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Tim, is there a particular reason you aren't interested in Sabol? I've used Sabol trays and bags for sometime and find them very useful. They'd have my vote.

Platuan4th wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:

The Battlefoam system has quite spacious, hard foam slots in a canvas bag. The KR system has soft blue foam that 'hugs' your models restricting all movement, which is then placed in hard card cases, which (if you carry them) are then transported in a canvas bag. I'd say this KR system offers better actual protection and the whole system (say, a Kaiser 2 bag with two KR Multicases) is about the same cost as a standard Battlefoam bag.

The problem with foam that "hugs", is it can cause paint to rub off. Also, Battle Foam slots may seem spacious, but the models aren't moving around like you seem to think. I've intentionally shaken my trays around with little to no model jiggle to show how well they work to people asking about it(pretty much my entire group has switched from Sabol to Battle Foam after they saw and asked about my various cases).

Ok, makes sense.

Though I must say, I've never experienced paint rubbing off in my blue foam - you can, of course, order a number of different sizes of compartment, but I pack them pretty tightly. And no jiggle at all...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ruminator wrote:The KR trays/cardboard inserts are designed to be modular. You can use them to store stuff at home and then just take what you need in your aluminium case. You really don't just wander round carrying a cardboard box unless you're a cheapskate though. You can happily stand on the aluminium case without it breaking so not sure why anyone's worried about this.

Weirdly, I'm not a fan of the aluminium cases - they have no advantage over Battlefoam in 'modularity', since in both situations, you need to to swap trays of models into your case.

I'd always use the Multicase/Kaiser bag combo, which gives me storage/army/case modularity as well as the ability to swap trays as you describe.

The aluminum cases ARE pretty tough though - if we're looking at serious protection, then the alumnium KR cases and the plastic GW cases are the 'hardest' on the market...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and guys

PLEASE add your reviews and recommendations to this article - http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Model_Case_Reviews_and_Recommendations

This question comes up every couple of weeks, so it would be great to have everyone's opinions in the same place!

I've got 4 or 5 different Battlefoam cases that I use for transport. Most of my armies are now permanently in Battlefoam trays for normal storage and I just slide them into whatever case fits what I'm using that day. It's a great system.

When you consider that these armies can and will last you the rest of your life, it makes sense to spend a little cash on storage. It's a long term investment to protect a long term investment.

I started with Sabol. I tried KR. I now use Battlefoam. Doesn't mean you should, but I doubt you'd be sorry... I don't know anyone that's bought Battlefoam cases and then regretted it. Normally they get hooked and try and move everything to Battlefoam.

From this thread, I take it then that Battlefoam>KR>Sabol. I'm pretty much new to gaming myself and will probably need to invest in some sort of army cary case for the future.

spacewolf407 wrote:From this thread, I take it then that Battlefoam>KR>Sabol. I'm pretty much new to gaming myself and will probably need to invest in some sort of army cary case for the future.

Again, from the thread, it depends what you're looking for

Cases that feel/look nice?

Battlefoam > KR

But, I'd still argue that for actual protection of models, or for storage/modularity

KR > Battlefoam



To be honest, both systems are decent miniature storage systems - capable of keeping models safe from harm, having options for storage and modularity (since Battlefoam started selling KR-style card storage boxes for their trays), and being expandable. One just costs twice as much.

/facetiousness

As the others say. I've tried both. Battlefoam is more expensive but in general higher quality, KR is cheaper and quite decent for the price.

I would go with KR, even if you do have an extra $150 to throw away (depending on your army's size) wouldn't you rather spend that $150 on more models, a videogame station, a new army, etc? I know I plan to spend about $80 on KR in the next couple days, I priced it out on BF and they wanted me to pay over $160. I think I'll save myself about $80, and besides, KR protects your models better anyway (tighter fit), of course, it is debatable.

ArbitorIan wrote:But, I'd still argue that for actual protection of models, or for storage/modularity

Semi rigid foam beats soft foam for protection every day. Whether it hugs it or not, it's left to the case only to do the protection, rather than the case and the foam together. Seeing as there's people already posted in this thread about shaking and roughly moving Battlefoam cases with nary a scratch on a model, I think you're taking the wrong message if you think Battlefoam doesn't protect. Or selectively ignoring posts that disagree with you.

