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...How often are you guys running into S10 weapons? Besides Railguns (relatively rare, Tau aren't a popular army), Vindicators (easy to avoid), and Prism Cannon combined shots (relatively rare since they're competing for slots with a lot of other stuff now and nine-War-Walker lists seem to be in fashion), I'm not sure there is much outside of walkers/Monstrous Creatures in close combat and horribly inaccurate artillery. It's a weakness, true, but one that's difficult to exploit...

A grot killing a Daemon Prince in one shot would definitely go down on my all-time record of most insanely awesome things to ever occur in a 40k game, right along with Eldrad gibbing four Carnifexes in two turns with Mind War in an Apocalypse game.

Steffo wrote:
What else is gonna do it? Death Ray can't, demolisher cannon can't, i have run out of strength 10 stuff.

Until it gets grounded.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Am I alone in the "it must be a miss-print" camp?

Pretty much yeah. Why would you assume it's a misprint?

The DP in CD has it as does every Daemon there though and it seemed like they were trying to bring the CSM ones in line. If they don't FAQ them to have EW, then just simply take them from CD allies instead, easy enough.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
...How often are you guys running into S10 weapons? Besides Railguns (relatively rare, Tau aren't a popular army), Vindicators (easy to avoid), and Prism Cannon combined shots (relatively rare since they're competing for slots with a lot of other stuff now and nine-War-Walker lists seem to be in fashion), I'm not sure there is much outside of walkers/Monstrous Creatures in close combat and horribly inaccurate artillery. It's a weakness, true, but one that's difficult to exploit...

A grot killing a Daemon Prince in one shot would definitely go down on my all-time record of most insanely awesome things to ever occur in a 40k game, right along with Eldrad gibbing four Carnifexes in two turns with Mind War in an Apocalypse game.

Although, If my librarian or Khan gets into combat with it, and i get lucky, He will get instakilled.

A quick list of what can now ID the prince:

Railguns
Ghazghkull
Force Weapons
Vibro-cannons (on a 6)
Bone Swords
Demolisher cannons
Khan's Moonfang sword (on a 6)
All Dreads with a DCCW
Dreadknights w/ hammer
Draigo
Mephiston
Lysander
...and a few more I likely missed.

Hope you guys are ace at rolling 5+!

It truly is a bummer. My brother is a Chaos player and I tell him that I allow eternal warrior on his Daemon Prince and Kharne because it doesn't make sense. Doesn't make for a good and proper fight when tough enemies just die to my power klaw in one hit.

Until it gets grounded.

True but that will unlikely be happening on turn 1, since you can hide, deploy out of range of the majority of those high volume small arms fire which will be forcing the grounding test, giving you a chance to take out the strength 10 weapons.

Add to that a fair few units would have to shoot at it to ground it 6's hit, then 1 or 2 failed grounding test, and if you were taking that much fire in 5th you would probably be dead anyway since the DP T5 3+ save was not as tough as a plague marine(although my DPs seemed to tank so much damage in 5th(the dice gods loved me)).

In that time the rest of your line assuming you did not fly a DP towards the enemy by itself. Your bikers, raptors, oblits, maulers, and rhinos will be absorbing a few less units worth of fire.

I am just saying i can work with flying monsterous DPs and don't see the loss of EW as a huge thing and if it came up i could play to mitigate the effects of it.

The leadership 9 thing is worse.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Railguns - granted, turn 1 hide, its tau....
Ghazghkull- combat
Force Weapons- combat
Vibro-cannons (on a 6)- I think it is the D-cannon, plus its a blast so DP has to be grounded, and on a 6, plus its eldar, does anyone run D-cannons over warwalkers?
Bone Swords - Close Combat
Demolisher cannons - Have to be grounded, can be out maneuvered.
Khan's Moonfang sword (on a 6) - Close Combat on a 6
All Dreads with a DCCW - Close Combat, hope to kill them first with smash, plus dreads are crap now.
Dreadknights w/ hammer- Close Combat
Draigo - CC
Mephiston -CC
Lysander -CC

Well looks like DPs have to be more careful about the targets they charge. But still out of everything in the game that is not that many things that can do it, with most of them being in CC.

