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Well hell, even when the plastic kits did have that kind of split...they weren't able to do it very well.

Alpharius wrote:While true, doesn't it strike as a bit odd then that 'only' the leg armor is failing and not being maintained in all of these sets?

In reality, it is FW being a bit lazy, or some other strange reason, and not sculpting and casting them up!

An explanation I heard, and do in part believe, is that GW does not want FW to make complete Marines, because they want to keep demand up for the plastic kits. This was idea first started making the rounds when FW's plague marine kit came out, missing the sculpted resin legs it had originally been previewed with. It does make sense, when you think of it.

Yeah, I suppose, but it will always bother me that the leg armor isn't 'right' on these older armor variants!

And really, FW supplies a niche market in what is already a niche market.

I can't imagine GW would even notice a drop at all if FW was selling complete resin marines!

Alpharius wrote:I can't imagine GW would even notice a drop at all if FW was selling complete resin marines!

I'm pretty sure GW doesn't notice in the slightest that FW is selling 2 ranges of complete resin Guardsmen.

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, yes, it actually did!

Well, you are both right. For metal figures, they offered the metal components for sale separately; you wanted that high elf's lord shield - you could buy it separately. Want a Hive Tyrant Head and just the head - you could buy it.

In regards to plastic sprues, they would sell the sprues but not components from the sprues. Now quite often, box kits contained multiple sprues. Each sprue could be purchased individually, but you couldn't buy say one plastic head.

Now back in the golden age of bits, stores could buy the inidvidual sprues at discount and then cut the individual components out for sale. GW, to our horror, ceased thier sale of indivual sprues, forceing bit companies to buy whole kits and become saddles with unneccessary inventory that greately increased the cost to us the consumer. On top of that GW stopped selling individual components of metal figs. Yeah for GW .

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I can't imagine GW would even notice a drop at all if FW was selling complete resin marines!

I'm pretty sure GW doesn't notice in the slightest that FW is selling 2 ranges of complete resin Guardsmen.

Not the same in the slightest. You make all the unimportant parts come from the plastic SM kit, people buy tons of plastic SM in addition to FW. You can't do that to DKoK or Elysians, they would look horrible. Notice how the cadian kits are all conversions, not whole resin.

^ missed the point - the sales of resin DKoK & EDTs are zero relative to plastic Cadians & Catachans.

JohnHwangDD wrote:^ missed the point - the sales of resin DKoK & EDTs are zero relative to plastic Cadians & Catachans.

A. You don't know that, and B. the point still stands. When given an option to make more money or not make more money, this time GW has chosen to make more money by making you buy plastics in addition to resin.

^ Given the amount of plastic IG I see relative to resin, yes I do.

I could care less about resin marine bitz. I'm making a point about resin guard.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

I could care less about resin marine bitz.

WHAT?!?!?

HERETIC!



OK, OK, I kid!

Can we just get back to being excited about older Armor Marks and an updated DKoK list?

I know I am! (Excited about the new free army list that is...) Now if only they would make the rules for Aeronautica free, that would really rock!

One combo that springs to mind with the new list, is a combined squad with commissars, hidden Pfists, and a quartermaster behind the lines to give everyone FNP. I think that could be nasty, to the point of broken...


I think I need to get me a quartermaster...

@Alpharius: I have already gone through the trouble of collecting enough plastic bitz to field a full-bitz Black Templar army and a full-beakie/ Mk. VI army. I'm not likely to field a third bitz army, although I suppose I could be persuaded to add full-bitz Veteran squads.

JohnHwangDD wrote:But WTF, GW doesn't even sell individual, in-production sprues anymore?

Few sprues are produced singularly - the rhino sprues all come from one mould, for example. If they offer them for sale and one sells better than the other then you have waste. Same with most of the squad sprues.

Ahh, but those aren't the sprues which interest us: Vindicator upgrade spures, Predator upgrade sprues - these are what we're looking for without the attached Rhino sprues

So I emailed FW:

Hi,

I noticed your release of an update to the Death Korps of Krieg list.  It looks like my friend and I will be having some more interesting battles of reenacting the fight for Vraks.

Are there plans on updating the Rengades and Heretics, Servants of Slaughter and Servants of Decay lists?   Those large renegade infantry squads mixed with my left over Lost and the Damned mutants would make for more fun games for sure.

Thanks for your time and thanks for making kick ass models.

Rich

And I received at 5:13 AM this morning:

Hi,
    We are just putting the finishing touches to the Renegade lists upgrade and they should be up on our website in the next few weeks.

Thanks,

Simon Kirkham

Motivation to finish my renegades has been found.   ;D

Grain of salt and all that but it's pretty encouraging.

