they finally were allowed to carry firearms. Of coarse because of the kill rate after almost 5 years your parliament decided to replace these weapons with 9mm. Hrmm and he says our cops are bad. I Picked this up off a private ammunition forum from some british soldiers.

Wrexasaur wrote:There is only ignorance and subspecies,

I think all modern humans are actually the same subspecies.

There is more genetic difference between a man and his wife than there is between the same man and a Uighur man or Congolese pygmy or Trobriand Islander.

So this week I was bored at work a bit since holidays and what have you, and I decided to get in contact with some of my counterparts in different militarys what not. Interesting thing I learned and I bring this up to totally discredit albatross is that for 4-5 years almost all bobbys (I think their called over in there in the UK either) or COPS carried as standard issue desert eagles .50cal's. . This was their first issue weapon once they finally were allowed to carry firearms. Of coarse because of the kill rate after almost 5 years your parliament decided to replace these weapons with 9mm. Hrmm and he says our cops are bad. I Picked this up off a private ammunition forum from some british soldiers.

I love it when someone is both smug AND wrong. This never happened.

How does this discredit me? I am fully aware that Britain has an Armed Response Unit, that is called out to deal with incidents as needed. They carry HK MP5s, generally.
But almost all? No, the overwhelming number of British 'bobbies' are armed only with a baton and CS Gas. How do I know all this? Because I live here - I didn't fething read it on the internet.

And Desert Eagles?

I think someone may have been taking the piss out of you.

you seem rather upset their albatros would it be because of the truth at hand. GASP you can't bash on the U.S as much because it's just the same over their. I work hand in hand with foreign militarys so by your account that would mean that well your own british troops lie.. hmmmm your no cop... not a soldier thats all easy to see well think what you want because I know I will

If British troops told you that, they were lying. Armed Response Officers are not 'almost all' british police officers, and they most certainly do not carry Desert Eagles, nor have they ever, as far as I can tell. I am not remotely upset by anything you posted - I just found your triumphalism and smug attitude fairly amusing, considering the fact that not only was it factually incorrect, but it was also poorly spelt, with poor awareness of basic grammar and punctuation throughout.
If you don't wish to get people's backs up, don't be a knob - just say: 'I heard that british cops do (X), is this true or not?'.
And I haven't 'bashed' America/Americans here, as far as I'm aware.

:S

Why would they carry desert eagles? Desert eagles are not good weapons. They are overly powerful, and underly useful. They are big, shiny, and make big holes in watermelons on T.V. but in an actual life threatening situation they are slow to draw and difficult to steady due to their weight and they are exceptionally difficult to keep on target. They are not a policeman's weapon.

@jp400 - Hey, how about I just say what I want and you mind your own business? The guy was wrong, and in claiming to be right, was trying to rub my nose in it. If the MODs have a problem with what I said, then they'll pick me up on it I'm sure.
Not that I have to explain myself to you, of course.

Albatross wrote:@jp400 - Hey, how about I just say what I want and you mind your own business? The guy was wrong, and in claiming to be right, was trying to rub my nose in it. If the MODs have a problem with what I said, then they'll pick me up on it I'm sure.
Not that I have to explain myself to you, of course.

Sickburn.

@Shuma

Eh?

I don't get it...

EDIT: Nevermind, I googled it!

The only time i have ever seen armed police in England was when we had the ruling party (Labour) conference in Manchester. There was a large police presence over the event (including metal detectors on the streets) , with maybe two armed officers (MP5's) for every fifty regular Bobbys.

@Empchild: Consider the source of your information. Is it not likely that in a private ammunition forum posters just might exaggerate the truth to give more weight to their words? Granted, there are some sections of the police force where almost all officers will be armed - those looking after MoD institutions, nuclear power/processing centres. If someone told you that 'almost all' British police were armed, they were either lying or mis-informed.

Desert Eagles have never been carried by our police officers. As Shuma says, they are a horribly inappropriate weapon for Police.

Nuclear Police get Glocks, IIRC. A mate of mine applied for a job with them.

Albatross wrote:@jp400 - Hey, how about I just say what I want and you mind your own business? The guy was wrong, and in claiming to be right, was trying to rub my nose in it. If the MODs have a problem with what I said, then they'll pick me up on it I'm sure.
Not that I have to explain myself to you, of course.

How about everyone just takes a breath and settles down so we don't need to lock the thread?


Not singling you out specifically, Albatross... there's baiting from both sides here, and I couldn't be bothered wading through all this nonsense to sort out who started it. So everyone keep it civil, please.

No problem - even when I'm rude, I'm usually civil about it!
Comes with the territory, old chap.

Albatross wrote:Nuclear Police get Glocks, IIRC. A mate of mine applied for a job with them.

Quite right sir. Although if they are involved with the transportation of Nuclear waste, they have access to 30mm calibre weaponry! I'm guessing though, that this is quite firmly affixed to the boat they are riding in and, can't be 'dual-wielded' :(

I'm guessing though, that this is quite firmly affixed to the boat they are riding in and, can't be 'dual-wielded' :(

Boo! Fixing stuff to boats? Boring....