-Loki- wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:But, I'd still argue that for actual protection of models, or for storage/modularity

Semi rigid foam beats soft foam for protection every day. Whether it hugs it or not, it's left to the case only to do the protection, rather than the case and the foam together. Seeing as there's people already posted in this thread about shaking and roughly moving Battlefoam cases with nary a scratch on a model, I think you're taking the wrong message if you think Battlefoam doesn't protect. Or selectively ignoring posts that disagree with you.

The custom cut trays from BF I have for a great many models/vehicles are perfect. They fit like a glove. Hard to damage anything like that (although I do tend to prop up models with flying bases/long stems/wobbly proportions so they are snug top and bottom as well).

I picked up the battle foam stacker box and a tray for my assault marines. I personally think that this is one of my better hobby investments... Much better than the plano (walmart pistol case).

I've never even seen a Battlefoam case, let alone use one so I can't make that comparison, but I love my KR cases, and don't have an issue with paint rubbing.

It's the modularity that wins it for me - I have a single Kaiser2 bag, then my various armies are sorted into their own cardboard cases (one for my two Uncharted Seas fleets, a couple for my Confrontation, etc). Whatever I'm playing I just put into the bag and off I go. I also have an Aquila for skirmish games - if I want something specific out of my big cases I can just pull the tray, stick it in the Aquila and take that.

Battlefoam has really nice cases, but they're not that cheap, and they can take a while to deliver (and often take a good while for custom tray orders).

KR cases have good sized soft foam trays (I fit around 80 base infantry to a tray (2 to a slot)), and personally like the Alluminium and modular card cases.

They're also cheaper than Battlefoam, which is a major plus for me.

-Loki- wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:But, I'd still argue that for actual protection of models, or for storage/modularity

Semi rigid foam beats soft foam for protection every day. Whether it hugs it or not, it's left to the case only to do the protection, rather than the case and the foam together. Seeing as there's people already posted in this thread about shaking and roughly moving Battlefoam cases with nary a scratch on a model, I think you're taking the wrong message if you think Battlefoam doesn't protect. Or selectively ignoring posts that disagree with you.

Sorry, I have friends who use Battlefoam, I've seen their custom trays, etc, I even have a Pack Mini myself. I'm not saying that 'Battlefoam doesn't protect'.

However, I think I wasn't making my point clear.

Both systems offer as much protection as you're ever likely to need for your models. There are plenty of people posting on here on both sides who will say that they've never had a problem with either system. In a straight out contest, I would say that the KR full system offers slightly better protection (soft foam, rigid card case & canvas bag vs semi-rigid foam & canvas bag), but it's a moot point. You'd have to be doing the case some serious, regular damage to actually see a difference, and in that case you're better off going for a hard plastic or metal case (like the KR aluminium, or the GW plastic case).

Battlefoam costs significantly more. It doesn't offer significantly more protection.

Though both companies offer large ranges of custom foam to fit certain models/armies, Battlefoam's custom foam service is better and their pre-cut range bigger. Though both companies have very modular and easily storable systems, KRs modularity and storability is slightly better (no tray swapping when you get home).

Battlefoam's range is less confusing - KR is well known for having a confusing tray naming system if you're not used to it. Battlefoam look cooler, and it's made of more expensive materials. If these last few points justify the 50/60% price jump for you, then go for it.

ArbitorIan wrote:KRs modularity and storability is slightly better (no tray swapping when you get home).

How is there no tray swapping when KRs modularity is built around tray swapping? Sure, you're swapping groups of trays at a time, but the whole KR experience is based around storing trays in bundles in cardboard boxes, and swapping them in and out of a hard case when you want to use whatever is in those bundles. It's tray swapping, even if they're grouped in cardboard boxes.

If you're sticking with a single case of either company, and you have a significantly large collection, you'll be doing plenty of tray swapping with both products. The question is - are you sure you won't be transporting unneeded trays when you group them into carboard boxes, or do you want the flexibility of swapping per tray.

I don't use any foam currently, and am concerned about paint rubbing off. I've heard the KR foam is softer and helps avoid this. Can anyone who has used it (or preferably, both) confirm that or comment on it?

I use Battlefoam, and I'll be honest, I've had paint rub off one model - a primed finecast Hive Guard. My finished and sealed models haven't had the problem, so I'm willing to put it down to the primer not sticking to the finecast resin as well as it should have, likely due to release agents.

