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Made in gb
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The Trandoshans in The Clone Wars (with the exception of the junk hauler/smuggler guy) had the Bossk look. The ones in the Republic Commando game were weird lizard abominations.
   
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Under the couch

To be fair, it wouldn't be the first time an alien species in Star Wars had significant variation in looks.

 
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 gorgon wrote:


I'll answer your question with a question -- if it was canon, would it make folks feel better about shorter forearms?


If it's from the main source, then Trandoshans they are


I struggle to understand why an official explanation is required for something that one's brain is perfectly capable of solving, though.

1) See a Trandosian with shorter forearms.
2) Conclude that some Trandosians have shorter forearms.

Right? Does everything new or slightly different in a fictional universe require some kind of encyclopedia entry?

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When something has previously been portrayed a certain way, and then is suddenly portrayed in a different way, then yes, it tends to be jarring unless some explanation is provided for the change.


 
   
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We can't really see the faces in that pic (I suspect this is intentional), but if we assume that they're reptilian-looking (eyes being added by CGI in post?), the biggest 'something' will be forearm length. Because otherwise they're scaly, skull-crested and barefoot, with a skin hue that I *think* has been seen before.

So it's interesting to me that some people may not be able to reconcile that one aspect without assistance. Especially given that the Trandosians are a small area of the IP that haven't been explored in great depth.

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We can see the profile, and hitherto Trandoshans have possessed a snout. These do not appear to have snouts.

Skin tone, physical size, even proportion, and many other things can be explained, in fact don't need to be explained, by ethnicity, gender or general genetic variance.

Lacking a physical feature that on real world Earth would get them categorised as a different species either needs addressing or means they're not Trandoshans.

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Or that no one feels compelled to keep using obviously fake makeup for their aliens because it's not 1980 anymore.

Seriously, it's been 40 years. Is this really the kind of detail that matters? I ask that question already knowing the answer and remembering why I hate fandom, but still. I care far more about good stories than the cheap rubber arms the man in the suit happens to be wearing it it baffles me that these are the things people choose to be concerned with.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/06 20:49:01


   
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For absolute clarity.

From that pic, they’re not Trandoshan.

But, once we see the show, if they’re called Trandoshan? Not a problem for me.

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 LordofHats wrote:
Or that no one feels compelled to keep using obviously fake makeup for their aliens because it's not 1980 anymore.

Seriously, it's been 40 years. Is this really the kind of detail that matters? I ask that question already knowing the answer and remembering why I hate fandom, but still. I care far more about good stories than the cheap rubber arms the man in the suit happens to be wearing it it baffles me that these are the things people choose to be concerned with.


"A rose by any other name" works in reverse. You can't make something that looks different from how it's supposed to, call it a name and then have people not scratch their heads collectively and say "but that's not what they look like."

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

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 LordofHats wrote:
Or that no one feels compelled to keep using obviously fake makeup for their aliens because it's not 1980 anymore.

Seriously, it's been 40 years. Is this really the kind of detail that matters? I ask that question already knowing the answer and remembering why I hate fandom, but still. I care far more about good stories than the cheap rubber arms the man in the suit happens to be wearing it it baffles me that these are the things people choose to be concerned with.

It 'baffles you' that in a visual medium, people prefer it when the visuals are right? Or are you just being disingenuous for effect, here?

Updating a look with modern techniques is fine. Doctor Who has done a pretty good job of this over the years, updating old designs while staying true to the original, or changing things in a way that makes sense in the setting. Star Trek has generally done a worse job of it, with changes for the sake of change that have tended to go over badly with fans. A good redesign should keep the visual cues from the original, because those visual cues are how we recognise what they are supposed to be.

When an alien species gets a comprehensive redesign for no discernible purpose (and it's not just the forearms - as others have pointed out, the faces and the feet also look completely wrong) it's immersion-breaking. You may not find that a problem, and if so that's good for you. And at the end of the day, it's (for me, at least) far less of a concern than whether or not the story is good. It's certainly not as large an issue as, say, Yoda apparently being a completely different species in Episode 1, since he was actually an important part of the story rather than what has been until now just a background alien species. But it is irritating when things like this are inexplicably changed, because it doesn't look 'right'.



 
   
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 insaniak wrote:

It 'baffles you' that in a visual medium, people prefer it when the visuals are right? Or are you just being disingenuous for effect, here?


I think there's a very wide void between "right" and "exactly the same," the latter of which seems to be the only thing anyone cares about. I looked at that screenshot and immediately though Trandoshian (if only because, unless they're a completely new race Trandoshian is the only thing they can be). I'm not going to quibble over tiny insignificant details of a cheap costume from forever ago like how pronounced the nose bridge is or the feet not being giant rubber booties.

