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Grey Templar wrote:A Jedi master might be able to do serious damage to a Marine chapter, but he certaintly couldn't wipe one.
Librarians would be a major sticking point. 10 dudes of his level of power, who have NO qualms about killing him, would likely overwhelm him. Yoda excepted, cause, well, he's Yoda!
a Jedi's moral code would be his undoing. they will take prisoners and don't engage in needlesss killing. its all find and dandy in their universe, but when the prisoner you are taking will likely be able to break out of whatever restraining item you place him in and break your neck when your back is turned it isn't a good idea. The marine's mental preparedness would mean the Jedi wouldn't always sense the maliciousness, assuming there was any(ala Episode 3)
Jedi is like the word Samurai, it is both singular and plural. When I made the comment about some Master Jedi wiping a whole marine chapter I was talking about more then one. Basically the Jedi are straight copied from Eastern culture, both Samurai (servants of the republic instead of servants of a diaymo) and Shaolin Monks. They have a buddhist outlook. However, that doesn't mean they are pacifists. Buddhists have waged war before and they train in the arts of war to defend both their lives and their way of life.
If a space marine attacks a Jedi, there will be no moral interruption of the Jedi not killing the Marine. There will be no debate, there will be no qualms about it. Self preservation is an accepted and practiced idea in Buddhist arts. I took 7 years of Buddhist based martial arts, and there are differences in philosophy for sure, but when it comes to combat they do not hold back.
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the Eldar!
Crom wrote:I am not a fan boy nor do I really care who can win in a fight between a Jedi and a Space Marine. What I am doing is just basically posting information and trying to keep it balanced. Your comparison about how a clone can kill a Jedi with a blaster does not mean that Space Marines are far superior. Gretchin can kill space marines, I have seen it happen. Hell, I have seen space marines die due to dangerous terrain tests. I have seen wimpy little guardians take out space marines, and none of those things are any more worse than a clone in Star Wars.
I already brought up the fact if we are comparing the entire saga of both sides 40K would easily win because of technology and all the gods of the warp, which are pretty much unkillable. Though if you compare it with say the death star or the sun crusher, in fact the sun crusher could wipe out all of the 40K universe. It is indestructible, and it causes suns to white dwarf wiping out whole systems.
In the books Luke cuts through a space ship with his light saber.
Here goes an old republic trailer showing how Jedi can absorb energy
here is another one displaying what masters can do
Have you ever heard of a term known as "gameplay mechanics"? I have seen Bloodthirsters fall to guardsmen in melee combat on the tabletop. Have you ever once heard of that occurring in fluff? No, you have not. Same with Gretchin killing Space Marines, at least in melee combat, it doesn't happen. And ironically, the average guardsman poses a greater threat than a clone trooper, Lasguns can shoot through two meters of concrete. I cannot recall the average standard-issue blaster doing the same.
The Sun Crusher? Seriously? Come on dude, a Blackstone Fortress can do the same thing. Oh, and have you forgotten about the existence of a little race of beings called the C'tan? Who could, under their own power, easily destroy solar systems? Not cause a star to supernova which destroys the system, but actually make the star system disappear. In a black hole for example. Aka the same thing that destroyed the Sun Crusher. The C'tan when warring amongst themselves created black holes that ate star systems. Oh, and then there are fun little Necron trinkets like the World Engine, and Iori Delta Tove. Both ships the size of a planet, the World Engine was impervious to all Imperial weaponry with its advanced shields, and its standard weaponry was meant to basically end all life on a planet, reducing it to a barren husk. Iori Delta Tove was really neat, you see, even sleeping, with its presence alone, it altered the memories of individuals in surrounding space, ancient texts were rewritten, and the orbits of entire planets were shifted. How did it accomplish this? Oh, just by basically altering the timestream, rewriting history. This is but one faction, and but two of the advanced technologies at their disposal. Even the Dark Eldar can capture stars and leech off of them for power. Don't make this 40k vs. Star Wars, because there are beings so powerful within 40k they could literally solo the setting.
And in The Phantom Menace Qui-Gon takes time to cut through a blast door. Ceramite is amazingly heat retardant, it has even survived Exterminatus. So I am just saying, I doubt lightsabers can reliably cut through power armour.
Um, she was blocking the saber, not absorbing it. And beyond that, bolters are not energy, it's a slug that burrows into you, and then explodes. Nothing to really absorb.
And the Jedi and Sith fighting in the first and second videos are exceptional, most Jedi, as I have constantly brought up, are not that strong. And a Mandalorian is a poor-man's Space Marine in every way, it's sad really. Not quite as sad as Boba Fett making Vader look like a chump, but sad nontheless.
