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Alpharius wrote:Forge World will soon be making tons and tons of money!

A MKV and now a MVIII, to go along with the already released MKIV and, admittedly not all that special MKVI?

Hopefully FW will grace us with a 'true' MKVIII and then we're all set!

Based on GW's ability to do limited run sprues like the Defrolla, it's is disapponting that these aren't plastic sprues of a single Mark. If GW sold individual sprues that made converted 10 marines to a "classic" Mark for $20, they would rake in money hand over fist. $120 to field 60 guys in mk.V Heresy armor? Yes!

FW wrote:Many boffins died to bring us this information, but despite their sacrifice all we can say for now is that it is well and truly set in the 41st Millenium…

Boffins!? Come on, FW! If you're going to quote star wars, you gotta get it right...

Alright, time to start making a list.
There is now no reason not to get Krieg army.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I will be slightly disappointed if they do NOT include led variants, as they are quite different as you work your way 'backwards' from MKVI.

MKIV legs really 'should' have been included in the "Scorpions" set.

Sure, the price would go up - but so would the awesomeness!

A suit of MKIII armor with MKVI or MKVII legs - it will look a bit odd!

Am I right in thinking that the Krieg list means that you can use them in "normal" 40K games, by which I mean I don't need to sort of check with my opponent that it's ok to use forgeworld models etc... Just checking before I blow lots of money on them...

Alpharius wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but I will be slightly disappointed if they do NOT include led variants, as they are quite different as you work your way 'backwards' from MKVI.

MKIV legs really 'should' have been included in the "Scorpions" set.

Sure, the price would go up - but so would the awesomeness!

A suit of MKIII armor with MKVI or MKVII legs - it will look a bit odd!

It's worth noting here and now, to remember that most of the older marks of armor are incomplete and use parts from newer marks alongside the old ones.

Marine Artificers try to keep things the same, but sometimes it's just not possible.

Wouldnt it be hilarious if they released true scale pre heresy marines

ghosty wrote:Wouldnt it be hilarious if they released true scale pre heresy marines

It'd be easier if GW simply shrank the Cadians and Catachans back to 2E size.

redbristles wrote:Am I right in thinking that the Krieg list means that you can use them in "normal" 40K games, by which I mean I don't need to sort of check with my opponent that it's ok to use forgeworld models etc... Just checking before I blow lots of money on them...

You still have to ask, but considering your entire army is FW, your opponent accepts or doesn't play with you.

brettz123 wrote:And actually it is a lot cheaper than $2.00 a head considering in the Red Scorpion kit you get 11 heads, 12 shoulder pads, 11 chest plates (all mk IV), and a power sword for 16 pounds I believe at current conversions rates that is $24.00 for 35 pieces which makes it about what .69 american cents a piece..... which is actually cheaper than you can get stuff other places. Now granted I always order enough stuff to get free shipping but there you have it.

Quoted for truth. When your helmet and shoulder pad bits are 50% more expensive than forgeworld bits, something is wrong.

If the various mark torsos are generic and 10 piece, with just torsos and chest plates and maybe backpacks or shoulder pads, more similar to the Red Scorpions kit than the Raven Guard kit, I am sure that I will be buying a whole lot of mk8 armor.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Based on GW's ability to do limited run sprues like the Defrolla, it's is disapponting that these aren't plastic sprues of a single Mark. If GW sold individual sprues that made converted 10 marines to a "classic" Mark for $20, they would rake in money hand over fist. $120 to field 60 guys in mk.V Heresy armor? Yes!

I kinda have to agree with DD here - these are the types of things GW should be producing as Direct Only pieces. Sprues of alternate chest/head/shoulder pads should sell like hotcakes. I mean, what always sells out first at the various bitz sites? Company Champion heads/shoulder pads/torsos, Black Templar crusading helms, the helmets from the new Ven Dread - people want Marines like that, so much so that they pay a fortune for a single bit from an entire kit (I should I know, I have about 25+/- Company Champion heads sitting in my bitz box). This is an untapped gold mine for GW, and instead we're getting Forge World's version, which will be expensive, badly cast and take 4 years to arrive.

Lord_Astaroth wrote:no Stormtroopers,

That's what grenadiers are.

Lord_Astaroth wrote: no Valkyries/Vendettas, no Veteran squads.

DKoK have never had any of these.

Lord_Astaroth wrote:no Chimeras

Centaurs are fast and open-topped

What they do have is heavy weapons everywhere.
Quad launchers in elite.
Cyclop's in fast attack
towed artillery in heavy support

JohnHwangDD wrote:It'd be easier if GW simply shrank the Cadians and Catachans back to 2E size.