The Blood Angel Stormravens make quick work of any flying creature.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Really they arent?
MY rail guns have new targets

I doubt you will have many targets... nobody really plans on taking them anymore.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
...How often are you guys running into S10 weapons? Besides Railguns (relatively rare, Tau aren't a popular army), Vindicators (easy to avoid), and Prism Cannon combined shots (relatively rare since they're competing for slots with a lot of other stuff now and nine-War-Walker lists seem to be in fashion), I'm not sure there is much outside of walkers/Monstrous Creatures in close combat and horribly inaccurate artillery. It's a weakness, true, but one that's difficult to exploit...

A grot killing a Daemon Prince in one shot would definitely go down on my all-time record of most insanely awesome things to ever occur in a 40k game, right along with Eldrad gibbing four Carnifexes in two turns with Mind War in an Apocalypse game.

Although, If my librarian or Khan gets into combat with it, and i get lucky, He will get instakilled.

If your librarian or Khan manage to get a hit in. The thing about the new daemon prince is it's something you really, really don't want to get into assault with.

Feel free to take a Daemon Prince from Daemons codex in an allied detachment. Those are still Eternal Warriors. Just sayin...

More glory to the Medusa siege gun then! Just gotta ground the thing first.

Xyrael wrote:
Feel free to take a Daemon Prince from Daemons codex in an allied detachment. Those are still Eternal Warriors. Just sayin...

As someone said before : if the answer is "take allies", then there must be something strange in the codex to begin with.

 Seb wrote:

Xyrael wrote:
Feel free to take a Daemon Prince from Daemons codex in an allied detachment. Those are still Eternal Warriors. Just sayin...

As someone said before : if the answer is "take allies", then there must be something strange in the codex to begin with.

That's not the answer to everything though, just to not being able to play with a DP without EW.

Actually an allied bloodthirster or lord of change will be my replacement demon prince.

I have to take a soul grinder in my allied heavy support to replace my now just as useless defiler.

Wow is this a bad codex. You can't even field two of the most popular choices (competitively).

Kevlar wrote:
Actually an allied bloodthirster or lord of change will be my replacement demon prince.

I have to take a soul grinder in my allied heavy support to replace my now just as useless defiler.

Wow is this a bad codex. You can't even field two of the most popular choices (competitively).

I disagree, but time will tell I guess.


As a side note, since when are Defilers a popular, competetive choice? I can agree on competetive, they're much better than people give them credit for (or, well, in the 4th ed 'dex at least, can't say anything about the new one yet), but they haven't been very popular in my experience.

yeah,
Disappointed with daemon princes in the new codex.
In the old codex I used to be able to run a plague marine army with 2 bad ass DP HQs.
Now I have to take a lord to make the Plague marines troops, my remaining bad ass DP costs a small fortune and can be instagibed.

On the whole I like the new codex, I think, but i've not noticed all the minor losses like fearful obliterators.
Has anyone made a thread/list for exposing/tracking all the changes both good and bad that might have been overlooked?

Panic...

Are oblits not daemons? Doesn't the USR daemon give fearless, fear, and a 5+ invulnerable?

And to add to the list of S10 instagib:

Railguns - granted, turn 1 hide, its tau....
Ghazghkull(or any generic ork warboss with a claw...)- combat
Force Weapons- combat(you will most certainly face entire armies with force weapons)
I think it is the D-cannon, plus its a blast so DP has to be grounded, and on a 6, plus its eldar, does anyone run D-cannons over warwalkers?
Bone Swords - Close Combat
Demolisher cannons - Have to be grounded, can be out maneuvered.
Manticore- Needs to be grounded but its easy for guard to ground stuff with tons of anti air and tons of low strength shooting.
Khan's Moonfang sword (on a 6) - Close Combat on a 6
All Dreads with a DCCW - Close Combat, hope to kill them first with smash, plus dreads are crap now.
Dreadknights w/ hammer- Close Combat
Any MC in the game with smash(to my knowledge there are no S4 MCs
Fugan(he can smash like an MC)
Draigo - CC
Mephiston -CC
Lysander -CC

No, just fear and invulnerable.

There is tons of things that can only ID the prince in CC, but unless you want him as a very expensive or substandard sorcerer, he will want to be in CC a lot. Otherwise his high WS and attack are just for show and you're paying for a really limited lfyer of sorts.

I guess it's true that the wings are even more of an auto-include now, because most people seme to assume they are always there instead of being an upgrade that knocks the basiic cost to 200+ before other upgrades.

