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As always I don't feel strongly enough about things to get worked up about it. I'm creative and enjoy painting and drawing, so I paint my army in full, but its pretty small, so I can understand why some people don't considering how much stuff some of you lot seem to own!

I don't care if people don't paint though, some people don't enjoy it.

Like I always say, there is only one thing that really irritates me about this hobby as a whole and it is the nerds who take it all far too seriously. Whinge about the cost, whinge about the rules, whinge about fluff... I cant very well chastise people that endlessly complain about everything and not say the same to people that complain about unpainted armies!

Its great seeing an army painted brilliantly, but honestly, playing the game is the exact same paint or no paint, so its no biggie is it? I enjoy myself regardless of the paint jobs, and I would even play against an army of coke can drop pods.


Poor people should be allowed fun as well right?

No mattyrm. You never feel strongly enough about things to get worked up about them, but you certainly feel strongly enough to make big sweeping (off topic) swipes at people. Oh those dastardly 'nerds' who 'take it all far too seriously'. One day you'll work up enough effort to maybe think about yelling at them. A bit!

The fact that you see many unpainted armies itself means that unpainted armies are OK to most people. You don't see a lot of armies proxied by pieces of paper, right? So, pieces of paper are not OK, even though gaming experience is the same. Why is it this way?

It's their hobby as well as yours. If they don't want to paint their plastic mans, they don't have to to make you happy.

I have various friends who do fifferent things. My brother likes to paint stuff, and is quite good at it. He'll gnerally paint the majority of an army before using it. I have a friend who paints stuff fantastically, but uses armies in any state of painting they're in. He basically buys a whole army, plays with it and paints it while he's racking up games.

I have a friend who has bought so much stuff, he simply doesn't have the time or energy to paint them. I nearly got him interested enough in Army Painter to start painting, but they discontinued his colour choice (deep blue for Crimson Fists) before he got to start.

I know someone else who paints based on hsi whim. Sometimes a year passes without anything being done, sometimes a whole portion of an army gets done in a month.

Personally, I try to paint something every night. It doesn't always work out, but I try. I have a Tyranid army that is over 50% painted and an Infinity team that is about the same. And a Vampire Counts army that hasn't been touched aside from a few skeletons.

Everyone sees painting a different way. I've also known people who haven't wanted to bother. While I like seeing 2 painted armies go at it, it's not up to me to tell people that they need tp paint their stuff.

We have this problem with a guy in our gaming group, He owns upwards of 15,000 points of various armies and has never painted them beyond undercoating.

The thing his he really wants to paint his stuff but just loses focus very quickly, he comes up with awesome ideas for them as well but just doesn't go through with them.

We sometimes put on painted only escalation tournaments (which is a great way to get stuff painted if anyone is looking for ideas to push their gaming groups painting speed along) and he will look up schemes and undercoat or use my airbrush to put down base coats then just gives up after that.

Each to their own in the end. I'd never refuse to v's him and we have even entered some 2 player tourneys together that get points based on painting as well... even though he usually gets 0 for it. It's all fun and games

I know the group I am working on getting in and playing with only allows fully painted Apoc sized armies

all I play is Apocalypse.......I look forward to only painted armies allowed

-Loki- wrote:While I like seeing 2 painted armies go at it, it's not up to me to tell people that they need tp paint their stuff.

Aye, that sums it up.

I'm not going to tell people what to do, but I must say I find playing with unpainted models infinitely puzzling. There are quite a lot of games out there; why pick one that involves painting when you don't like it ?
Besides, I don't buy the "I'm not good at it". Nobody starts good at something. It's a matter of wanting to progress. I'm not an artist, and I wouldn't describe myself as dexterous, but I can get a somewhat decent job done.