I've used GW mostly cases over the years, and some pluckfoam stuff from a branch I cant remember the name of. But if you really want a quality product that keeps your models safe, has loads of room and is build to last then Battlefoam is simply best. People tend to nag about prices, but guys, seriously. A good product costs money. And please dont gimme that BS that you dont need to fork over a lot of cash for something good. You want quallity, you pay for it. And battlefoam has quality to spare. even if their infomercials are cheesy as all hell

I most would just repeat what AribtorIan has posted so will just add +1 to that and add that I thought that KR does custom cut trays too if that is a big driver for you.

Oh and in terms of survivability, my guard currently reside in a KR cardcase that has been ripped since the day I got it (freebie from Wayland), If it has held out inspite of the damage for 3 years or tournament i'd say an undammaged one will okay.

RiTides wrote:I don't use any foam currently, and am concerned about paint rubbing off. I've heard the KR foam is softer and helps avoid this. Can anyone who has used it (or preferably, both) confirm that or comment on it?

I'm on my 5th/6th KR case and have never had that to be a problem. I would love to say that was down to properly varnishing but I never quite get round to that!

As for BF I did look into them and tried them out but chose not go with it on aesthetics and soft bags. The foam always seemed fine though.

-Loki- wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:KRs modularity and storability is slightly better (no tray swapping when you get home).

How is there no tray swapping when KRs modularity is built around tray swapping? Sure, you're swapping groups of trays at a time, but the whole KR experience is based around storing trays in bundles in cardboard boxes, and swapping them in and out of a hard case when you want to use whatever is in those bundles. It's tray swapping, even if they're grouped in cardboard boxes.

If you're sticking with a single case of either company, and you have a significantly large collection, you'll be doing plenty of tray swapping with both products. The question is - are you sure you won't be transporting unneeded trays when you group them into carboard boxes, or do you want the flexibility of swapping per tray.

The system you describe is only the case with the aluminium cases.

In the KR Kaiser/card case system, the canvas bags (the Kaiser bags) carry the card cases, not the individual trays. So, when I want to play with my CSM army, I pick the card CSM army box off the shelf and drop it in the Kaiser bag, and then leave. No trays are taken out or swapped between cases. No models are taken out and swapped. All my armies are stored in the card cases, which are very cheap. I only have to buy a Kaiser bag once. My Kaiser bag expands to hold one or two card cases (for big armies). I have a very large collection - 8 armies or so, and maybe 13 card cases. I almost never have to do any tray swapping.

In the BF system, using their card storage, you need to take the individual trays out of the canvas bag and put them into a storage box on your shelf. Either that, or you buy a whole BF bag for each army at great expense. As I said, it's such a small difference it doesn't really matter - swapping BF trays takes a matter of minutes. But I'd say the KR one is more modular, because of the lack of tray-swapping

The KR Aluminium cases are a whole other thing - they are much more like BF in that they hold trays and, assuming you still store in cardboard cases, you'd need to swap trays like in the BF system. I don't use their aluminium cases.

I agree your point that you don't want to be carrying around 'empties' when you don't need to. Surely this is a problem with both systems though? If you buy a Pack 432, and then you want to put your small, two tray, 1000pt army in it, you're going to have to pad out the rest with empties, or buy a smaller BF case as well?

I do have the Ali KR case as well. It's prett damn good and doesn't really look like a box of toys which is nice.

Swapping trays in and out really is the work of a few seconds so no biggy.

That's said I don't use it often because the card cases really are robust enough for all my uses, especially now I have the backpack as well.

notprop wrote:I do have the Ali KR case as well. It's prett damn good and doesn't really look like a box of toys which is nice.

Swapping trays in and out really is the work of a few seconds so no biggy.

That's said I don't use it often because the card cases really are robust enough for all my uses, especially now I have the backpack as well.

I don't know if you've tried, but do the Card KR cases fit into the Alluminium cases? (I'm assuming not, but if they do....)

ArbitorIan wrote:The system you describe is only the case with the aluminium cases.

In the KR Kaiser/card case system, the canvas bags (the Kaiser bags) carry the card cases, not the individual trays. So, when I want to play with my CSM army, I pick the card CSM army box off the shelf and drop it in the Kaiser bag, and then leave. No trays are taken out or swapped between cases. No models are taken out and swapped. All my armies are stored in the card cases, which are very cheap. I only have to buy a Kaiser bag once. My Kaiser bag expands to hold one or two card cases (for big armies). I have a very large collection - 8 armies or so, and maybe 13 card cases. I almost never have to do any tray swapping.

