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Full-on Bloodletters, Bloodthirster, PA Berzerkers, TDA Berzerkers, JP Berzerkers, and Khornate Defiler & Soulgrinder is a pretty decent list.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:he's a plastic csm bike kit with some metal bits.

Thanks. That's what he looks like. I think I'll buy him for my bike company! Chaos lord with a daemon weapon of course. I own the old codex, but his rules seem totally weird now. Wouldn't really fit.

Not a metal dreadnought.

just convert one.sheesh...That's what chaos is about!

JohnHwangDD wrote:Full-on Bloodletters, Bloodthirster, PA Berzerkers, TDA Berzerkers, JP Berzerkers, and Khornate Defiler & Soulgrinder is a pretty decent list.

so.... basically.... demon allies... berserker on foot. berserker in terminator armor. berserker with jump pack. defiler with an extra attack. souldgrinder with an extra attack. they're not going to write a whole new codex just to cover that. it's cheaper to just include it in the regular csm codex.


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Samus_aran115 wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:he's a plastic csm bike kit with some metal bits.

Thanks. That's what he looks like. I think I'll buy him for my bike company! Chaos lord with a daemon weapon of course. I own the old codex, but his rules seem totally weird now. Wouldn't really fit.

yeah his rules were bunk back then. that's why he's still available and always will be - they've got a whole warehouse somewhere of unsold doomrider models. I have the model for my bike army it's pretty cool. you have to base him on a mountain of cocaine if you wish to invoke the full power of slaanesh on the table top.

It makes no sense to do a dedicated Khorne book. But throw 4 Legions in there, and you can do a full Khorne army, with Khorne weapons & upgrades, and the whole shebang, coupled with a new Berzerker & PM sprues.

Besides, it's not like it stopped GW from doing Robes, Tabards, Wings and Furry versions of SMs.

well for what its worth I think it would be really cool if they did. imperial lap dogs get way too much love and attention.

Of course they do, which is why it'd be nice to have more stuff of any flavor, even if the updates slow down a little bit.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:well for what its worth I think it would be really cool if they did. imperial lap dogs get way too much love and attention.

You speak the truth.


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You know what it needs, more customability for the chaos lords.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:oh yeah I forgot all about that. in my cult of khorne who are the only bozos without furious charge? the lord and his elite retinue. pretty fething stupid.

+1 to this.

I kinda wish Chaos get an interim PDF codex way before an actual codex update so at the very least, Chaos get their fearless terminators back (which isn’t really asking for much).

candy.man wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:oh yeah I forgot all about that. in my cult of khorne who are the only bozos without furious charge? the lord and his elite retinue. pretty fething stupid.

+1 to this.

I kinda wish Chaos get an interim PDF codex way before an actual codex update so at the very least, Chaos get their fearless terminators back (which isn’t really asking for much).

Was curious about that.

Allies rule for chaos daemons would be nice as I am slowly building a daemon army and I already have Chaos SM.

I would like them to stay completely and utterly separate from Chaos Daemons, an army I actually might eventually play.

PSYCHIC DEFENSES!

Why does chaos not have any?! It makes no sense!

RAGE!!11




P.S. Please crush Huron Blackheart and his "legion" into red goo.

Because the Chaos Space Marines sold their souls to the Chaos Gods. It's only fair they get what they signed up for.

That said it would be nice if you could buy the Blessing of the Blood God for 10pts for Khorne Marked models. So the Chosen of Khorne would be Chaos Berzerkers with the Blessing of the Blood God. The Chosen of Tzeentch would allow all units within 12" to re-roll saves. The Chosen of Nurgle would have Poisoned Weapon (4+). The Chosen of Slaanesh would have Transfixing Gaze.

Something like Chaos Space Marines can exchange their Bolter for +1WS. Upgrade Stubborn to Fearless. Upgrade each suite of rules that turn Chaos Space Marines into Cult Troops, allowing players to take all or some or none.

Likewise it would be nice to keep Generic Daemons and give powers the opportunity of having half-formed damon leaking into reality and full fledged Bloodletters, Plague Daemons, etc, running around.

Some mid-level W2 per single HQ slot items could be useful too, like a Lieutenant, a Demagogue, and a Daemonic Herald.

Give the Daemon Prince the options as is in the Chaos Daemons book. Ditto for the Daemonic Herald.

Give them a unit of Jetbikes, just to shove the Imperial nose in it, clarify Enhanced Warriors and Crazed, and maybe make Daemonic Possession more god-specific.

Nurglitch wrote:Because the Chaos Space Marines sold their souls to the Chaos Gods. It's only fair they get what they signed up for.

You mean immortality and limitless power?

