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Either Ultramarines or Black Templars. Space Wolves come in as a close second (or third) though.

For reference, are you referring to merely temporal, non-political power?

n0t_u wrote:Ultramarines if you go by story alone (must be good if all other marines wish they were Ultramarines).
Black Templar if you go by common sense.
Grey Knights if you go by a mix of the two heavily leaning towards the first.

ElectricPaladin wrote:My chapter is the most powerful. You know which one - the one I play.

The weakest chapter? The one you play, of course.

What if they play your chapter as well?

Then I'll play a different chapter.

Another chapter that can call upon it's successors (although in a far more limited fashion) is the Dark Angels, as every successor chapters Chapter Master is a member of the DA inner circle and sworn to serve the Grand Master of the Dark Angels. This would really only be used if a large number of Fallen were found, but it theoretically could be done.

Hate to say it but Ultramarines. As was said above, Calgar can speed dial maaaaany other chapters to come help me. Also, you have to remember the Ultramarines have an entire SYSTEM. They have a higher recruitment rate just because they have a number of relativity close planets.

Castiel wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:In terms of quality of each marine, Grey Knights

In terms of numbers of their own chapter, Black Templar or Space Wolves

In terms of own numbers + calling on descendants, Ultramarines or Blood Angels (think the Assault on Baal)

Exactly what I'm saying!

So I am curious tho Castiel... how exactly does helbrecht match up to draigo?

Well for a start he isn't stuck in the Warp 24/7, which is quite an advantage. also his rules are way behind the GK's. However, I don't think he quite matches heart carving standards, I was more making the point that the Black Templars also have their own special characters.

Let me be the first to say that I think GKs suck. Their Dreadnought just looks wrong, not gothic at all, and one of their heroes wields a demon blade? Why are the DEAMONHUNTRS the only non heresy chapter to do that? It's Heresy. Fulgrim had a heretical sword once... Erebus stole one too, the same one that stabbed Horus right before he turned. Need I go on?

That's not what this is about. You can discuss that elsewhere.

Dark Angels all the way as many marines as BT and we actually listen to one master (Azrael) we train to hunt down and kill the fallen.

UM have the most successors but they can't necessariily expeect them to drop everything and come. We can

BA. If my memories are correct they have a bunch of successors but 2-3 are horribly understrength.

SW. man for man the best true marines.

GK would kill eveyone if not significantly outnumbered

Let me be the first to mention that versus the Grey Knights, numbers do not matter. Because of one man that I have given serious attention to over the last couple of weeks.

Justicar Anval Thawn.

This Grey Knight Terminator (who are already storywise capable of wiping out planets of deamons when in squads) who has already died a significant number of times yet still always comes back.
None can stand against the power of immortality.

Also, paladins are silly. Their initiation involves banishing one of the 666 most powerful deamons ever to have materialized, whilst wearing nothing but robes and armed with a sword and nothing else. Mind you, a single paladin is worth a hundred regular Grey Knights who in turn value at dozens of regular space marines. Fluffwise; that is.

1 on 1 (with avg battle brothers) GK wipe the floor with anyone else just because they have more training and better equipment.

Chapter on Chapter, BT or Space Wolves. Not only do both have numbers, but both are also very determined, and the Wolves have practice already.

In reality, as much as I hate to say it, Smurfs or DA are probably the most powerful because Calgar or Azrael just has to sneeze and they will have most if not all successor chapters to back them up. DA are especially threatening as they have no problem killing anyone who finds out about the Fal-*BLAM* Brother Chapters, we know not what you are talking about.

I would have to say ultramarines. They are the best known for a reason.

Pure Chapter-vs-Chapter slug out means Templars win. Draigo is powerful against Daemons and other warp-related entities because he was made to be; his runes, anti-psyker wargear and purity of mind won't do squat (heh, "squat") against someone who has no connection to the Warp. He's still dead hard and likely superior to any one Templar, but none of that matters when the Black Templars Chapter Fleet comes a-knockin'.

If politics is involved, Blood Angels, Dark Angels or (most likely) Ultramarines.

I'd say the Imperial Fists, for their home is Terra, the very centre of the Imperium with all of its forces & defences. They & their successor Chapters form a very tight-knit brotherhood of Astartes and this includes the Black Templars which gives them a pretty big reserve to call upon.

Shame that so many people forget IF's exist

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I'd say the Imperial Fists, for their home is Terra, the very centre of the Imperium with all of its forces & defences. They & their successor Chapters form a very tight-knit brotherhood of Astartes and this includes the Black Templars which gives them a pretty big reserve to call upon.