Purely semantics. You're still tray swapping. Whether they're individual trays or in a box system, if you are swapping those in and out of the case that you're actually holding them all in to transport somewhere, you're swapping those trays in and out of the case as needed, whether they're bundled in a cardboard box or individual.

While you have a point about needing to pad out a battlefoam case with empty trays, I'd much rather that than take trays full of models Im not using and leave them sitting to the side of a shop while I play. If someone grabs my bag and runs, they get some empty trays. If it was a KR case with some trays of models in there that were brought along because I'd bundled them with trays of models I wanted to use, they'd get my trays and a bunch of my models.

-Loki- wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:The system you describe is only the case with the aluminium cases.

In the KR Kaiser/card case system, the canvas bags (the Kaiser bags) carry the card cases, not the individual trays. So, when I want to play with my CSM army, I pick the card CSM army box off the shelf and drop it in the Kaiser bag, and then leave. No trays are taken out or swapped between cases. No models are taken out and swapped. All my armies are stored in the card cases, which are very cheap. I only have to buy a Kaiser bag once. My Kaiser bag expands to hold one or two card cases (for big armies). I have a very large collection - 8 armies or so, and maybe 13 card cases. I almost never have to do any tray swapping.

Purely semantics. You're still tray swapping. Whether they're individual trays or in a box system, if you are swapping those in and out of the case that you're actually holding them all in to transport somewhere, you're swapping those trays in and out of the case as needed, whether they're bundled in a cardboard box or individual.

It's not semantics. There is definitely a difference between picking a box off a shelf, and having to open up said box and swap trays in and out of it with other boxes. One takes longer than the other.

-Loki- wrote:While you have a point about needing to pad out a battlefoam case with empty trays, I'd much rather that than take trays full of models Im not using and leave them sitting to the side of a shop while I play. If someone grabs my bag and runs, they get some empty trays. If it was a KR case with some trays of models in there that were brought along because I'd bundled them with trays of models I wanted to use, they'd get my trays and a bunch of my models.

I don't know why this isn't the case with both systems? Why do you think a KR case couldn't be padded out with empty foam, in exactly the same way?

If 'empty sections' is a problem, then surely the best solution is multiple, smaller cases? Or expandable cases? I have both of those options, since a standard KR case = half a pack 432. If I have an army of say, 150 models, I just take one case, collapse my bag to fit one, and there's no empty foam. With a pack 432 I'd have to fill the rest of the case with empty foam and take along a bag twice the size I need? Or buy a separate, smaller BF case.

I mean, all this is moot - it really makes no difference to your model-packing experience, but for the sake of accuracy, I'd say that the KR system is more modular.

Its a tough choice. I was set on buying a BF bag at one point then my buddy mentions KR's stuff is cheaper and seems to hold a lot. Just from their websites I can tell you that I like the BF trays because they seem more modular (talking about the pluck foam). But the KR bags and cases look sturdy enough and aren't that hard on the eyes...in fact I kind of like the look of the aluminum case... reminds me of my old tool box when I was in trade school... Now THAT was a sturdy 'bag'.

...in the meantime, I'm a Sabol guy. Its kind of what I started out with and its what I know.

You could do what I did when I didn't have a tray for some models I was working on: Cardboard box + layers of towels. haha

KF, if just for the fact that I have seen correspondence from the Battlefoam team on various message boards, and heard their podcast 40k radio. The owner comes across as an arrogant douche.

Not to mention another employee, co-host of the 40k radio podcast is also a dick. After an unsuccessful court case where Battlefoam tried to sue outrider and were told by the judge to go an 'take some sober reflection'. He posted this message on these forums...

Kinghammer wrote:

outriderhobbies wrote:@Kinghammer

Since you work for Battle Foam, LLC, why don't you tell us if the Warstore got the same C&D.

Oh, and by the way everyone, I got the same letter yesterday as well. And in case you all didn't know, Kinghammer is Kyle Kinghorn. Formerly of Empire Games in Arizona, and current employee of Battle Foam, LLC.

