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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:5 skeleton warriors.

Basecoat bone with paint X

Wash bone with paint Y

Drybrush bone with paint Z.

Total time less than 1hr. Skill level 2/10

divide 1hr by a month.

I don't think there is anybody on this thread who could truthfully say that they could not do something like the above if they had 4 weeks to do it.

This kind of argument is always just so stupid. I could also knit a sweater too. So what? What does literally having the time have to do with anything? People have other things to do that are either more important ot them or more fun. So again what is your point?

inquisitorlewis wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:The most upsetting thing is people who don't paint their Infinity models. Every model in the line is gorgeous and deserves a paint job to match. Besides, you only need to field around eight models... that's a week's worth of painting, a month if you only paint a few hours a week.

And I'll give you the same response.
I'll kick you in the junk once for each mini I paint, deal? We'll both get about the same level of enjoyment.
It doesn't matter how gorgeous the models are - in fact I'll likely never try the game now because of what you said.
My painting will never be that good - just like my skill at playing the cello won't ever be that good.
If my paint job ruins a "gorgeous model" that deserves a gorgeous paint job, I'll just refuse to sully them.

I'm starting to wonder if youre to busy obsessing over other peoples "junk" to find the time to pick up a brush. The whole thing is pretty lame.

That's funny. I've been wondering why some of you are so obsessed over whether or not other people pick up a paint brush. So much so that you can't find the time to seek out people who play to your standards. The whole thing is pretty lame.

Delephont wrote:I wonder what would happen if people said:

"Well, I put complete sprues on the table straight out of the box, because I hate modelling!!"

I wonder what people would say to that? The bottom line is that everything to do with TTgaming is "optional", but to ignore one aspect of the hobby because you don't want to do it is unreasonable. To expect people to take you seriously (within a gaming context is also unreasonable).

Whether people like it or not, the hobby is model, paint, play....whether you outsource the bits you don't like, or struggle through is immaterial, you don't have a complete product until all of those criteria are met.

I'm not going to bore you with analogy, there are so many, but every hobby has multiple facets (layers) which comprise that hobby, take anyone away and you actually have a completely different hobby, or in some cases a hobby that isn't even recognised.

I have seen the variation of this theme.

It's called- glue legs on the bases, and write out a list of what you wish you really had on the table. This tick only goes a week or two before the offender is dubbed- half nelson, or stubbs.

I don't think the "I won't cut my models out of the sprues but I can play!" will fly. You can't play the game when you don't cut the models from their sprues. Or it will be a really, really weird game where you don't know if there's 5 tactical marines in one sprue (since it has five sets of legs) and why are 5 marines just as big as a Rhino.

Hahaha!
My next army is going to be bases with a pile of bits glued to the top of each of them. It will be totally WYSIWYG! And when people look at me funny, I'll just blurt out, "I hate modeling!"
I wonder who would play me then.
XD

That said, I obviously support people not painting their models. And now, I also support people not building their models.

heartserenade wrote:IYou can't play the game when you don't cut the models from their sprues.

Not 40K, but you can with Warmachine, which uses base volume determined by base size for LoS.

Not saying I'd play constantly against someone who did that(though I probably would), but it's useful for proxying units you plan to buy and doing demos on the fly(since the quick start rules download provides the cards to play what's in the battle group boxes).

Delephont wrote:I wonder what would happen if people said:

"Well, I put complete sprues on the table straight out of the box, because I hate modelling!!"

I wonder what people would say to that? The bottom line is that everything to do with TTgaming is "optional", but to ignore one aspect of the hobby because you don't want to do it is unreasonable. To expect people to take you seriously (within a gaming context is also unreasonable).

Whether people like it or not, the hobby is model, paint, play....whether you outsource the bits you don't like, or struggle through is immaterial, you don't have a complete product until all of those criteria are met.

I'm not going to bore you with analogy, there are so many, but every hobby has multiple facets (layers) which comprise that hobby, take anyone away and you actually have a completely different hobby, or in some cases a hobby that isn't even recognised.

This argument again...

Okay genius, here we go. While there are no rules requiring painting, there are rules covering modeling for advantage (a flattened model on a sprue would be able to take advantage of Block LoS cover) and there are rules stating that a model must be glued to the base that is provided with it.