2nd Ed metal Catachans were the same size if not bigger than Marines. The DKoK models are to scale with Marines, and it's one of the reasons why 'True Scale' Marines is such a misnomer. Marines are not out of scale - it's the human models that are too big.

poipo32 wrote:

redbristles wrote:Am I right in thinking that the Krieg list means that you can use them in "normal" 40K games, by which I mean I don't need to sort of check with my opponent that it's ok to use forgeworld models etc... Just checking before I blow lots of money on them...

You still have to ask, but considering your entire army is FW, your opponent accepts or doesn't play with you.

FW hasn't been opponent's consent for a long time.

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but I will be slightly disappointed if they do NOT include led variants, as they are quite different as you work your way 'backwards' from MKVI.

MKIV legs really 'should' have been included in the "Scorpions" set.

Sure, the price would go up - but so would the awesomeness!

A suit of MKIII armor with MKVI or MKVII legs - it will look a bit odd!

It's worth noting here and now, to remember that most of the older marks of armor are incomplete and use parts from newer marks alongside the old ones.

Marine Artificers try to keep things the same, but sometimes it's just not possible.

While true, doesn't it strike as a bit odd then that 'only' the leg armor is failing and not being maintained in all of these sets?

In reality, it is FW being a bit lazy, or some other strange reason, and not sculpting and casting them up!

ph34r wrote:

brettz123 wrote:And actually it is a lot cheaper than $2.00 a head considering in the Red Scorpion kit you get 11 heads, 12 shoulder pads, 11 chest plates (all mk IV), and a power sword for 16 pounds I believe at current conversions rates that is $24.00 for 35 pieces which makes it about what .69 american cents a piece..... which is actually cheaper than you can get stuff other places. Now granted I always order enough stuff to get free shipping but there you have it.

Quoted for truth. When your helmet and shoulder pad bits are 50% more expensive than forgeworld bits, something is wrong.

If the various mark torsos are generic and 10 piece, with just torsos and chest plates and maybe backpacks or shoulder pads, more similar to the Red Scorpions kit than the Raven Guard kit, I am sure that I will be buying a whole lot of mk8 armor.

While I'd LOVE for FW to put out a proper MKVIII kit, there is, as of yet, no word that they'll be doing something for the upcoming IA:********* book.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Based on GW's ability to do limited run sprues like the Defrolla, it's is disapponting that these aren't plastic sprues of a single Mark. If GW sold individual sprues that made converted 10 marines to a "classic" Mark for $20, they would rake in money hand over fist. $120 to field 60 guys in mk.V Heresy armor? Yes!

I kinda have to agree with DD here - these are the types of things GW should be producing as Direct Only pieces. Sprues of alternate chest/head/shoulder pads should sell like hotcakes. I mean, what always sells out first at the various bitz sites? Company Champion heads/shoulder pads/torsos, Black Templar crusading helms, the helmets from the new Ven Dread - people want Marines like that, so much so that they pay a fortune for a single bit from an entire kit (I should I know, I have about 25+/- Company Champion heads sitting in my bitz box). This is an untapped gold mine for GW, and instead we're getting Forge World's version, which will be expensive, badly cast and take 4 years to arrive.

No doubt!

GW is seriously missing out on a lot of sales by not doing this.

A plastic sprue with MKIII, MKIV, MKV, MKVI and MKVIII... ah, to dream!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Based on GW's ability to do limited run sprues like the Defrolla, it's is disapponting that these aren't plastic sprues of a single Mark. If GW sold individual sprues that made converted 10 marines to a "classic" Mark for $20, they would rake in money hand over fist. $120 to field 60 guys in mk.V Heresy armor? Yes!

I kinda have to agree with DD here - these are the types of things GW should be producing as Direct Only pieces. Sprues of alternate chest/head/shoulder pads should sell like hotcakes. I mean, what always sells out first at the various bitz sites? Company Champion heads/shoulder pads/torsos, Black Templar crusading helms, the helmets from the new Ven Dread - people want Marines like that, so much so that they pay a fortune for a single bit from an entire kit (I should I know, I have about 25+/- Company Champion heads sitting in my bitz box). This is an untapped gold mine for GW, and instead we're getting Forge World's version, which will be expensive, badly cast and take 4 years to arrive.

You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.

Kanluwen wrote:You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.

Take off the boxing gloves Kan. There's no need to jump in and defend what doesn't need defending.

GW should do market research and should see what people want to buy. In fact, should have used their old bitz service as market research for what people wanted before shutting it down and starting up the new one, that way the current bitz service would be "useful" rather than "gak".

This isn't rocket science. It's a while since I contaminated a dacha thread, but this one looks fun. This is the most obvious moneymaker for GW that we are shockedit hasn't happened. A sprue loaded with chest pieces and/or helmets would make them a ridiculous amount of money for minimal effort. Even a IF/CF sprue would make bank, much less an unaffiliated armor type sprue.