Nurglitch wrote:
That said it would be nice if you could buy the Blessing of the Blood God for 10pts for Khorne Marked models. So the Chosen of Khorne would be Chaos Berzerkers with the Blessing of the Blood God. The Chosen of Tzeentch would allow all units within 12" to re-roll saves. The Chosen of Nurgle would have Poisoned Weapon (4+). The Chosen of Slaanesh would have Transfixing Gaze.

Something like Chaos Space Marines can exchange their Bolter for +1WS. Upgrade Stubborn to Fearless. Upgrade each suite of rules that turn Chaos Space Marines into Cult Troops, allowing players to take all or some or none.

Likewise it would be nice to keep Generic Daemons and give powers the opportunity of having half-formed damon leaking into reality and full fledged Bloodletters, Plague Daemons, etc, running around.

Some mid-level W2 per single HQ slot items could be useful too, like a Lieutenant, a Demagogue, and a Daemonic Herald.

Give the Daemon Prince the options as is in the Chaos Daemons book. Ditto for the Daemonic Herald.

Give them a unit of Jetbikes, just to shove the Imperial nose in it, clarify Enhanced Warriors and Crazed, and maybe make Daemonic Possession more god-specific.

A 2 wound HQ would be nice for smaller games.

But DON'T make wings cost 60 points for a demon prince. That's obscene and ridiculous.

As for Crazed, just make it so the dread doesn't shoot his buddies unless he can't see an enemy unit.

Enhanced Warriors definitely needs clarification - does it apply to just CSM, or also to bikers, raptors, havocs, chosen, etc.?

An updated 3.5 codex.

I'd like an option to buy FNP for Nurgle troops...

grrrrr.... in the 3.5 codex collar of khorne was a 5 point, yes a 5 point wargear that nullified psychic powers on a 2+, yes on a 2+ now when someone casts a spell at us we have to just eat it. as people who live in the eye of terror chaos warriors are exposed to the power of the warp every day, they ought to have a trick or two for making sure it doesn't whack them on the battle field.

imo the hankering for the 3.5 codex is a little misguided. It was a good codex in its day but what made it good wasnt so much its content (besides the awesome background) but its content next to the other codices. Now that all of those books have changed I think you'd find if you tried to play that book regularly that you'd get your ass handed to you by some of the newer, more aggressive codices. It's just not as powerful as it used to be, aside from a few quirks.

Also the 4th ed book did something pretty important for chaos armies that I really hope they'll hold on to in the future editions - it rationalized the effects of worshipping certain gods on their mortal followers and demons. now worshipping khorne gives you... +1 attack, +1 weapon skill, and furious charge, whether you're a berserker, demon whatever. nurgle gives you +1 toughness, feel no pain, and defensive grenades, slaanesh gives you +1 attack, +1 initiative, and either sonic weapons or rending attacks + fleet of foot. Tzeentch guys get low ap attacks, a good invulnerable save, and access to more psychic powers. compared to 3.5 this system makes alot of sense. In that codex there was basically no method for deciding which cultists got which powers; the lord of change had higher initiative than the keeper of secrets IIRC, thousand sons had two wounds a piece, etc. So anyway I'm glad they cleaned that whole mess up.

But definitely legit demons. this lesser/greater demon nonsense has got to go. personally I dont care what the rules say - I've got khorne marines, I've got khorne demons, they fight together, and that's that. If someone wants to complain out comes the vulkan list and they die horribly. If they want to play nice then they get to face a less competitive (but still strong!) and far more flavorful army. Most people dont complain though.
AF

AbaddonFidelis wrote:imo the hankering for the 3.5 codex is a little misguided. It was a good codex in its day but what made it good wasnt so much its content (besides the awesome background) but its content next to the other codices. Now that all of those books have changed I think you'd find if you tried to play that book regularly that you'd get your ass handed to you by some of the newer, more aggressive codices. It's just not as powerful as it used to be, aside from a few quirks.

People aren't pining for the 3.5 codex because it was powerful, they want it because it had character. For example, Daemon Princes are supposed to be unique individuals that have been made immortal for their service to Chaos. A Khorne DP should have more options than whether he's got wings or not.

Personaly i havent played my nids since the codex changed, destroyed the way my army worked. So id be happy with it staying almost exactly the same, just lower point costs and marks on deamons/tanks.
That, or make it like the 3rd edition rule book. Cuz I read through that and it was fantastical.

AlexHolker wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:imo the hankering for the 3.5 codex is a little misguided. It was a good codex in its day but what made it good wasnt so much its content (besides the awesome background) but its content next to the other codices. Now that all of those books have changed I think you'd find if you tried to play that book regularly that you'd get your ass handed to you by some of the newer, more aggressive codices. It's just not as powerful as it used to be, aside from a few quirks.

People aren't pining for the 3.5 codex because it was powerful, they want it because it had character. For example, Daemon Princes are supposed to be unique individuals that have been made immortal for their service to Chaos. A Khorne DP should have more options than whether he's got wings or not.

Agreed!