About as petty as all the butt hurt about the Klingon redesign from ItD. That was a decent enough redesign. The Klingon's were still discernably Klingon, even though they looked quite different. If we're talking about STD style "and now they look completely different" then there might be a point, but claiming this redesign (if it is a redesign) is some unconnectable departure from the only Trandoshian to have ever been on screen is just petty. It's not that different. You could write off the distinctions as "we lost the rubber suit and didn't feel like making more of them" or "these are Southern Trandoshians and they look different" but is that really the content we want to waste storytelling time on? Just call them Space Lizards and lets get on with things that matter.

There's obviously a degree of subjectivity here, but I struggle to see this as anymore more than fandom at its obsessive pettiest.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 00:18:54


   
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 LordofHats wrote:
 insaniak wrote:

It 'baffles you' that in a visual medium, people prefer it when the visuals are right? Or are you just being disingenuous for effect, here?


I think there's a very wide void between "right" and "exactly the same," the latter of which seems to be the only thing anyone cares about.


I think you'll find if they looked right, nobody would care if they weren't exactly the same. The issue here is wrong Trandoshans.

I looked at that screenshot and immediately though Trandoshian (if only because, unless they're a completely new race Trandoshian is the only thing they can be). I'm not going to quibble over tiny insignificant details of a cheap costume from forever ago like how pronounced the nose bridge is or the feet not being giant rubber booties.


Firstly, there's no 'I' in Trandoshan. But then, if you looked at that image, knowing it was from a Star Wars product, and thought "those must be Trandoshans" then it isn't surprising you didn't know that. There's at least two alien species from the opening act of ROTJ they could be without anything like as radical a redesign as they'd need to have had to be Trandoshan.


About as petty as all the butt hurt about the Klingon redesign from ItD. That was a decent enough redesign. The Klingon's were still discernably Klingon, even though they looked quite different. If we're talking about STD style "and now they look completely different" then there might be a point, but claiming this redesign (if it is a redesign) is some unconnectable departure from the only Trandoshian to have ever been on screen is just petty. It's not that different. You could write off the distinctions as "we lost the rubber suit and didn't feel like making more of them" or "these are Southern Trandoshians and they look different" but is that really the content we want to waste storytelling time on? Just call them Space Lizards and lets get on with things that matter.

There's obviously a degree of subjectivity here, but I struggle to see this as anymore more than fandom at its obsessive pettiest.



You're right, the new Klingions looked like Klingions, because while they were radically overhauled, they also hit certain defining design cues. These don't.

But perhaps lay off the condescending attitude about fandom, given where you are, why it's here and what you're doing?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/07 00:59:39


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The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

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So- in a triumph of doublethink, fans will be confused because the Mandalorian looks too much like Boba Fett.


They will also be confused because the trandoshans do not look enough like Bossk, the trandoshan.

The thing needs to be more different, while being more the same.

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 Gitzbitah wrote:
So- in a triumph of doublethink, fans will be confused because the Mandalorian looks too much like Boba Fett.

They will also be confused because the trandoshans do not look enough like Bossk, the trandoshan.

The thing needs to be more different, while being more the same.


It's like video game sequels. People bitch and moan about getting the exact same skin with new graphics in the same breath they decry the franchise as dead because some mechanic got redesigned or removed.

radical a redesign as they'd need to have had to be Trandoshan.


If it's a redesign there's nothing radical about it. That's subjective, but I don't see the difference other than a few extra decades of better tech making them look less cartoony.

You're right, the new Klingions looked like Klingions, because while they were radically overhauled, they also hit certain defining design cues. These don't.


I don't think you can have defining design ques from the handful of instances (most of which are Bossk who far all we know is some freakishly deformed mutant now) that actually exist.

And I will condescend about fandom when fandom deserves it. Lots of the time, it's a wonderful and fun thing. Then there's that 1% where it just becomes absolutely petty and childish and deserves to be called such.

   
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Well, as you're good enough to admit that your condescending, it saves us all a bunch of time taking the discussion any further.

Cheers.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

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The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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 Gitzbitah wrote:
So- in a triumph of doublethink, fans will be confused because the Mandalorian looks too much like Boba Fett.


They will also be confused because the trandoshans do not look enough like Bossk, the trandoshan.

The thing needs to be more different, while being more the same.

I think you might be conflating different arguments from different people, here.

The thing is, details matter. The titular Mandalorian is clearly recognisable as a Mandalorian because he's wearing Mandalorian-styled armour. He's recognisably not Boba Fett, because his armour is different to Boba Fett's, and because he doesn't look anything like the guy that Boba is cloned from.

These lizard guys aren't recognisably Trandoshan. They appear to have scales, and ridges on their heads, but the faces, arms and feet are all different to what we have seen before for Trandoshans. It won't be particularly 'confusing', since they've helpfully told us that they're Trandoshans, but it does leave people wondering why they don't look like Trandoshans.