I remember how it went when I began.
At first, I didn't think about diluting the paint, and I would drown a few models under a thick, fat coat that masked the details.
I wasn't happy about it, so I then tried to mix it with water to apply thinner layers. It was already much better.
Then I thought to myself that the models were rather plain. Based on some studio pictures, I tried my hand at highlighting the edges. It took some adjustment, but the result looked great, considering where I was coming from.
After that, I realised I didn't need to cover the whole model with paint, and started doing basic shadings simply by leaving some areas with just the bare black basecoat.
Then I tried my hand at inking, with more or less success. Still need to work on that one

End result : the models looked darn good on a game board, I had realised painting wasn't rocket surgery, and above all, I felt I had achieved something. I think this is the most important part : seeing the result of your work is very gratifying. To me, it's really part of the appeal; it caters to your inner craftsman.
I'm convinced one of the reasons Space Marines sell so well is that they're easy to paint.

For the OP, and this thread in general, I think its important to acknowledge that this is principally a problem with 40k. At least from my experience of games nights in various clubs/FLGS they have by far the highest proportion of non-painted minis, I would say when I was playing 40k a lot maybe only 1 in 4 was a completed and painted army. And if I were being honest, it was a fairly important factor in me losing enthusiasm for the system. Hell, even unassembled sometimes, and some extensive proxying (the 'Carnifex as a coke tin' is not just a legend, I have seen it used! ) At the opposite end of the scale is historical stuff, in Flames of War I am struggling to think of a game I have played against a non-painted force.

Even with other GW games the percentage of painted armies is usally higher - WFB for instance (although, I would say this is probably next in line for the 'most unfinished' army line).
Reasons for this? At a guess, the players of the game are usually younger (not always, but on average), the high model count of the game (it requires real time and commitment these days to finish an army, much more than when I started with 1st/2nd edition), and perhaps the propensity of fans to play 'flavour of the month' army. The guy at my club who has not painted his marines as they switched from standard, through to Space Wolves and then Blood Angels isn't going to paint his force if he wants to use what the internet is telling him is the most powerful army to play.

As for the whole 'no one can tell me how to have fun' argument? Well, I think if you agree with the 'social contract' element of wargaming at all - i.e. that you are not just playing for yourself, but that it is a social affair and fun for both of you, then I think people should at least put in a little effort. I spent the best part of 2 years making a Pre-Heresy army, and going into a lot of effort of painting and modelling it, even though it is not exactly high standard compared to some others. But, when I have seen the same pair of legs being used by an SM player, and the army is about 6 different chapters (just 2 marines painted in each, when they get bored from painting one colour) and the same player has been fielding that same pair of legs for 6 months or more - and almost always treating his stuff like crap (because obviously he has no regard for it), then of course it makes a big impact of the game for me*. Will I enjoy the game? Possible, but nothing like as much as if it was against a painted (and assembled!) army.


* I also find there is a direct correlation between an model (usually something heavy) accidentally falling off a hill or bouncing down some stairs and breaking one of my models, and that army also being unpainted.

I can paint to a good tabletop quality or maybe even a little better. I enjoy collecting and converting minis. In most real world encounters in FLGS I would rather my opponent have not attempted to paint their army as most off what I have seen since playing 2nd edition has been utter crap. A field of shiny metal and beautiful plastic would be better than %85 of the "painted" crap I have seen over the past 16-17 years. I have collected a lot of armies from players that were finally done abusing them and the rest of us. I have spent a good amount of time and effort in stripping the layers of bad & mediocre paint off of these acquisitions. Recently I have been preparing to store them in quality cases and bought a good quality airbrush to paint them with. But it may be another 5 years before they are done.

Back when I played 40k, I didn't really make an effort to paint my Marines. Heck, I'm still that way with WM/H, but at least with that I'm making an effort.

It's not that I'm a bad painter - my 'tabletop' quality is decent enough to get compliments from the local crowd, apparently - but moreso that I just don't like painting 28mm figures.

My FoW stuff, on the other hand, is another story. I've been blazing through my Brits, and actually finally played a game last night with a fully painted army. (Well, almost fully painted. I had 3 Universal Carriers that hadn't been flocked yet, but, hey, close enough!). I've actually gone and had my friend leave his Fallschirmjager company with me, because I'm going to paint everything for him. He's got 2 unpainted 40k armies and a primed-metallic-silver-with-some-blue/purple-paint Chaos Marine army, so if I want to play against a fully painted FoW force with him, I'll have to take that into my own hands.