You and many others keep repeating that by not painting, people are one aspect of 'the hobby'. This foolish statement assumes that painting is part of this thing you refer to as 'the hobby'. Not everybody's hobby is the same as yours. The world does not revolve around you and some people may actually look at things differently than you do. Get over yourself and off of your high horse and worry about how you enjoy your hobby, instead of worrying about how others enjoy their hobby.

I still cant believe how much you lot are arguing about it..

Some people like painting, some don't, is there really any point in an argument? If you want to refuse to play people with unpainted models, again, that's your business.

I paint all my army, my best mate doesn't, so what?

I'm still struggling to see an actual debate here.

What i meant is that it's a ridiculous statement that's not on the level of not painting your minis. You can still play the game if you don't paint your minis, you can't play it if you didn't cut off the sprues. I'm just suggesting at least write an example that makes more sense.

mattyrm wrote:I still cant believe how much you lot are arguing about it..

Some people like painting, some don't, is there really any point in an argument? If you want to refuse to play people with unpainted models, again, that's your business.

I paint all my army, my best mate doesn't, so what?

I'm still struggling to see an actual debate here.

Matty, it's the internet. That alone should tell you everything you need to know about why it's going on.

Painting isn't fun for me.

I still do it.

Why?

Because I'm a grown-up, and grown-ups know that sometimes we HAVE TO DO STUFF WE DON'T LIKE in order to get to do stuff we do. That's how life works. It's about trade-offs and compromises. You don't get what you want without giving something up first.

So people who don't paint are acting childish? In order to be a grown-up one must first have painted armies? You do realize how stupid this sounds. Hurry up and delete your post before more people see this rubbish...

Pacific wrote:
In all honest, there seems to be a lot of quite belligerent sounding posts being made, but I don't think anyone has said either:
a ) they refuse to play an unpainted army

DakkaDakka is known for espousing this exact sentiment. For example.

Platuan4th wrote:
When did I say there was anything wrong with it?

I just probably wouldn't play at your club. Sometimes, I feel like using my armies that aren't fully painted(I have faction ADD due to finding playing the same army week after week boring). I also don't like using other people's models. Since you're a paint only club, my unpainted armies(generally unpainted because I got tired of painting them and moved on to a different army) aren't welcome and thus, I wouldn't be playing.

So then who misses out? The gaming club obviously has no issues holding its members to that standard. I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over missing out on a chance to have a member that would argue that the sky wasn't blue, or any of the other silly multiple arguments that you seem to thrive on.

Plain and simple, play an unpainted army and miss out on chances to game. Tournaments with a 3 standard rule, clubs that have painting restrictions, and the general population of gamers that want to play painted armies. You will end up missing out on all of those chances.

inquisitorlewis wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
When did I say there was anything wrong with it?

I just probably wouldn't play at your club. Sometimes, I feel like using my armies that aren't fully painted(I have faction ADD due to finding playing the same army week after week boring). I also don't like using other people's models. Since you're a paint only club, my unpainted armies(generally unpainted because I got tired of painting them and moved on to a different army) aren't welcome and thus, I wouldn't be playing.

So then who misses out? The gaming club obviously has no issues holding its members to that standard. I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over missing out on a chance to have a member that would argue that the sky wasn't blue, or any of the other silly multiple arguments that you seem to thrive on.

Plain and simple, play an unpainted army and miss out on chances to game. Tournaments with a 3 standard rule, clubs that have painting restrictions, and the general population of gamers that want to play painted armies. You will end up missing out on all of those chances.

Of course the exact opposite can be said: insist on only playing against fully painted armies and you'll miss out on playing against people that don't have said fully painted armies, tournaments that don't have a fully painted mandatory rule, leagues that as a general rule also don't enforce fully painted rules, campaigns, etc.

And fortunately, paint snobs aren't the general population around here and everyone will happily play against everyone else despite the amount of paint present or absent in their opponents army. Even the Napoleonics and DBM folks will generally play you if you have one or two unpainted units in your army!

helium42 wrote:So people who don't paint are acting childish? In order to be a grown-up one must first have painted armies? You do realize how stupid this sounds. Hurry up and delete your post before more people see this rubbish...

Like I said, some people use it to make themselves feel superior.

inquisitorlewis wrote: I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over missing out on a chance to have a member that would argue that the sky wasn't blue, or any of the other silly multiple arguments that you seem to thrive on.