Crom wrote: Then you got force unleashed where starkiller literally rips down a star destroyer from low orbit to the ground.
Exactly why none of that crap is canon.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
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When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
Crom wrote: Then you got force unleashed where starkiller literally rips down a star destroyer from low orbit to the ground.
Exactly why none of that crap is canon.
Except that it is.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
Although, some of the EU did kind of turn the Force into crap-magic, and actually, The Force Unleashed actually is noncanon I believe. The second one definitely is.
Void__Dragon wrote:There are levels of Star Wars canon.
Although, some of the EU did kind of turn the Force into crap-magic, and actually, The Force Unleashed actually is noncanon I believe. The second one definitely is.
Some of the endings are non-canon, but all the games are regarded as canon.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
Let us not forget the Imperium of man's ordinary cruisers which are the equalvent of the dreadnoughts of the starwars universe
Not only that but did you see the jedi in the first one? THEY GOT OWNED by a dozen sith and a bounty hunter.
Hell the jedi were hunted down by Boba Fett. Yes one man killed hundreds of jedi... With blasters....... And rockets.... Can't stop a rocket that explodes and the shrapnel goes into you can't stop the bleeding immediately, only a space marine could stop that. Hell a space marine had his entire arm shot off, and just laughed threw his knife at the guy and there ya go he had his revenge. Cortez once an ordinary space marine now basically a cyborg on crack. No matter what you do this guy could not die, just showing you may beat him the first time, but the second time he would of learned how to defeat the jedi, and then he scarms a bullet into the jedi's skull.
Anyway, I think the jedi will lose because a typical jedi knight isn't an awesome fighter, not compared to a sith warrior.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
Luke_Prowler wrote:Would it really matter that TFU is canon or not? Starkiller is not by any circumstance a normal Jedi.
yeah once he was human and was trained by Darth Vader..... Another very powerful sith..... With force augments and cybernetic implants, well if you can't tell on his model he has legs with metal parts and he has metal parts on his arm, so this means he is not a normal run of the mill jedi.
the average jedi can die pretty easily they aren't jedi masters. Hell jedi masters are over confident and thats how they die. and plus you saw the jedi die in revenge of the sith, they dropped like flies.
By the way a space marine has centuries of war, not a decade of training like a jedi, instead the space marine has 50 years or more years of training and is still considered a youngling.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
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In TFU1, he didn't actually bring the Star Destroyer down himself. it was already falling from the magma slug he had fired at it. he just stopped it from squishing him and his buds.
and Imperial Cruisers are MUCH larger then Star Wars dreadnoughts if i am interperting the scales right.
a Star Destroyer is slightly larger then a Cobra escort(but not by much)
Star Destroyers are 1.6km long.
Retribution battleships are 7.5km long, so I estimate Cruisers to be about 5.5km long. how big are dreadnoughts?
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Well, the Executor class SSD was 19 kilometers long or so. However, such vessels are relatively few in number, definteley rarer than Imperial battleships.
The mainstay of the Galactice Empire's fleet is the Imperial Star Destroyer, and I'm fairly sure a Lunar cruiser would be able to outfight an ISD.
"If everything on Earth were rational, nothing would ever happen."
~Fyodor Dostoevsky
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
~Hanlon's Razor
Grey elder wrote:What about Revan before he turned evil.
Most characters like Revan, Sidious and Luke aren't good examples of bog standard Jedi. Once again, if the Jedi squad is Luke, Sidious and Revan, then the Space Marine squad is Marneus Calgar, Tigurius and Draigo.
"If everything on Earth were rational, nothing would ever happen."
~Fyodor Dostoevsky
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
~Hanlon's Razor
Grey elder wrote:What about Revan before he turned evil.
Most characters like Revan, Sidious and Luke aren't good examples of bog standard Jedi. Once again, if the Jedi squad is Luke, Sidious and Revan, then the Space Marine squad is Marneus Calgar, Tigurius and Draigo.
Don't you think that's a little overkill why not just send Draigo
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ChrisWWII wrote:Well, the Executor class SSD was 19 kilometers long or so. However, such vessels are relatively few in number, definteley rarer than Imperial battleships.
The mainstay of the Galactice Empire's fleet is the Imperial Star Destroyer, and I'm fairly sure a Lunar cruiser would be able to outfight an ISD.
yup,
as its name implies, a Star Destroyer is just that. a Destroyer. a small escort vessel meant to provide covering fire for a larger vessel, normally a Battleship or Carrier.
Star Wars basically only has Super Star Destroyers to fill the role of a larger ship and those never appear in groups. they were intended to be the Capital ship for every Empire fleet commander, but in reality only a few actually recieved one.