As to what everyone else is saying, I feel there's a difference between 'I'm never going to paint these models, and I have no interest in doing so' and 'Yeah, these models aren't painted yet, but they will be!'. A person fielding a grey/tin army is fine if he's just started out, but if it's 2 years into his collection, then the least he could do is prime them. Painting your miniatures is a part of the overall wargaming and modelling hobby, and you should at the very least make an effort to try.

If it's terrible, who cares? Keep going. I can full attest to the 'getting better over time' method. Heck, I just went back and stripped 8 tanks because I wasn't happy with how I painted them in the first place. The more you paint, the better you will become at it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

KGatch113 wrote:Painting the model is part of the game.

Really? There are rules in the game for painted models? Where exactly?

Pride in colours for the space marines, it makes them remember their true spiritual liege and deflect energy based weaponry as well as adding to the efficiency of their targetting sensors.
It's in the section gak I made up meself, towards the back of the book a bit.

This whole subject was one of the draws of AT-43 and the Confrontation re-do for me, as well as my like for each games' (new) rules.

It meant that at the lowest common denominator, every army on the field was represented in full color. It didn't matter if you were a base-level gamer or something more, everyone's stuff looked cool, and then it only went up from there if you wanted to take the effort (like me!).

But then everyone bitched about the pre-paints, and how they wanted to paint their own models. Otherwise known as gamers want everything, and they even more seriously want there to be an issue to argue over, lol.

I can paint to a good tabletop quality or maybe even a little better. I enjoy collecting and converting minis. In most real world encounters in FLGS I would rather my opponent have not attempted to paint their army as most off what I have seen since playing 2nd edition has been utter crap. A field of shiny metal and beautiful plastic would be better than %85 of the "painted" crap I have seen over the past 16-17 years. I have collected a lot of armies from players that were finally done abusing them and the rest of us. I have spent a good amount of time and effort in stripping the layers of bad & mediocre paint off of these acquisitions. Recently I have been preparing to store them in quality cases and bought a good quality airbrush to paint them with. But it may be another 5 years before they are done.

Unfortunately it's that exact attitude that keeps lots of gamers from trying out the painting side of things, because they think they are going to be embarrassed by people who are "better". Any effort at all is better than no effort, sorry.

If someone is happy with their "sloppily" painted Orks because that's the best they can do, it beats out plastic and metal armies any day of the week. They can always get better. Several armies I look back at that I was proud of years past are poor compared to what I can do now, but they got me to this point.

To me painting is a complex art that I never really got a hang of. I actually picked up the new paints and paint tutorial book and have been just following that paint for paint for my new army.

Bunch of lazy peeps if you ask me

I should know, I'm one of them

Honestly, while playing against painted armies is preferable, I don't mind facing unpainted forces. I used to be one of those guys with not enough time or care to paint.

Now having painted a full DE army and Daemons army, I love fielding painted models. Fills me with a sense of pride seeing my painted raiders blowing up they grey bloodwolfmarineangel rhinos.

If your club has issues, implement a painting soft score/award during events. This will greatly increase the number of painted armies and people trying to paint.

helium42 wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Ok, So today i went to a warmachine league to see if i like that game and see if anyone is willing to help me learn a little(they did alot)
But i noticed, alot of people still dont have painted armies, and i dont mean models in the army that arent painted, i mean feilds of gray. This is the same at my 40k night.
Out of the 8-10 people ther only 3 can field a fully painted 1500 the rest have primer and show they give a little bit about painting. This may change though because we will be giving people points for the campaign for coming with a fully painted army.
But is it too much to ask people at least attempt to paint there armys? I know alot of people dont have the time but i see people buying more and never painting.
Am i asking to much?

Is it too much to ask for some spell/grammar check before posting?

There, now we both sound like trolls.

