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I'm thinking I'll keep the Toxin Sacs, but I might knock off all of the Adrenal Glands. They're really only useful vs MEQs, and only marginally. Some quick math, albeit not necessarily Correct math, puts it at a 25% of your attacks hitting and wounding (not counting saves) with no Adrenal, and 37% with it. That difference also does not factor in you buying more guys with the points you save.

8 pt Hormagaunts with WS 2, Str 3, T 3, 2 Attacks and Poisoned Attacks sounds like a real good deal to me.

Well, with the stats you listed, Gaunts with only Poisoned Attacks wound MEQs 10.89% of their swings. With Furious Charge, they wound at the same rate, but swing on par if not faster (the old Gaunts were I4 base, right?) than Marines, so they do more damage. With both, they kill 16.33% of the time, swinging before Marines.

So, Poisoned Attacks makes them better against things in general, but Furious Charge makes them actually able to get their swings in close combat. I still say take both.

But they are I5 now from what everyone has said. So they already hit first so all you really get out of Furious Charge is the re-roll to wound for 25% more points on the model (after already adding in poison).

Apparently a Hormagaunt with both grades costs 10 points. I don't consider that a good deal.

Fetterkey wrote:Apparently a Hormagaunt with both grades costs 10 points. I don't consider that a good deal.

Compared to what? The 10 points they cost now whilst sucking. This is a massive increase in power (F-Charge, Poison, Super-Fleet, Re-Roll 1's To Hit) for a single loss (6" of charge range) and no change in cost.

And if you don't want that, you get 'em for 60% of the price you used to and they still have the re-rolling 1's and the Super-Fleet. This is a win.

Better != good.

Sure, at 10 pts the new Hormagaunt will be better than the current 10 pt Hormagaunts. However, at just 8 pts worth of upgrades, they're Still better than the current 10 pt ones. I think the 8 pt Toxigaunt will be the way to go with the new book.

Adrenal is there to glance vehicles or something....

I'm know that for 10 points it's a power house for what your looking at...if rumors are right on the charge WS3 S4 I6 rerolling to wound (poison) wounding on 4 with marines S4 vs T4 but still poison so you can wound Plague but without a rerolling to wound at 4s, but can still wound a wrathlord. As well as re-rolling 1's. My bitch was the "feel" and in my mind the heart of the unit, the 12" charge......I know that this unit is better now, but I miss the ungodly terror of the 12" charge.

After having 3 run rolls of a 1 two games in a row with my Hormagaunt unit (which cost me one of the games) I have to say that i'm ecstatic with the switch. they are still faster and deadlier than before and for cheaper. No t3 model without any armor or guns should cost 10 points.

Just to say how excited I am about them, one of my current projects is to equip my current 16 with Tox (And touch up[ the paint Job).

sounds like the whoremagaunts (tee hee) got better.
As a nid player, I'm super happy with the change.
1/2 point cost; hells yes.

I think changes to the hormagaunts are purely to help sync them with venomthropes and mycetic pods .

They look effective too.
Though its not helping that GW dont make some horde movement tray for them , you'll need it for all the gaunts -_-

Shoot, if they have the high Initiative, take only Poison.

DarkHound wrote:Shoot, if they have the high Initiative, take only Poison.

True but for 2 more points the S4 on the charge would let you reroll failed wounds on marines worth the 2 points, unless I'm wrong you need to equal or greater S than T to get the reroll with poison....but I could be wrong.

Anarchyman99 wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Shoot, if they have the high Initiative, take only Poison.

True but for 2 more points the S4 on the charge would let you reroll failed wounds on marines worth the 2 points, unless I'm wrong you need to equal or greater S than T to get the reroll with poison....but I could be wrong.

And while that is cool, if you have atleast as good Initiative, the 25% increase in price isn't worth the 6% increase in damage. If Gaunts are I3 base, then yes, Furious Charge is going to be worth the price hike so you can get all your swings in, but we'll have to wait and see.

I5 according to the stuff Luna posted which means I'll be having the 8pt. variety which includes only poison. Yeah, that'll be so much nicer than my 13 point ones I use now.

