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If one limits the meaning of the term "corruption" to space magicks... By itself, however, corruption extends beyond this. Imperial citizens get corrupted by Tau propaganda, Imperial nobles get corrupted by their greed, the genes of Hive workers get corrupted by industrial pollution, ...

Especially in 40k, this term is applied just as liberal as "heresy".

I also still don't quite agree on this supposed difference between "warp corruption" and a "coerced fall". When warp corruption ends up twisting your mind that's just as coerced.

Oh, and in the case of Miriael Sabathiel ...

Second only to the mighty Astartes, the sisters of battle were the most perfect fighting mechanisms of the Imperium of Man. Unlike the Astartes, none of them had ever fallen to corruption. What a trophy for Chaos. What a twisted champion.

or

He paused and looked at the Canoness and her guards. "A Battle Sister of the Order of the Martyred lady", he emphasised. "A Battle Sister... corrupted."
The three veiled women remained silent.
"I knew this was impossible", Curtz went on. "Absolutely impossible. Your kind - forgive me, great lady - your kind are incorruptible. I made a careful study of the archives to reinforce my opinion. History shows us many horrors, but never a Battle Sister fallen. That was when I realised it was a sham. Lunacy in fact. I suspected that it was matter of blasphemy. You are no doubt aware that the Pyrus Reach is greatly conflicted of late. Terrible times, and the poison of it, I’m glad to say, is slow to reach us. Sometimes being a backwater has its benefits. I supposed that some miscreant desired to stain the Order’s name by committing these crimes, to engender unrest and panic. I sent the reports to alert you to the defamation."

The above is from Abnett's story that introduced the character, accompanying her first appearance in studio material.

The "incorruptible" stuff was also mentioned in the Codex and several WD articles, by the way, which would make it a pretty damn retcon when this suddenly happens every second Tuesday.

That said, one still has the option to interpret the GK stuff simply as corruption in a way that drove the Sisters mad and caused them to open fire on each other, which isn't nearly as bad as if they'd have truly turned to Chaos whilst preserving their intelligence and all (aka copying Miriael).

Ref the Night Lords finding the footage of Curze's assasination being a victory.

They dont have youtube in the 41st Millennium?

*yawn*

They can be corrupted and not fall. One is not the other. They are not interchangeable.

Just like Kasrkin is not interchangeable for Stormtrooper.

Lynata wrote:If one limits the meaning of the term "corruption" to space magicks... By itself, however, corruption extends beyond this. Imperial citizens get corrupted by Tau propaganda, Imperial nobles get corrupted by their greed, the genes of Hive workers get corrupted by industrial pollution, ...

Especially in 40k, this term is applied just as liberal as "heresy".

I also still don't quite agree on this supposed difference between "warp corruption" and a "coerced fall". When warp corruption ends up twisting your mind that's just as coerced.

Oh, and in the case of Miriael Sabathiel ...

Second only to the mighty Astartes, the sisters of battle were the most perfect fighting mechanisms of the Imperium of Man. Unlike the Astartes, none of them had ever fallen to corruption. What a trophy for Chaos. What a twisted champion.

or

He paused and looked at the Canoness and her guards. "A Battle Sister of the Order of the Martyred lady", he emphasised. "A Battle Sister... corrupted."
The three veiled women remained silent.
"I knew this was impossible", Curtz went on. "Absolutely impossible. Your kind - forgive me, great lady - your kind are incorruptible. I made a careful study of the archives to reinforce my opinion. History shows us many horrors, but never a Battle Sister fallen. That was when I realised it was a sham. Lunacy in fact. I suspected that it was matter of blasphemy. You are no doubt aware that the Pyrus Reach is greatly conflicted of late. Terrible times, and the poison of it, I’m glad to say, is slow to reach us. Sometimes being a backwater has its benefits. I supposed that some miscreant desired to stain the Order’s name by committing these crimes, to engender unrest and panic. I sent the reports to alert you to the defamation."