Some people who don't use computers often tend to type poorly/they are used to social media sites. Few of the girls i know are prime examples. Much worse then the post above. They have trouble turning off their "Chat Speak" when writing papers or emailing people. Since I started working a more serious job I actually went "super professional" in the way I email individuals!


On topic - If two people ask me for a game, one has an unpainted army, one has a painted army - I'll play the guy with the painted army. I'm one of those "Paint your Crap" guys in these type of threads. I refuse to play with units in my army that are unpainted. Eh to each his own at the end of the day. Unless you cant paint due to injury/working 50+hours a week/kids - Hire someone or paint. Hone your skills when you're a younger kid who has no obligations!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

KGatch113 wrote:Painting the model is part of the game.

Really? There are rules in the game for painted models? Where exactly?

GW tournies require that models be painted in no less than three colors...
I know it's not a "rule" of the game itself but it should be noted.

If people don't want to paint their models it's fine by me, but I will insult you and call you lazy for doing so.
I never criticize the paintjob itself if an attempt is showm, I will try and give pointers. But to not paint an army simply because you say that you are not a good painter is a lack of effort. I have hands that shake nonstop and I managed to paint an army of IG that IMO look damn good.

inquisitorlewis wrote:

swordbrotherjim wrote:Paint them. Its part of the hobby.

I agree.

Sure it is part of the hobby but some people just play the game and don't partake in the hobby. To each his own I suppose.

I prefer playing with painted armies and against them but I don't hold it against anyone if they don't feel the same way. As long as the other person is a good guy (or girl) and I have fun playing against them then I don't really care.

U BUY £25 BOX OF TOY SOLIDER.

Y U NO PAINT?!

I've said this before, and I stand by it to the last.
I couldn't ever go out and buy a nice new kit, put it together with some sweet conversions and then leave it as it is.

IMHO (flame on) painting is a must have. It is, after all a part of the hobby that you're doing. Ultimately it's the persons property to do with what they will, but I could never leave something half finished.

That's like putting on your shoes and not tying the laces.
Sure you save time, but do you really want to trip and DIE?

I thought not.

NOW GET A BRUSH, DAMMIT!

brettz123 wrote:Sure it is part of the hobby but some people just play the game and don't partake in the hobby. To each his own I suppose.

I'd like then to reiterate my question :

Hyd wrote:There are quite a lot of games out there; why pick one that involves painting when you don't like it ?

I'm saying this purely out of curiosity.

Hyd wrote:

brettz123 wrote:Sure it is part of the hobby but some people just play the game and don't partake in the hobby. To each his own I suppose.

I'd like then to reiterate my question :

Hyd wrote:There are quite a lot of games out there; why pick one that involves painting when you don't like it ?

I'm saying this purely out of curiosity.

Because they like the actual game? Because they like the models?

The game doesn't require painting in any way, shape or form. Saying that people that only wan't to play the game should be required to paint the models in order to enjoy the part of the hobby that they like is ridiculous and is basically the same as saying that people that only buy the models to build and paint, should then be forced to play with them!

Painting may be a part of your hobby, but it doesn't mean that it is a part of everyone else's.

That being said, you are free to refuse playing anyone that doesn't have a fully painted army if your enjoyment of the hobby requires you to do so. Free will for everyone!

it takes a certain kind of person to fully commit to painting a full army. I have been painting 5 years and love it. But my SW army is still not finished and i am a person that is crazy about painting. Its my favorite hobby but it still takes a lot of time and devotion to learn and become competent.

Hyd wrote:

brettz123 wrote:Sure it is part of the hobby but some people just play the game and don't partake in the hobby. To each his own I suppose.

I'd like then to reiterate my question :

Hyd wrote:There are quite a lot of games out there; why pick one that involves painting when you don't like it ?

I'm saying this purely out of curiosity.

Not to answer for other people but I would imagine because they like the look of the models or enjoy the background. Or maybe it is just what is being played.

And out of curiosity I would ask you what miniature game doesn't involve painting as one of the unstated goals of the game?

I paint my armies but I understand that some people just don't want to or want to and don't have the time.