One of the joys of playing Marines is the model-making aspect, via the many kits. They don't need to align the sprues to any sort or release, either. The Orks could benefit from a "variety" sprue as well.

Maybe the great sales of this eventual FW release will make that obvious.

Again, this is obvious.

Sometimes I think they are holding sprues of heresy armor in reserve for a particularly rough year... it is so obvious how well they would sell that I can't rationally imagine it hasn't been thought of and heavily discussed internally yet.

Thing is, GW is slowly eroding their backup fluff and running out of space in their universe in terms of their own established boundaries... Once pre-heresy armor is readily available, they can put out primarch models but then what?? 2 missing legions? At that point, imperial history and it's hints are pretty mined out. So with Heresy and 40k pretty much tapped at that point, they will start having to move the story along in order to have pre-installed minis with this level of excitement and demand. Either that, or it's 50k or Emperor resurrection time!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.

Take off the boxing gloves Kan. There's no need to jump in and defend what doesn't need defending.

GW should do market research and should see what people want to buy. In fact, should have used their old bitz service as market research for what people wanted before shutting it down and starting up the new one, that way the current bitz service would be "useful" rather than "gak".

You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?

So.... about those renegades, FW.

Kanluwen wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?

Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?

Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...

Kanluwen,

I know you like GW that much (and it seems filling their wallets), but $16 for 5 not 10 marines worth does not lend well to your thoughts that they will sell 10 kits for a measly 15 GBP (living in fantasy world?!).

so thats $24 US for 5 marines worth, not 10.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/RED-SCORPIONS-VETERANS-WITH-VETERAN-SERGEANT-HAAS-UPGRADE-PACK.html

You were saying?

Yet you ignore the most RECENT offering, 5 Ravenguard marines for the same price, I haev a hard time thinking that 5 bolters makes them worth double the price, yet FW thinks so.

I ignore the most recent offering because I haven't actually seen the actual sprues, have you?

The Cadian upgrade kits come with a crapload of stuff in addition to the "upgrade kits for 10 men".

Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.

Take off the boxing gloves Kan. There's no need to jump in and defend what doesn't need defending.

GW should do market research and should see what people want to buy. In fact, should have used their old bitz service as market research for what people wanted before shutting it down and starting up the new one, that way the current bitz service would be "useful" rather than "gak".

You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, yes, it actually did!

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.

Take off the boxing gloves Kan. There's no need to jump in and defend what doesn't need defending.

GW should do market research and should see what people want to buy. In fact, should have used their old bitz service as market research for what people wanted before shutting it down and starting up the new one, that way the current bitz service would be "useful" rather than "gak".

You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, yes, it actually did!

The only "single pieces" they offered were metal bits. They didn't have a "bits cut from sprue" service like you find at BWbitz or what have you.

Metal bits, though, are arguably far less useful for the most part.

Ah, gotcha now!

And very true!

Still, I do miss the old bitz service.

And, the 'other' sites will continue to fill a need.

GW would be smart to do more pre-heresy stuff.

They sneak a bit or two on each new marine release, so they KNOW the demand is there.

Why the big tease and no full release though is beyond me!

Because the demand could backfire.

Look at Squats. There's thousands of people on forums all over who constantly insist "Oh man I would TOTALLY buy everything to make a Squat army!".

How's the profit for the small places who actually do produce Squat stand-ins? If half those people made good on their promise--they'd go from garage companies to actually being competition for GW+Privateer.

Kanluwen wrote: You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?

You mean like single metal weapon arms and heads and so forth? I dunno, but I've got a 1000-page book that suggests otherwise.

Sure, that's unsustatinable across 3 lines of product that is no longer metal bit-based.

But WTF, GW doesn't even sell individual, in-production sprues anymore?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote: You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?

You mean like single metal weapon arms and heads and so forth? I dunno, but I've got a 1000-page book that suggests otherwise.

Sure, that's unsustainable across 3 lines of product that is no longer metal bit-based.

But WTF, GW doesn't even sell individual, in-production sprues anymore?

Yeah, I corrected that part about "single metal parts".

Honestly, I have no clue why they no longer do it. Part of the issue was always that they cast things up for orders, which means they have to run the molds longer, etc.

Kanluwen wrote:Honestly, I have no clue why they no longer do it. Part of the issue was always that they cast things up for orders, which means they have to run the molds longer, etc.

Don't forget that each kit would have been one or two molds for all the pieces. If only one of those pieces sells through the bitz service, they will have all the other bits stockpiling. Nowadays it would be easier (but still pricey) to create molds of just the bits that sell regularly; if they still did the metal bitz service of course!.

Heck, it would probably make sense if the current plastic kits were split up into separate mini sprues of things like heads, bodies, legs, accessories and weapons allowing for individual sprues to be made and sold.