I think Lucas just picked a deadly sounding name when he made Star Destroyers up as the main line vessel for the Empire. but they fit in just right with size levels in 40k. Cobra class destroyers are about the same size.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote:
as its name implies, a Star Destroyer is just that. a Destroyer. a small escort vessel meant to provide covering fire for a larger vessel, normally a Battleship or Carrier.
No. That's so far off, it's almost laughable.
This thread isn't about ships. Keep it on the topic of Jedi versus Space Marines.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I was responding to another poster. and the information is correct so no calling foul.
the Empire doesn't use their Star Destroyers like a destroyer, but that only makes it worse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/16 21:33:26
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Can we all just agree that Jedi would lost and move on?
Don't matter how Jedi is tough - there are more Space Marines then them and they can't move planet's with their force powers, they can barely deflect 10 shots fired at them at the same time...
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
a powerful psyker has the ability to open warp rifts capable of swallowing planets.
Space Marine Librarians are often called upon to close these Warp Rifts to prevent the planets from getting swallowed up.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey elder wrote:Well even though its a jedi fight only Darth Nihilus is able to kill a planet with his force powers(But still suffers from bad guy syndrome)?
Well, Nihilus was starved, weakened from hunger when the Exile and friends boarded the Ravager. And then drained himself once more when he tried to "eat" the Exile, which he could not do because the Exile was a Wound in the Force, like him. And then he can be weakened again via Visas exploiting the Force Link she has with him.
Um has anyone taken into account the speed a laser would travel in comparison to a bullet? I'd have to imagine a great deal faster.. so if a jedi can see multiple lasers coming beforehand... wouldnt we get some matrix happening not to mention I'm sure force push would be much more effective on metal bullets compared to a blast of energy.. no? Food for thought
Automatically Appended Next Post: Question would depend on if lascannon, lasgun, plasma and melta could be held on par with an actual blaster laser etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/17 07:02:10
your enemy is most vulnerable at their moment of victory - Napoleon Bonapart
a) Star Wars blasters do not move like lasers. They are clearly travelling slower than light.
b) It doesn't matter that a bolter round may be moving slower if they're coming at them full auto in every direction. Some will get through, and the damage from that will scew up the Jedi's concentration/whatever enough that more will get through to finally kill the Jedi.
"If everything on Earth were rational, nothing would ever happen."
~Fyodor Dostoevsky
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
~Hanlon's Razor
iproxtaco wrote:
I've also never heard of a marine doing anything close to moving a planet.
I was referring to Jedi's Marines can only make a planet disappear...
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Void__Dragon wrote:
Here goes an old republic trailer showing how Jedi can absorb energy
here is another one displaying what masters can do
Those videos undermine the argument for the Jedi. The offensive impact of psychic powers in 40K far outstrip even the most ridiculous displays in Star Wars (INCLUDING Force Unleashed 2).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
iproxtaco wrote:The details of the confrontation haven't been defined. The Jedi would lose against what? A single marine? A Squad? The Chapter?
I've also never heard of a marine doing anything close to moving a planet.
They've been defined several times. One average Jedi vs. average Space Marine = Jedi wins. One average Jedi vs. average squad of Marines = Marines win with a couple of casualties. Jedi vs. Librarian = coin-toss.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/17 07:39:32
iproxtaco wrote: I've also never heard of a marine doing anything close to moving a planet.
I was referring to Jedi's Marines can only make a planet disappear...
They can't. Malcador the Sigilitte, the most powerful human psyker after the Emperor could enact a costly spell to temporarily place Titan in the Warp. The Grey Knights do not know how the Warp Nexus works, and they can't fully operate it.
Omegus wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post:
iproxtaco wrote:The details of the confrontation haven't been defined. The Jedi would lose against what? A single marine? A Squad? The Chapter? I've also never heard of a marine doing anything close to moving a planet.
They've been defined several times. One average Jedi vs. average Space Marine = Jedi wins. One average Jedi vs. average squad of Marines = Marines win with a couple of casualties. Jedi vs. Librarian = coin-toss.
I simply stating that Coa didn't define the confrontation he assumed Marine would win.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/17 11:45:00
iproxtaco wrote:
They can't. Malcador the Sigilitte, the most powerful human psyker after the Emperor could enact a costly spell to temporarily place Titan in the Warp. The Grey Knights do not know how the Warp Nexus works, and they can't fully operate it.
I was thinking of blowing up planet not passing it into the warp
Automatically Appended Next Post:
iproxtaco wrote:
I simply stating that Coa didn't define the confrontation he assumed Marine would win.
Simple count = there are more Marines than Jedi.
Like Clonetroopers vs. Jedi - who win in the end? The one with superior numbers...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/17 15:53:32
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
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"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" 
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