KGatch113 wrote:

If you are not going to paint your models, why not just use chits? Or print up paper pictures and put them on bases?

Painting the model is part of the game. Not just because they should be painted, but to distinguish units from one another, to show who sergeants and commanders are, and to avoid getting your unpainted models mixed with Joe's unpainted models. Unpainted models make gameplay harder, which lessens the experience.

I work hard to put a nice army on the table. Don't expect to play me if I don't see you at least trying. It's a matter of respect. You're spitting in my face when you say it doesn't matter if the models are painted or not.

Go play something else then.

Am I elitest? Sure and there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't think I'd want to play an asshat like you. If you don't want to play against unpainted armies that is fine and dandy, but maybe you can lay off implying that somebody who does not paint 'isn't trying'. There are plenty of people who play these games to find people who play in a style suited to your taste without implying that those who don't play to your taste are doing it wrong.

Brother Axel wrote:That's like putting on your shoes and not tying the laces.
Sure you save time, but do you really want to trip and DIE?

No, it really isn't; not painting my models will not increase my risk of tripping myself up and braining myself on a paving slab. Comparing not painting your models to not doing something that could save your life is going to be difficult to top when it comes to the World's Worst Comparisons awards.

Anywho, someone mentioned that one of their friends was a painter when he got the inspiration to paint, and that sometimes he could go a year without painting. That's me (not his friend (no, I don't mean we can't be friends ), but the same sort of person). A month or so two ago, I decided to start painting my Eldar after over a year of not touching a brush. I painted my Farseer, my Autarch, half the top part of a Fire Prism hull, undercoated most of my army, bought new brushes and paints, then lost the will. The same happened with my CSM, Tau, Lizardmen and WoC.

I'm also a fussy painter and a perfectionist, as well as someone who wants to do it themselves with their own ideas. Slapping on a basecoat, detailing, and dipping all in X, Y and Z colours because they're easy, is not a route I would take, because it's not my scheme. Paying someone else to do it is out, because it's not my work. I dislike painting at the best of times; it feels like a chore and the results are never even close to what I wanted, so i'm always left disappointed.

Sure, I can't enter painted only events, but feth it, I cannot bring myself to rush an army, or to leave little errors alone, or to have any model worse than another. If you don't want to play me, fine. I am okay with having unpainted models, if you're not then that's your problem, not mine, so don't talk to me about it.

Painting can get people down, it's a tough skill to learn and has a steep learning curve.
Converting on the other hand is more simple and gives a straight away cool looking model.

I personally would prefer to have my opponent at least try to paint, but I wouldn't ask them to learn on their nicely converted model.

People do the hobby how they want it's their choice.

brettz123 wrote:
And out of curiosity I would ask you what miniature game doesn't involve painting as one of the unstated goals of the game?

AT-43, Confrontation: Age of Ragnarok, Heroclix, Mage Knight, D&D Minis, Star Wars Minis, Monsterpocalypse, Axis and Allies Minis, Wings of Glory, and Heroscape to name a few.

I shattered my elbow in the past.

I have pretty significant nerve damage in the dominant arm that I'd use for painting. If I try to do anything precise such as, let's say painting a model, after about 10 minutes my arm will be twitching and shuddering so much that I am completely unable to hold the brush still.

Guess that makes me one of those lazy people who shouldn't be able to play, right? :|

Some people are not going to paint them because they don't want to commit yet to that army.

Next two weeks, the stuffs back on sale in the used bin. Seeing as the rules change as they do, who is to say that thats a wrong stance to take?


just saying....

Platuan4th wrote:

brettz123 wrote:
And out of curiosity I would ask you what miniature game doesn't involve painting as one of the unstated goals of the game?

AT-43, Confrontation: Age of Ragnarok, Heroclix, Mage Knight, D&D Minis, Star Wars Minis, Monsterpocalypse, Axis and Allies Minis, Wings of Glory, and Heroscape to name a few.

Technically Dust I guess also counts. Though thats more of a Tactics thing since Tactics is your average board game compared to the table top Warfare