If it's such a silly argument, then why are you even participating?

Also, you missed my point entirely. That being, why should a member be forced to miss out on one night because he just happens to be playing with an army that isn't painted yet.

PhantomViper wrote:

inquisitorlewis wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
When did I say there was anything wrong with it?

I just probably wouldn't play at your club. Sometimes, I feel like using my armies that aren't fully painted(I have faction ADD due to finding playing the same army week after week boring). I also don't like using other people's models. Since you're a paint only club, my unpainted armies(generally unpainted because I got tired of painting them and moved on to a different army) aren't welcome and thus, I wouldn't be playing.

So then who misses out? The gaming club obviously has no issues holding its members to that standard. I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over missing out on a chance to have a member that would argue that the sky wasn't blue, or any of the other silly multiple arguments that you seem to thrive on.

Plain and simple, play an unpainted army and miss out on chances to game. Tournaments with a 3 standard rule, clubs that have painting restrictions, and the general population of gamers that want to play painted armies. You will end up missing out on all of those chances.

Of course the exact opposite can be said: insist on only playing against fully painted armies and you'll miss out on playing against people that don't have said fully painted armies, tournaments that don't have a fully painted mandatory rule, leagues that as a general rule also don't enforce fully painted rules, campaigns, etc.

And fortunately, paint snobs aren't the general population around here and everyone will happily play against everyone else despite the amount of paint present or absent in their opponents army. Even the Napoleonics and DBM folks will generally play you if you have one or two unpainted units in your army!

The difference is, I can take my fully painted army and play in any of those events. You can't.

Some people just dont have the time, i personally love panting and try to encourage others to paint also

I have fully painted armies(5K or so) and I have unpainted armies(4-6k or so). In the end, I dont care about painting- what I do care about is playing number 1, coverting number 2.

If you have a hissy cow because people dont paint, I wouldnt want to play you anyway- with my painted or unpainted armies. A douche bag with a fully painted army isnt a better opponent then a guy with a consistantly unpainted army. I'd play the later, not former.

matphat wrote:Hahaha!
My next army is going to be bases with a pile of bits glued to the top of each of them. .

I thought you already played Orks?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mattyrm wrote:I still cant believe how much you lot are arguing about it..

Some people like painting, some don't, is there really any point in an argument? If you want to refuse to play people with unpainted models, again, that's your business.

I paint all my army, my best mate doesn't, so what?

I'm still struggling to see an actual debate here.

Wins thread.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

helium42 wrote:The world does not revolve around you and some people may actually look at things differently than you do. Get over yourself and off of your high horse and worry about how you enjoy your hobby, instead of worrying about how others enjoy their hobby.

Also wins thread.

I think the thing to remember is that there is "The Hobby" and then there is always "Your Hobby". If you don't want to play with people outside of "Your Hobby" then that is your prerogative.

Me personally, i enjoy all the fluff to it's fullest, so if my opponent doesn't know all the background about their army I simply won't play them because its not as enjoyable.

Platuan4th wrote:

inquisitorlewis wrote: I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over missing out on a chance to have a member that would argue that the sky wasn't blue, or any of the other silly multiple arguments that you seem to thrive on.

If it's such a silly argument, then why are you even participating?

Also, you missed my point entirely. That being, why should a member be forced to miss out on one night because he just happens to be playing with an army that isn't painted yet.

Um, because that's the standards that the club wishes to uphold.

It's a club. They have no obligation to cater to anyone.

inquisitorlewis wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

inquisitorlewis wrote: I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over missing out on a chance to have a member that would argue that the sky wasn't blue, or any of the other silly multiple arguments that you seem to thrive on.

If it's such a silly argument, then why are you even participating?

Also, you missed my point entirely. That being, why should a member be forced to miss out on one night because he just happens to be playing with an army that isn't painted yet.

Um, because that's the standards that the club wishes to uphold.

It's a club. They have no obligation to cater to anyone.

They have also done the guy they have excluded a favor: he can see what kind of peopel they are and find another group to play with elsewhere...

He will have more fun in the long run going elsewhere.

CT GAMER wrote:

inquisitorlewis wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

inquisitorlewis wrote: I'm sure they won't lose any sleep over missing out on a chance to have a member that would argue that the sky wasn't blue, or any of the other silly multiple arguments that you seem to thrive on.