Unless you want him to just go around Vector Striking stuff so you never need to worry about him being hit back...unless he is grounded, which will happen.

If I remember correctly, you should add the Necron Tachyon Arrow to the list of ranged weapons that are Str 10. (one use only)
All Str D weapons as well if you're including Apoc items...

That's funny. My daemon daemon prince is eternal warrior. Oh and t6. And cheaper!. Those csm chumps can always be my allies though....

No EW seems to be the way GW is taking the game. Tyranid gribblies lost their EW now DPs have, wait til the new Daemon book comes out and all the daemons just get the Daemon special rule with nothing else extra.

Doom I say, doom and gloom!

Seriously, it's a new book with lots of shiny new toys and different rules; obviously if you're wanting to play it the same as the old book, you're not going to be able to.

Marine credo: Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Either that or take lots of beasts (or is it spawn?) because those suckers are nasty with a lord in their unit.

I'm just seeing a lot of whining that the DP isn't invincible now lol.

Maybe I'm bitter cause I play guard and our only bad ass IC like that is Marbo whose a suicide unit haha.

It's probably a new direction GW is taking the game and I actually like it, he shouldn't be eternal after a 25 pound shell lands on his head. Anything turns into a red mist.

It's not that the DP is no longer invincible. Even in the old book, it was often still just a T5 or T6 3+, and a few units of AT fire would still put him down. There was also the potential for him to just get torrented off the board with bolter grade fire. All of this is still true, he costs more, and now some things just pop him instantly on top of all that. Before, if you wanted him gone, you'd have to at least devote a moderate amount of shooting to the task. Now, certain armies can do the same task with minimal shooting.

Incidentally, any Grey Knight unit with Hammerhand and a Nemesis hammer can splatter him too, as can anything on a Thunderwolf with fist or hammer. I find it funny a bearded dude with a wolf can be Eternal Warrior and a being half-woven from the immaterium isn't.

 GreyHamster wrote:
It's not that the DP is no longer invincible. Even in the old book, it was often still just a T5 or T6 3+, and a few units of AT fire would still put him down. There was also the potential for him to just get torrented off the board with bolter grade fire. All of this is still true, he costs more, and now some things just pop him instantly on top of all that. Before, if you wanted him gone, you'd have to at least devote a moderate amount of shooting to the task. Now, certain armies can do the same task with minimal shooting.

Incidentally, any Grey Knight unit with Hammerhand and a Nemesis hammer can splatter him too, as can anything on a Thunderwolf with fist or hammer. I find it funny a bearded dude with a wolf can be Eternal Warrior and a being half-woven from the immaterium isn't.

Well I'm just saying, maybe when the their new Dex comes out he won't be anymore? It sucks that Chaos is the first to be hit with this new direction but if you take it from a viewpoint of "there will be less ET's" in general I don't view it as a bad thing. It kind of puts a damper on what do people call it, "death star" units or whatever?

Though it will take awhile to come into effect... so that sucks too if I'm accurate.

Zoanthropes can also insta kill him now aswell

 Testify wrote:
Am I alone in the "it must be a miss-print" camp?

If you're grown-up about it rather than assuming that GW make deliberately bad rules, it must get EW. Maybe the guy who wrote the entry assumed that "deamon" gave EW?

But still, I'd wait 'til the FAQ's out before jumping to conclusions.

well thats ok, I'll just assume that the +3" to running on a slaanesh DP was a miss-print and that it gets that for charging, oh and blast masters only being in units of 10 or more? total miss-print, it must just be for units of 6 or 12 seeing as 12/6 is more fitting. they must have meant that. and dont get me started on units of over 10 plague zombies. miss-prints every where

there's a reason we have printed rules and FAQ's, not just basing rules off assumptions

at any rate, no EW is a pain in the ass but then again, when you're a flying MC who can only be shot on a 6+ I guess you dont need it so long as you pick your targets wisely :/ looking at the current codex lords may be a far better choice along with sorcs

So your very fighty CC orintated Hq choice can be killed by str10 weapons.

Just like most of the other IC's out there.

Deal with it

Hetelic wrote:
So your very fighty CC orintated Hq choice can be killed by str10 weapons.

Just like most of the other IC's out there.

Deal with it

He costs far more than most other independent characters and has had the rule or access to it for two editions.