The above is from Abnett's story that introduced the character, accompanying her first appearance in studio material.

The "incorruptible" stuff was also mentioned in the Codex and several WD articles, by the way, which would make it a pretty damn retcon when this suddenly happens every second Tuesday.

That said, one still has the option to interpret the GK stuff simply as corruption in a way that drove the Sisters mad and caused them to open fire on each other, which isn't nearly as bad as if they'd have truly turned to Chaos whilst preserving their intelligence and all (aka copying Miriael).

Long before there was a Ward I bought a tome called Inquis Extermintus. It's a lovely art book of 40k art. Within are some really awesome panels from some comic I don't know. It features SoBs being mutated into beast-women because of a warp rift. I don't know the story but I'm pretty sure they didn't worship chaos. They just got shot in the face with some warp lightning.

Kanluwen wrote:*yawn*
They can be corrupted and not fall. One is not the other. They are not interchangeable.

-->

Lynata wrote:You can be corrupted without falling, but you cannot fall without being corrupted.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Long before there was a Ward I bought a tome called Inquis Extermintus. It's a lovely art book of 40k art. Within are some really awesome panels from some comic I don't know. It features SoBs being mutated into beast-women because of a warp rift. I don't know the story but I'm pretty sure they didn't worship chaos. They just got shot in the face with some warp lightning.

Well, Black Library =/= GW canon. Just look at how Xenology wants you to believe that Tau have feet instead of hooves.

I'm assuming the comic would be Daemonifuge, a BL graphic novel of outstanding graphical quality, whose plot included an entire Order of SoB turned to Chaos? [Image]

Xenology wants you to believe that Ethereals have feet instead of hooves.

It's almost like there might actually be different evolutionary pathways or evidence of genetic tampering in the Tau bloodlines!

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:*yawn*
They can be corrupted and not fall. One is not the other. They are not interchangeable.

-->

Lynata wrote:You can be corrupted without falling, but you cannot fall without being corrupted.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Long before there was a Ward I bought a tome called Inquis Extermintus. It's a lovely art book of 40k art. Within are some really awesome panels from some comic I don't know. It features SoBs being mutated into beast-women because of a warp rift. I don't know the story but I'm pretty sure they didn't worship chaos. They just got shot in the face with some warp lightning.

Well, Black Library =/= GW canon. Just look at how Xenology wants you to believe that Tau have feet instead of hooves.

I'm assuming the comic would be Daemonifuge, a BL graphic novel of outstanding graphical quality, whose plot included an entire Order of SoB turned to Chaos? [Image]

Probably. So an entire order goes over to chaos? Uh oh. So much for that "only one Sister has fallen" thing.

Daemonifuge? "Outstanding"?

We must not have read the same piece. That was such an abomination that it only could have been pre-Goto.

Kanluwen wrote:Xenology wants you to believe that Ethereals have feet instead of hooves.
It's almost like there might actually be different evolutionary pathways or evidence of genetic tampering in the Tau bloodlines!

Or like that BL author didn't take a look at the actual Ethereal miniature produced by GW!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:So an entire order goes over to chaos? Uh oh. So much for that "only one Sister has fallen" thing.

Actually, there's far more examples of these things happening in Black Library stuff - but those (including Daemonifuge) have already been named on the first pages of this thread, I think. In the end, each such author represents an "alternative version" of the setting, as George Mann described it.

Kanluwen wrote:Daemonifuge? "Outstanding"?
We must not have read the same piece. That was such an abomination that it only could have been pre-Goto.

Hum? I have no criticism whatsoever regarding the artworks. But of course art always lies in the eye of the beholder.

If you're referring to the story ... I dunno, had its ups and downs. Overall, it was at least an enjoyable read and involved some cool twists. Not to mention that many factions had "guest appearances" throughout Ephrael's odyssey, which is kind of cool.