Brian Wade,

Not formerly of Empire games. The same store where you came to sell you crap foam and we told you to beat street. Your the same B. wade who toured BF facility and then went and "started" his own company, then admitted on a podcast it was not his idea and you stole it. The same devout Mormon that use fowl language and lied in a civil court case where I was a witness to. Not very pious. thank god you had your buddy judge rule in your favor than later had the case relocated and thrown out because it was garbage.

If you wanted to air stuff we can do this.

I think the expensive prices are to account for the gakker tax the staff at battlefoam must owe in spades.

cincydooley wrote:

SickSix wrote:Portable Warfare!

Care to elaborate?

I've only looked at them because they offer a pink bag for my wife. But when I realized that no battlefoam trays could fit inside, I passed. I have no real interest in the Pluck Foam.

The KR foam is nice, but it's a bit too soft for my tastes and doesn't have a rigid bottom which I personally prefer. I hate their bags, which is why I never get any, and their trays don't fit any of the battlefoam bags either. If they did, I'd buy more of em.

Battlefoam is way overpriced. PortableWarfare's foam is of great quality. The trays are cheap, and I have figured out that I could build extra trays with the plucked out foam lol.

If you have the money to throw away, sure go with battlefoam. I like to try and get the most I can for my money, and I also like to be different. I love my bag and will probably get another as my army is getting fairly big.

SickSix wrote:Battlefoam is way overpriced. [...]

If you have the money to throw away, sure go with battlefoam. I like to try and get the most I can for my money, and I also like to be different.

You sure about that?

The Portable Warfare Sergeant bag holds 12" of foam, same as the Battle Foam 720 - so at $87.95 it seems like a much better deal than the BF 720 which is 149.99 (both with pluck foam loadout). However - the Portable Warfare trays are only 13"x7.5", while the BF trays are 15.5"x12".

Now, I'm not used to imperial units, so correct me if I'm wrong, but:

PWF Sergeant: 13 * 7.5 * 12 = 1170 cubic inches => 13.30 cubic inches per dollar.
BF 720: 15.5 * 12 * 12 = 2232 cubic inches => 14.88 cubic inches per dollar.
and for fun, the BF 432: 15.5 * 12 * 7.5 = 1395 cubic inches => 13.55 cubic inches per dollar ($102.99).

Also, it's really when you start using the (more space effective) army-specific or custom trays that BF really shines, and the BF bags look a lot sturdier than the PWF one.


Of course, if you have the pink bag it's totally worth it.

+1 (like the eighth person to agree) with ArbitorIan. What he is saying is making complete sense and its true.

I hate to say it at this point I think Loki is just saying whatever he can to make himself not feel bad about buying an inferior product for more money. He bought BF and now is realizing he may have made a wrong choice and this explains why his defensivness of it is slowly becoming offensive at people and is offensive to people.

KR is better. Yes battlefoam is more expensive, but it is worse than KR. Just because BF is made out of more expensive materials does not mean it is better, and in this case, its not better, its worse. If KR costed more than BF I would still purchase KR.

Ryan_A wrote:
KR is better. Yes battlefoam is more expensive, but it is worse than KR.

There are some of us who don't think in completely black and white terms. KR is not better than BF, in the same way BF is not better than KR. I have a KR case and a BF case and my BF case is hands down a better product. That's my experience and 0.02$, just as yours is that KR is a better product. Your opinion is not fact and stating it as such does not make it so.

Blacksails wrote:

Ryan_A wrote:
KR is better. Yes battlefoam is more expensive, but it is worse than KR.

There are some of us who don't think in completely black and white terms. KR is not better than BF, in the same way BF is not better than KR. I have a KR case and a BF case and my BF case is hands down a better product. That's my experience and 0.02$, just as yours is that KR is a better product. Your opinion is not fact and stating it as such does not make it so.

No, it really is a better product. KR does its job much better than battlefoam, it protects the models better and its modularity is supreme. While BF is a more expensive foam and has many positives compared to KR, the positives are not favorable for protecting miniatures.

Lets be utilitarian here, KR has many more important aspects of model protection than BF, though BF is an exellent product, and they both do their job supremely, KR does have a few advantages that bring it over the top compared to BF (I won't list these advantages and comparisons, they've been done several times in this thread), but don't be fooled, THERE IS A BETTER PRODUCT, in EVERY comparison. Lets be honest, one does the job it is designed to do much better. SURE there are scenarios in which BF is better, but WHAT MATTERS, is BY IN LARGE FOR THE MOST PART, which one is better? The answer is KR.