Shame that so many people forget IF's exist

True, the IF get not enough attention for how good they are.

I vote Blood Angels there just better then the ultramarines and they could call for back up as well

Black Templar Specialize against psykers this training would inherently prove a powerful tool against the GK chapter if there was side on side (which there would not be). Personally if you ask me who wins, BT not because of their affinity for slaying psykers being resistant as hell to them and cutting them up for existing but rather they are battlefleet chapter and their ships would more than likely out-class the Gk ships due to the amount of ship battle they already have done in the name of the Emperor while GK to my knowledge not nearly as much.

I'd go with Ultramarines. As was already mentioned, they have the advantage of being able to call on support from their numeorus successors and Codex-following Chapters, and they have the realm of Ultramar backing them up as well. They'd probably also have a lot of influence with the High Lords.

BTNeophyte wrote:1 on 1 (with avg battle brothers) GK wipe the floor with anyone else just because they have more training and better equipment.

Chapter on Chapter, BT or Space Wolves. Not only do both have numbers, but both are also very determined, and the Wolves have practice already.

In reality, as much as I hate to say it, Smurfs or DA are probably the most powerful because Calgar or Azrael just has to sneeze and they will have most if not all successor chapters to back them up. DA are especially threatening as they have no problem killing anyone who finds out about the Fal-*BLAM* Brother Chapters, we know not what you are talking about.

hahahaha why do you think we wear the robes........ to hide the bodies behind us.

also keep in mind we have a chapter that is only rumoured there is no record of them.
the disciples of caliban were asked for and no one knows why (outside of our inner circle).

we go around ad do as we please in our giant flying deathstar

Dark Angels.

They split up in name only. The Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels is still the commander of all the Unforgiven chapters.

This sort of applies to the Space Wolves too, since they only made one token successor which was then wiped out and none since. But they've suffered far more losses.

Thatguy91 wrote:One thing to keep in mind when talking about chapter vs chapter is that this really is SW's home turf as they were the and are still known as the emperors executioners and still retain their anti power armour heavy arsenal as far as I know.

I don't think there was ever any indication that the Space Wolves had large stockpiles of AP3/2 type weapons.

People are saying ultramarines are the most powerful because the can call their successor chapters to fight with them.By the same argument think about what the grey knights are,the chamber militant of theinquisition meaning an inquisitor can get whatever he wants to back up the grey knights meaning they effectively have the entire imperium as well as ad mech to back them up

Bitches please,

Nothing can overpower Imperial Guard.

Brother Coa wrote:Bitches please,

Nothing can overpower Imperial Guard.

I think you'll find that both the AdMech and the Imperial Navy would disagree. In fact, purely faction on faction, the Imperial Guard loses to everyone, as they don't have their own transports.

In that case...
Nothing can overpower the Adeptus Mechanicus - they have fleet and the biggest guns in the entire Imeprium. And they hold all the technology.
Case closed.

Castiel wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:In terms of quality of each marine, Grey Knights

In terms of numbers of their own chapter, Black Templar or Space Wolves

In terms of own numbers + calling on descendants, Ultramarines or Blood Angels (think the Assault on Baal)

Exactly what I'm saying!

Castiel wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:In terms of quality of each marine, Grey Knights

In terms of numbers of their own chapter, Black Templar or Space Wolves

In terms of own numbers + calling on descendants, Ultramarines or Blood Angels (think the Assault on Baal)

Exactly what I'm saying!

I don't think an argument can really be made past that. IMHO you two are correct, just correct period. (regarding the original question of this thread)

Either Grey Knights (quality/access to weaponry) or Black Templars (size).

Dark Angels seem to have close, almost subversive ties to many successor chapters such as the Angels of Absolution/Angels of Redemption/Disciples of Caliban as well. My guess is the DA command these chapters loyalty much more then the Adeptus Terra, and this DA alliance is something of a shadow empire.

It also depends in other ways. Defending? Imperial Fists. Urban? Probably Salamanders. Assault? Blood Angels or Space Wolves.

Most of the Chapters are something like this.

Ultras - control a whole quadrant of the Imperium. Also - following the fluff, they seem to conveniently be absent from the most horrific bloodbaths so they are relatively intact no beat up like the crimson fists, etc.

Ultramarines because Matt fething Ward said all other space marines aspire to be like Ultramarines and Marneus Calgar is the spiritual liege to many chapters. So being the spiritual liege and all, he can call on Grey Knights to help beat down Grey Knights. ~