If it's such a silly argument, then why are you even participating?

Also, you missed my point entirely. That being, why should a member be forced to miss out on one night because he just happens to be playing with an army that isn't painted yet.

Um, because that's the standards that the club wishes to uphold.

It's a club. They have no obligation to cater to anyone.

They have also done the guy they have excluded a favor: he can see what kind of peopel they are and find another group to play with elsewhere...

He will have more fun in the long run going elsewhere.

That may very well be true. In that case it sounds like a win win. This all boils down to preference. If someone doesn't want tom play an unpainted army that's their choice. It doesn't make them a bad person. It's just that they have certain expectations when playing a game. There's no right or wrong here.

I have actually considered using being a paint snob as a way to say no to players at my flgs. I hang out and paint there all the time so I get a lot of "wanna play a game?" and it's hard to say no to some while yes to others. My empire is coming slow and being painted as I build it. My vc on the other hand is 3/4 painted (model count wise). Most of the people I play are the same way. I may start saying "is your army painted" to avoid the FOTM armies and the complete newbs who I don't know. I paint socially. I play to have fun. If I don't know you, then I don't wanna play with you. I've met too many douches in this hobby to play just anyone. Hang out with me first and paint with me! That's what the paint bar is for. Our paint bar is just crazy with humor and fun.

Stoupe wrote:I have actually considered using being a paint snob as a way to say no to players at my flgs. I hang out and paint there all the time so I get a lot of "wanna play a game?" and it's hard to say no to some while yes to others. My empire is coming slow and being painted as I build it. My vc on the other hand is 3/4 painted (model count wise). Most of the people I play are the same way. I may start saying "is your army painted" to avoid the FOTM armies and the complete newbs who I don't know. I paint socially. I play to have fun. If I don't know you, then I don't wanna play with you. I've met too many douches in this hobby to play just anyone. Hang out with me first and paint with me! That's what the paint bar is for. Our paint bar is just crazy with humor and fun.

Can i have a romantic date please, this 'paint bar' sounds so cool. We could maybe have a little look and feel with one another models later in the night. Then when we are in the right mood we could bring in some games , but don't worry i wont introduce a third party into this relationship as it might be a step too far.

sorry had too , i see your point as you dont wanna play with people you dont like(but its not a case of here is my profile job....its more of just talking to others in a polite manner etc) but thats not really the argument (errr i meant discussion).

Oh and the whole you can prime/ wash and add 3 colours thing with ease..... now people with unpainted models dont want rubbish ones. Im sure if you play them often (friends/club mate) then paint them urself, im sure they would be happy for you to do it with a small charge(for the paint not a proper commission job). If you dont play them often, then its a 1 off....so dont play them if you dont want to... but it might be a case of play unpainted or dont play...thats your choice

Platuan4th wrote:There's no rule or law or contract or anything saying it's required. This statement is exceedingly outrageous.

There's also no rule saying that wearing clothes is required while playing, nor that one must be polite or nice while playing.

Why should I waste my time playing against people like that though?

Why don't you go play in the corner while the adults talk, ok?

Kaldor wrote:
Why don't you go play in the corner while the adults talk, ok?

That would require that there are adults talking.

Your statement is just as childish as the assertion that painting is the "adult thing to do".

You're both essentially saying "I don't like you, I'm taking my toys and going home." Let's leave that attitude and behavior on the playground it belongs, ok, kid?

The people that don't like painting/can't be bothered/too busy could at least spray the minis in one colour and wash them so they are not ugly grey/ metal. Maybe put a mark on the base to help distinguish which one is in which squad, is that really too much to ask?


(Image taken from albinoorks blog, check it out... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/353140.page)

Heck I actually think a green spray with a green wash, maybe with a little black would actually look quite good, like those classic plastic army men.

MetalOxide wrote:The people that don't like painting/can't be bothered/too busy could at least spray the minis in one colour and wash them so they are not ugly grey/ metal. Maybe put a mark on the base to help distinguish which one is in which squad, is that really too much to ask?


(Image taken from albinoorks blog, check it out... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/353140.page)

Heck I actually think a green spray with a green wash, maybe with a little black would actually look quite good, like those classic plastic army men.

Because ugly green trumps ugly grey?