 Azreal13 wrote:

You're right, the new Klingions looked like Klingions, ...

I would disagree there. One of the things I found the most amusing about Discovery was the fact that the character that looked the most like a Klingon was the Klingon disguised as a human...






 
   
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 insaniak wrote:
It won't be particularly 'confusing', since they've helpfully told us that they're Trandoshans, but it does leave people wondering why they don't look like Trandoshans.


I think you overestimate how many people have ever even heard the name before. Asking "what race is Bossk" is more often than not probably going to be answered by "who is Bossk?" It's hard to be confused by something you don't know, and I think you need to be pretty deep into Star Wars to know who Bossk is or that he has a race of others who might look like him. It's getting really fringe even by EU standards.

Seriously Bossk showed up a few times in Clone Wars, but I don't even think they used his name in those episodes. There's a super fat Trandoshan in the series too, but I bet no one knew he was one because when I say super fat, I mean super fat. He looks like a generic fat alien, not Bossk's fat cousin. Cut out a few games and an episode of Rebels, and I can't think of many other appearances they've made outside the comics, and the comics are probably the least well known Star Wars products.

I would disagree there. One of the things I found the most amusing about Discovery was the fact that the character that looked the most like a Klingon was the Klingon disguised as a human...


I wouldn't disagree with the Klingon design of STD. They look completely different and look more like the Na'kuhl (or those guys from Beyond) than Klingons.

I mean the redesign from Into Darkness, which was different but still discernably Klingon, and that was a more radical redesign than what we're talking about here.





This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/07 01:41:13


   
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 LordofHats wrote:

I think you overestimate how many people have ever even heard the name before.

I don't think I do. I absolutely agree that the vast majority of people aren't going to have the faintest idea what a Trandoshan is, or whether or not these guys look like one. That's not a reason to not stick to the established look. If the issue was simply that they didn't want to go with something that looked more like a 'traditional' Trandoshan, they could just as easily made them not Trandoshans.



 
   
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 insaniak wrote:
That's not a reason to not stick to the established look.


I just don't see these big differences.

I took one look at them and the most significant difference I noticed is that they're red and their heads have a more human shape (still have the head frills and the flared nostrals though). Most Trandoshans I can think of are yellow/green/gray. I think there were some brown ones in Republic Commando? Either way, They're still not wearing shoes or gloves, and apparently, retain their fondness for stick fights in space (though that just might be the one comic I'm thinking of).

If the issue was simply that they didn't want to go with something that looked more like a 'traditional' Trandoshan, they could just as easily made them not Trandoshans.


They could, but farming nostalgia and then getting confused when fans rage about it is basically the Star Wars bread and butter now

   
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 LordofHats wrote:
I just don't see these big differences.

Sure, so you said. That doesn't mean they're not there, or that they won't be more obvious to some of us.


They could, but farming nostalgia and then getting confused when fans rage about it is basically the Star Wars bread and butter now

I don't see anyone raging. In the grand scheme of things, it's simply not that big a deal. It's just a weird detail.

 
   
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 insaniak wrote:

Sure, so you said. That doesn't mean they're not there, or that they won't be more obvious to some of us.


I don't think it's a question of obviousness as much as subjective value.

I think this squarely falls into the realm of something only repeat viewers will ever care to notice or think much about, and most of the audience isn't obsessive like that. Kind of really begs the question, "does it matter" to which I feel the answer is a very firm "mostly likely not."

I don't see anyone raging. In the grand scheme of things, it's simply not that big a deal. It's just a weird detail.


I mean in a more general sense. Remake A New Hope? People complain that the film is just a rehash of a New Hope. Put Ackbar in a movie again? People complain that he died too cheaply. I feel like it's become a theme where Disney tries to shoe references into the films (similar to what they do in the MCU), but they either mess it up, misjudge how fans will respond, or fans complain. I think the only one of their movies to really get praise for it's mountain of clever references is Rogue One, and some of those references were so obscure/blink and you'll miss they even flew over dedicated fans' heads. This feels kind of like the same thing. Bossk and Boba had a rivalry in the old EU, so it makes sense we'd see "Not Bossk" in "Not Boba's" TV show. Or maybe someone on the crew just really likes lizardmen *shrug*

   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

I always giggle when people try that kind of argument.

"They tried to appeal to fans, but their execution was bad, and fans reacted badly! Man, those people are just unpleasable, there are no other possible ways to interpret this sequence of events."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/07 22:37:29


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 Yodhrin wrote:
I always giggle when people try that kind of argument.


I think you're misreading my meaning.