Certainly a refreshing break from most BL novels, if only because it did not feature Marines for a change. Yeah, I'm biased in that aspect.

the Horus heresy books. I'd say a majority of those books have the bad guys winning

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Xenology wants you to believe that Ethereals have feet instead of hooves.
It's almost like there might actually be different evolutionary pathways or evidence of genetic tampering in the Tau bloodlines!

Or like that BL author didn't take a look at the actual Ethereal miniature produced by GW!

It's funny, because the Beefcake Twins have almost exactly the same structure for their feet as the illustration.

Crazy!

Kanluwen wrote:It's funny, because the Beefcake Twins have almost exactly the same structure for their feet as the illustration.

It's funny because it isn't true!



(protip: perhaps look for minis without shoes)

I point and laugh at your remote linking forbidden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: if they have hooves, why bother with shoes?

There, should be fixed now - it's now a picture from GW's own website.

Kanluwen wrote:Also: if they have hooves, why bother with shoes?

"Armour" or simply decoration, I guess?

Aun'shi is the model you picked? Really?

I'm amused. Mainly because he was removed from the codex for a reason--that reason being that they didn't like his fluff, which made him out to be some kind of commie samurai.

i dont think that aun'shi counts, not being part of the codex anymore and all.

Revelation 20:7 "and the devil, who decieved them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and phalse prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever".
God is good, everything good is of god. God is the alpha and omega. Good and evil only clash once...and good wins.

So, your argument is, bible says good wins, therefore in 40k universe where the christian god clearly doesnt exist (especially since the Emperor wa Jesus) and the bible is unheard of, good always wins?

Whuh?

The souls of the dead only have the fate of being eaten by the chaos gods

thats right the souls of many people no matter how awesome whether its Commissar Yarrick, Calgar, Pedro, Volkin; when they die they will all get eaten by the chaos gods and thus empowering them

Chaos Wins and wins their souls

Case closed

since when? a soul is a presence in the warp, the reflection of your emotions, psychic attunement, mental state, etc. when you die, it dies.

Kanluwen wrote:Aun'shi is the model you picked? Really?

You can pick any Tau you want. Even the one on the image you posted, as that guy in the middle clearly seems to be lacking toes as well.

Kanluwen wrote:that reason being that they didn't like his fluff

Source?

Apart from that, he can still be purchased on the GW website right now, so GW obviously is content with his looks.

Not that I actually need to point at Tau feet to prove a point. One word is enough to discredit BL as a source of fluff, that word being "Goto".

well, i look at BL like wikipedia- it is 95% accurate but the problem is that you dont know WHICH 95%....

I'm honestly stunned that Presidentofasia is so shocked by this revelation. Dude, have you ever even read any of the fluff at all in any Chaos codex to ever exist?

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Aun'shi is the model you picked? Really?

You can pick any Tau you want. Even the one on the image you posted, as that guy in the middle clearly seems to be lacking toes as well.

Kanluwen wrote:that reason being that they didn't like his fluff

Source?

Apart from that, he can still be purchased on the GW website right now, so GW obviously is content with his looks.

Not that I actually need to point at Tau feet to prove a point. One word is enough to discredit BL as a source of fluff, that word being "Goto".

And one word is enough to discredit GW itself as a source of fluff, that word being "Kelly".

Seriously. Orks castrating Daemons, what is this crap?

Smitty0305 wrote:Revelation 20:7 "and the devil, who decieved them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever".
God is good, everything good is of god. God is the alpharius and omegon. Good and evil only clash once...and good wins?

fixed that for you. lolololol

Yeah... Smitty, you know that real life theology has no bearing in 40K. I'm not trying to turn this into a theological debate, but we're talking about the 40K universe. It is a fictional universe in which God does not exist (I am not saying whether or not he exists in the real universe, this is not a serious real-life debate thread). In the 40K universe, well, it looks like evil will eventually win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Missed Smitty's post or I would've mentioned it in my previous one.