For every Iron Warrior Heavy Support Abuser and/or Slaaneshi Siren Prince there were 5 players who just liked the variety and the ability to do a lot of different things.

It was the shoehorn approach that gave us the Skittles Warband that many weren't happy with...

Return raptors to undivided.

skittles warband..Clever indeed

Also, havocs with a MOS should be able to take up to four blastmasters. 40 points is way too much. 30 seems reasonable.

AlexHolker wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:imo the hankering for the 3.5 codex is a little misguided. It was a good codex in its day but what made it good wasnt so much its content (besides the awesome background) but its content next to the other codices. Now that all of those books have changed I think you'd find if you tried to play that book regularly that you'd get your ass handed to you by some of the newer, more aggressive codices. It's just not as powerful as it used to be, aside from a few quirks.

People aren't pining for the 3.5 codex because it was powerful, they want it because it had character. For example, Daemon Princes are supposed to be unique individuals that have been made immortal for their service to Chaos. A Khorne DP should have more options than whether he's got wings or not.

I dont disagree with that.... it was definitely the better written book.

cyrax777 wrote:Allies rule for chaos daemons would be nice as I am slowly building a daemon army and I already have Chaos SM.

Cut & Paste is *far* better than Allies, because there's no question about Codices getting out of sorts when one updates. DH & WH show this problem very clearly, which is why DH needs updating, badly.
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AlexHolker wrote:People aren't pining for the 3.5 codex because it was powerful, they want it because it had character.

I don't think so. If everything in the 3.5 Codex that wasn't a vanilla CSM had it's price doubled, nobody would have played it. The 3.5 Codex was an utter failure because it was Chaos everything-but-Space-Marines. The Daemons were clearly superior to the CSMs. The Defiler & Daemon Prince, clearly superior to the CSM stuff which the army was supposed to be built around.
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Alpharius wrote:For every Iron Warrior Heavy Support Abuser, Daemon spammer, Daemon bomber and/or Slaaneshi Siren Prince there were 5 might have been 1 or 2 players who just liked the variety and the ability to do a lot of different things. Sadly, though, these players were few and far between.

FYP.
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the_ferrett wrote:Return raptors to undivided.

To differentiate them from AMs, maybe the could get a bonus USR, like, say, H&R...

the_ferrett wrote:Return raptors to undivided.

Um, they are.

Mordoskul wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:Return raptors to undivided.

Um, they are.

he means make them non markable as Raptors used to be a cult all their own, no god followings.

Noisy_Marine:

I was thinking more of leaving themselves exposed to the Power of the Warp, which is signing up for potential immortality and limitless power, but more often mutation, madness, and death. It's like signing up to mine uranium: handling uranium ore doesn't make you more resistant to radiation, it simply means you're exposed to more of it.

Making Wings for Daemon Princes cost 60pts is what it takes for there to be an honest choice for players between taking Wings and not taking Winds. Any less and there's no reason not to take Wings. Oh, and Daemon Princes in the Chaos Space Marine list should have the appropriate Psychic Power version of whatever Gifts of Chaos a Daemon Prince may have.

Crazed is already written "so the dread doesn't shoot his buddies unless he can't see an enemy unit". If the Dreadnought goes into a Fire Frenzy, you shoot at the closest visible unit. Unfortunately this isn't clear enough for many people to receive the message that the Dreadnought only shoots at the closest unit in its 45 degree weapon lines of sight, not the unit of Chaos Space Marines directly behind it and not visible to it. Basically fratricide is a matter of tactics rather than the rules and that needs clarifying.

Enhanced Warriors could refer to three things: (1) Anything in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, (2) Anything under 'Chaos Space Marines' entry in the Forces of Chaos Section - including Chaos Space Marines, Havocs, Chosen, and Bikers, (3) The Chaos Space Marine entry in the Army List Section, the Troops choice. I think this could be solved by referring to the Troop choice as a Battle Squad.

I forgot to mention that the W2 HQ choices should have the option of being take 2 to a slot, like Heralds can be taken in Codex: Chaos Daemons.

The Lieutenant would have a rule that lets him confer a 'Veteran Skill' on a unit, like "Scout, Infiltrate, Tank Hunters, Move Through Cover, Skilled Rider, etc". The Demagogue would have a 6" aura to improve the morale and/or fighting capabilities of nearby units, and perhaps an Aspiring Sorcerer detached from the Thousand Suns, giving W2, and a single psychic power while Sorcerers would have the ability to cast two psychic powers.

Using these psychic powers I proposed.

I'm reasonably happy with the codex, sure a few things could use some tweaking, such as making the friggin demon prince not die from massed bolter or lasgun fire so easily, but there is one glaring thing that bugs me...

WHY do the special characters, direct servants and favored by a single chaos god NOT have ETERNAL WARRIOR. WTF. Honestly. Also cultists would be great.