I think the toxin sac upgrade is definitely worth it, as it prevents you from getting screwed by several dangerous units. However, the adrenal glands don't seem as powerful, and if they're 2 points and Hormas already have I5, I'd probably give them a pass.

The 8 pt Toxigaunt is a winner. Now what about Gaunts? They come with a Fleshborer, 12" Str 4 AP 5 Assault 1. For 4 pts, upping their cost to 10 pts a guy, you can get Devourers, 18" Str 4 AP - Assault 3. Three times the shots, for less than twice the cost, and with a longer range to boot. The downside? Those Guardsmen will get their Flak Armor saves.

Take that upgrade every time.

Aduro wrote:The 8 pt Toxigaunt is a winner. Now what about Gaunts? They come with a Fleshborer, 12" Str 4 AP 5 Assault 1. For 4 pts, upping their cost to 10 pts a guy, you can get Devourers, 18" Str 4 AP - Assault 3. Three times the shots, for less than twice the cost, and with a longer range to boot. The downside? Those Guardsmen will get their Flak Armor saves.

Which, statistically, only eliminates 1/3 of the wounds....

which means that you've got double the casualties (on GEQ) and a 33% reduction in return fire for less than twice the price.



I dunno about you, but that says to me that you're still coming out waaaaay ahead of the curve, and you're forcing 3 times the MEQ/Termie saves as you would with the fleshborer.

I don't know about you guys, but 10 is not less than twice 4. Infact, it is twice and half again 4. You still inch out a lead, but there is merit in taking twice the models, especially where scoring units are concerned.

DarkHound wrote:I don't know about you guys, but 10 is not less than twice 4. Infact, it is twice and half again 4. You still inch out a lead, but there is merit in taking twice the models, especially where scoring units are concerned.

I was merely basing my math on his statement... 10 points (the final cost), minus 4 pints (cost of the Devourer) comes to 6 points (my presumed starting point).



As far as scoring units go, 10 points per body at that volume of fire allows you to just dump buckets of dice for relatively cheap if you layer 'em up.

The other piece of this to note is that you don't need to run all of them like this. 1 or 2 of these broods would be just fine, and then you back them with a gak-ton of cheapie throw-aways or hormies...



Truth be told, I think they got a buff, concidering the fact that if you wanted Gaunts to be even remotely useful in the last codex, you were spending upwards of 11 points per model on them anyhow, so it's still an improvement.

Gaunts are 5pts. base. Meaning a devourer doubles the cost of the model in return for tripling it's firepower and giving it half again the range. Makes the unit amazing but also a glass hammer. I will probably take my squad of 20 cause I just can't stop myself since it's still a 50% ish increase over the old heavily upgraded dev gaunts that cost 10pts.

I won't deny that they are a glass hammer, but that kinda what the new 'dex is shaping up to be.... either a massive, ugly, fragile blow, or a huge, hulking, moderately average thwack upside someone's head...

Sort of a glass hammer with a rather pillowy anvil almost...

DarkHound wrote:And while that is cool, if you have atleast as good Initiative, the 25% increase in price isn't worth the 6% increase in damage. If Gaunts are I3 base, then yes, Furious Charge is going to be worth the price hike so you can get all your swings in, but we'll have to wait and see.

Wait what? Isn't it:

3 attacks on charge.

1.5 hits.

0.75 wounds = 0.2475 dead marines

Reroll

1.125 wounds = 0.37125 dead marines


Thats a 50% higher chance to kill a marine per hormagaunt. Pretty significant when that's 1.85 extra dead marines for a squad of 15 (only 30 points of upgrades).

I dunno if you guys missed this, but they no longer have flesh hooks. Their initiative 5 means jack if they are assaulting anything in cover. Apparently almost nothing has an offensive grenade equivalent in the new book... sad

Ah, yeah, Gaunts are 5 pts base, not 6, so the Devourer would indeed do a full doubling of their point cost. Two Gaunts with a 12" range and two shots total, or one Gaunt with an 18" range and three shots. Not quite the no brainer I first thought.