Kanluwen wrote:And one word is enough to discredit GW itself as a source of fluff, that word being "Kelly".
Seriously. Orks castrating Daemons, what is this crap?

Whilst GW may have produced some weird stuff over the years (see latest GK Codex), the difference is that it's still GW. They set the mark, so their "crap" is the stuff to which the licensed material should adhere to. Funny enough this isn't always the case, see the RPG's Daemon Hunter book or various BL novels deviating from stuff. Heck, even one of the authors of the HH books admitted to taking such liberties on his blog. So, either you have GW canon, or no canon at all. Choose your poison. The truth cannot be everything, for there's way too much conflicting stuff that has been published over the years. And according to Gav Thorpe, GW has realized this.

(I know you've probably read those blogs before, just linking them here in case anyone else is interested in these statements)

And what's wrong with Orks castrating daemons? Whilst it may sound a bit silly per se, this is 40k, where daemons can be captured, sometimes do have genitalia, and Orks like to mutilate. Also, Kelly wrote some cool stuff (though admittedly I've only read two of his Codices and some WD articles by him as of yet) - why the hate? :(

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And one word is enough to discredit GW itself as a source of fluff, that word being "Kelly".
Seriously. Orks castrating Daemons, what is this crap?

Whilst GW may have produced some weird stuff over the years (see latest GK Codex), the difference is that it's still GW. They set the mark, so their "crap" is the stuff to which the licensed material should adhere to. Funny enough this isn't always the case, see the RPG's Daemon Hunter book or various BL novels deviating from stuff. Heck, even one of the authors of the HH books admitted to taking such liberties on his blog. So, either you have GW canon, or no canon at all. Choose your poison. The truth cannot be everything, for there's way too much conflicting stuff that has been published over the years. And according to Gav Thorpe, GW has realized this.

(I know you've probably read those blogs before, just linking them here in case anyone else is interested in these statements)

You really need to actually start reading the things you link. Because it's pretty clear they're not supporting your continual refutation of Black Library and Fantasy Flight Games.

And what's wrong with Orks castrating daemons? Whilst it may sound a bit silly per se, this is 40k, where daemons can be captured, sometimes do have genitalia, and Orks like to mutilate. Also, Kelly wrote some cool stuff (though admittedly I've only read two of his Codices and some WD articles by him as of yet) - why the hate? :(

Since this seems to go over your head, as usual, it's not hate. It's saying that every writer can be an idiot sometimes. When Kelly wrote Tuska's story, of an Ork Warlord trapped on a Daemon World within the Eye of Terror and ended it with a Daemon getting castrated--it's considered "acceptable" by the masses because it's an Ork doing it and it's within the 'spirit' of the army.

When Ward wrote something similar in the story of Draigo, a Grey Knight trapped forever within the Warp in a case of the gaoler being locked in with the prisoners, it's decried as "over the top" and "breaking canon". The same thing goes with the little paragraph and a half story of the "Bloodtide", which is decried the same.

Both instances feature over the top fluff, just one gets whined about because people dislike the author.

Hazard30 wrote:

The bad guys never win.

What youve got to understand is that they are all bad guys in there own right.

Kanluwen wrote:You really need to actually start reading the things you link. Because it's pretty clear they're not supporting your continual refutation of Black Library and Fantasy Flight Games.

And mind telling me how that is so instead of just going "NO U"? Apparently, you're such a better reader than I am. Feel free to enlighten me with your wisdom.

Kanluwen wrote:Since this seems to go over your head, as usual, [...]

You really should stop coming off as oh-so-superior and all-knowing, and most of all insulting. Such potshots are both as unnecessary as they are unconstructive.

Kanluwen wrote:Both instances feature over the top fluff, just one gets whined about because people dislike the author.

Well, I guess your personal opinion just deviates from "the masses". But of course it's the masses that must be wrong, yes?