Even you can't deny there are times where fans behave like unpleasable children. I think Disney though has made numerous missteps (TLJ being one huge shot that missed the barn). The SW fandom is different from the Marvel fandom. I think they assumed what worked for one would work for the other, which is kind of a critical research failure cause anyone can look back on Lucas' closing years and see some of the differences. I don't think that's just down to fans. Marvel has so many retcons fans are fairly accustomed to "it's different now" because that's the history of Marvel. SW had an entire apparatus for producing "one true canon" established. It's much trickier to navigate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/07 23:03:30


   
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I echo the previous thought that the "lizardmen" are probably a new specias of alien, of simply a slightly reamigined Weekquay.



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We'll find out soon enough eh.

 LordofHats wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I always giggle when people try that kind of argument.


I think you're misreading my meaning.

Even you can't deny there are times where fans behave like unpleasable children. I think Disney though has made numerous missteps (TLJ being one huge shot that missed the barn). The SW fandom is different from the Marvel fandom. I think they assumed what worked for one would work for the other, which is kind of a critical research failure cause anyone can look back on Lucas' closing years and see some of the differences. I don't think that's just down to fans. Marvel has so many retcons fans are fairly accustomed to "it's different now" because that's the history of Marvel. SW had an entire apparatus for producing "one true canon" established. It's much trickier to navigate.


I can't deny that. I do assert, firmly, that it happens nowhere near as often as the performatively disinterested pretend it does, and is often blown wildly out of proportion when it does.

And while I agree that they've made mistakes, I don't know that it's about "canon" per se, or some particular militant adherence to it among Star Wars fans - afterall, I'd wager the people most likely to be annoyed by stuff like the Not Trandoshans have a pretty high degree of crossover with the people who were big consumers of what was the EU - so much as it is the "How do you do, Fellow Kids" effect. By which I mean, fans are less concerned about not being pandered to, than they are about companies claiming or attempting to pander to them when they're really doing nothing of the kind or just don't care enough to do it properly.

TBH I really am hoping they're either planning to CGI on the "missing" bits, or they're not "proper" Trandoshans(some kind of offshoot or subspecies?), because Filoni & Favreau are supposed to be more in the One Of Us category than the Fellow Kidders, and it'd be a shame either to find out that's just marketing, or for their efforts to have been cut off at the knees for some behind the scenes reason.

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 LordofHats wrote:

Even you can't deny there are times where fans behave like unpleasable children. I think Disney though has made numerous missteps (TLJ being one huge shot that missed the barn). The SW fandom is different from the Marvel fandom. I think they assumed what worked for one would work for the other, which is kind of a critical research failure cause anyone can look back on Lucas' closing years and see some of the differences. I don't think that's just down to fans. Marvel has so many retcons fans are fairly accustomed to "it's different now" because that's the history of Marvel. SW had an entire apparatus for producing "one true canon" established. It's much trickier to navigate.

How does your boxing of 'fandoms' work for those of us who are fans of both?

I love the MCU movies. I have zero issues with any of the changes made to characters in translating them from comic to movie screen. The thing is, that's an entirely different issue.

My issue with the Trandoshans looking wrong here is far less akin to, say, MCU Peter Parker being Tony Stark's apprentice as it is to the guy in the Warmachine suit being a different guy from one movie to the next. It doesn't really make a difference to the story, but it's an immersion-breaking detail for those of us for whom those details jump out.

It's not about disliking change. It's about internal consistency. Because internal consistency is what makes a made-up universe 'work'.

 
   
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 LordofHats wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I always giggle when people try that kind of argument.


I think you're misreading my meaning.

Even you can't deny there are times where fans behave like unpleasable children. I think Disney though has made numerous missteps (TLJ being one huge shot that missed the barn). The SW fandom is different from the Marvel fandom. I think they assumed what worked for one would work for the other,


I don't think either of those is true. i think they just got crappy directors for the new SW trilogy, let them be writers as well, and didn't stomp on them when they were being stupid.

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This is a super low effort fail. I mean, just don't call them Trandoshans if you're not willing to use the accurate makeup, no effort required. Giving us something that isn't a Trandoshan and doesn't need to be called a Trandoshan, and then insisting anyway that it is indeed a Trandoshan...why?

PS: How do you pronounce "Trandoshan"? Do you put the emphasis on the first or second syllable? TRAN-do-shan or tran-DO-shan?

PPS: For meme's sake, can someone sharpie some snouts onto those bad boys?

   
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They shoulda just made them into Barabel or something. They don't look that bad to me but their faces are a bit too flat for a Trandoshan if you ask me.

 
   
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Under the couch

Barabel have tails. And are pointer, IIRC.


But if they actually are Trandoshans, I expect they'll be explained away as another subspecies, like the five - fingered guys in the cantina in ANH.

 
   
 
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