More great news. Hopefully it reduces price pressure on Chaos Space Marine helmets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of Forgeworld, when did they release the Ork Meka Dreds?

People will pay $24 for 5 resin/plastic grey knight style models. And as much as I am sure you are proud of your sculptors, they are still very much so outclassed by forgeworld.

Its a question of money. Being able to work with king sized versions of what you are sculpting up (if you can afford the massive costs in shrinking sculpts) makes superior quality a lot easier to obtain.
Then there is 3D cad etc etc.

Who knows, maybe we´ll invest in those things as well somewhere down the line and then prices will be accordingly adjusted upwards...but then I´ll guess you will be the last one to complain, obviously.

Pyriel- wrote:Who knows, maybe we´ll invest in those things as well somewhere down the line and then prices will be accordingly adjusted upwards...but then I´ll guess you will be the last one to complain, obviously.

Attempting to paint a person with legitimate criticisms about your work as some sort of irrational critic who will always hate your products is a great way to not get their money .

Wow, the Kreig Codex really is a mess. It's like a blast from 2nd Edition.

Yeah, all firepower, no Transports!

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yeah, all firepower, no Transports!

They could have at least put in a "Chimera Motor Pool" as a Fast Attack option, if they wanted to make it difficult to mechanise the DKoK.

Wait, no Gorgon?

Nurglitch wrote:Wait, no Gorgon?

Actually it does allow 1-3 Gorgons as a Superheavy detachment, but apart from that all you get are Centaurs, which can only carry 5 men.

Are people really complaining about the Krieg codex? It's just an updated version of the old one but possibly stronger and more competitive.

I honestly like it. It´s different than the vanilla IG Codex, and allows for some interesting combo´s.

And of course, since it´s entirely free, you can just choose to not use it if you don´t like it. I think that I´ll use it for some of my army setups, but for some, like the sentinel heavy list I sometimes field, I´ll stick with the IG Codex.

Attempting to paint a person with legitimate criticisms about your work as some sort of irrational critic who will always hate your products is a great way to not get their money .

Attempting to put words never said in mouth of others as deflection based on lack of argument is in deed the epitome of internet debate.

But I give you points for a nice attempt though.

Kanluwen wrote:Honestly, I have no clue why they no longer do it.

Because keeping an inventory of thousands of product lines is impractical, time consuming, space consuming and expensive. Scaling the bitz service back made perfect sense from a business perspective. Unfortunately, where GW dropped the ball is their replacement bitz service. Rather than looking at their existing bitz service and using sales records as a way of working out what bitz to keep on sale (ie. the ones they sold lots of), they just canned the whole service, replacing it with the useless 'bitz' service we have now.

I'd also like to think that GW is clued in about the after-market 3rd party bitz suppliers out there, and see what sells quickly and what doesn't. Of course, if they were clued in about that they would have started using other sites of their own market research, but it appears GW doesn't do very much market research (how many years to make Bloodcrushers plastic?).

the_trooper wrote:Are people really complaining about the Krieg codex? It's just an updated version of the old one but possibly stronger and more competitive.

It's a bad list by almost any metric. The rules are unclear, the units are unbalanced, the options are arbitrary, the Trojan rules are missing, and even the language and formatting is not internally consistent. It's a very messy list, although it does serve as a reminded that the GW main studio team really has gotten much better at rules writing since 2nd / 3rd Editions.

That said, it's free, and it's not tournament legal, so it's not a big deal. Provided potential DKoK players are smart enough to make sure all their purchases can "count as" stock IG choices, I can see this list being a lot of fun to mess around with in Apoc, where everything gets a lot more fuzzy and balance is less important.

Dave47 wrote:... and it's not tournament legal...

The legality of a list at a tournament is the prerogative of the tournament organiser, not something inherent to the list.

Because keeping an inventory of thousands of product lines is impractical, time consuming, space consuming and expensive. Scaling the bitz service back made perfect sense from a business perspective. Unfortunately, where GW dropped the ball is their replacement bitz service. Rather than looking at their existing bitz service and using sales records as a way of working out what bitz to keep on sale (ie. the ones they sold lots of), they just canned the whole service, replacing it with the useless 'bitz' service we have now.

Hmm, maybe they simply accepted the detailed bitz service to be taken up by non GW entities (like bitz on ebay, bitzbarn etc etc) meaning the loss was acceptable or even not a loss at all?

I'd also like to think that GW is clued in about the after-market 3rd party bitz suppliers out there, and see what sells quickly and what doesn't. Of course, if they were clued in about that they would have started using other sites of their own market research, but it appears GW doesn't do very much market research (how many years to make Bloodcrushers plastic?).

Sounds logical but I dont see how GW would have access to the sales figures from all 3:rd party bitz companies out there and certainly not from the more experimental bitz companies.