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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/306509.page <- THIS THREAD CONTAINS THE MOST RECENT VERSIONS OF ALL THE CHARACTERS DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD

Im sure loads of you have a model you used to always love but through time they are no longer in your codex. I thought it would be a good idea to make a place for people to submit rules they've home-brewed for pieces they cant use any more to make them useable in 5th ed. Then we can give some c+c to try and make a fair set of stats/rules for general use.

I'll give my 1st example to get things going....

Cypher (Codex: Chaos Space Marines) - 175 points

BS- 5 WS-5 S-4 T-4 I-6 A-2 W-3 Ld-10 Sv-3+/4++


Gun fighter- Cypher is a master of pistol fighting and is able to hit a target that would be untouchable to any other marksman. If Cypher doesn’t move in the preceding movement phase he may fire both of his pistols at double the normal range (24”) if he does move, he may fire both weapons and re-roll any fails to hit. In close combat his accuracy is so good that he can guide his rounds into vulnerable areas, slipping through tiny gaps in armour or into a fleshy spot to deliver a round directly into the foes’s skull, therefore his attacks ignore armour saves in close combat.

The Lion Sword- Cypher is only rarely seen and from the few scattered reports of his sighting’s, imperial Inquisitors believe him to be slowly making his way towards holy Terra carrying a mighty relic of the Dark Angel's chapter- The Lion Sword . If Cypher is killed he counts as 2 kill points for the opposing team. If he is still alive at the end of the game, or manages to leave play by moving off the enemy’s board edge, the controlling player gets 3 Kill points in annihilation mission. He counts as holding 1 additional objective during any other mission, it is still held by the Chaos player if Cypher moves off the enemy's board edge and is automatically claimed if cypher is defeted.


Thoughts?

remove invo's? no.

and it's vulnerable. venerable is like old and wise. (a venerable dreadnought isn't vulnerable.)

gunfighters a biit powerful... worth 60 on it's own.

cool otherwise.

How about re-roll sucessfull invunerable's, or is that stil going to far?
What point cost would you suggest Captain Solon?

Also I was lead to beleive that the lion sword (or sword of the lion as you call it) was broken. I'm sure some fluff mentions how Cypher never draws it in combat

considering the gunfighter rule, at least 200.

if you want to re-roll sucsessful saves, sure! that's agreeable. but it'd only be in close combat, or at range.

and don't let your weapons auto-hit or anything. it's bad.

Well I was saying a single attack that only wounds 1/3 of the time with the sword, so i didnt think ignoring inv's was too OP. and that could be used in place of having 4 attacks on the charge that would ignore armour.

I'm unsure if it is meant to be broken, the sword on the mini is intact and I think back when he was playable it coud be used. I'm unsure on the rules thay had back then though.

Lexicanum:
The final distinguishing feature of Cypher is his sword. It is a mysterious weapon that he has never been seen to draw on the battlefield. Some rumours say it has some link to the Dark Angels' ancient history, some say it is broken. Most agree that it is probably a sacred artefact of the Dark Angels. Some speculate it is the Lion Sword of the Dark Angels Primarch. Rumour has it that Cypher seeks to reforge the now broken Lion Sword and present it to the Emperor of Mankind, obtaining absolution and forgiveness.

This seems to support both our points of view. also remeber that at one stage Cypher had a C'tan Phase Knife, until he tried to kill aformentioned C'tan with it and lost it, this may have been the sword on the model perhaps?

Aaaah your right! that rings a bell' it was a c'tan phase knife in the rules. However the sword on the model is taller tha cypher himself and slung across his back, i dont know if this would be representing a kinfe who knows.

Maybe going by what Lexicanum says it woud be best not to use it as a weapon then, maybe say it is why killing him would count as an objective? I'll amend the 1's post. What would you think would be a good point cost when geared like this?

Anybody got any other characters they want to suggest?

I'm going onto my next character, Doomrider!

BS- 4 WS-5 S-4 T-4 (5) I-6 A-3 W-3 Ld-10 Sv-3+/5++

Wargear:
Bike with twin-linked meltagun, Deamon weapon, MoS, Bolt pistol.

Allows bike squads to be taken as troops

Special Rules:
Wild Rider- In the movement phase the Doomrider may move through enemy units as if they are not there, as long as he starts and ends his movement phase more than 1" away from an enemy model. He must still take dangerous terrain tests if moving through difficult terrain, and may not pass through allied units.

Wheels of Fire- during the shooting phase the doom rider may make an additional S4 AP5 shooting attack using the flamer template. the narrow end mus be placed touching the rear end of the bike and must be directed back along the line in which he moved in the preceding movement phase.


No idea about a point cost, but what do people think? C+C would be great for either Doomrider or Cypher, and entering any of your own would brilliant (i'm just going to reel through chaos characters so if anybody has any others in mind lets hear them!).

Gorechild wrote:Wheels of Fire- during the shooting phase the doom rider may make an additional S4 AP5 shooting attack using the flamer template. the narrow end mus be placed touching the rear end of the bike and must be directed back along the line in which he moved in the preceding movement phase.

So he only hits where he moved? since he can't move through enemy units this is kind of pointless isnt it? you will end up hitting more of your own units than enemy i.e. the squad following him?

Here are rules for cypher that i use:

CYPHER, THE FALLEN ANGEL 225pts

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Cypher 5 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 3+


Special rules
Independent Character , Gunfighter
Eternal Warrior , Fallen
Fearless , Preferred Enemy: Dark Angels
Unique , 3+ Invulnerable Save
Watched Over

Unit type
Infantry Wargear
Dextra
Sinistra
C'tan phase knife (ignores all saves)


Gunfighter
Cyphers 10 millenium training allows him to fire his pistols with ingrediple skill and allow him fire two weapons and use all pistols as Assault 2
Dextra and Sinistra
This pair of Unique pistols have always been Cypher's favored weapons, and he always keeps them at his side. Dextra is a plasma pistol, and Sinistra is a Bolt pistol. They allow Cypher to Re-roll missed hits and wounds when shooting.
Fallen
Cypher is worth double victory points to Dark angel player
Watched Over
Cypher has the uncanny ability to evade defeat or capture, despite the number of forces which seek his death/imprisonment. If Cypher is reduced to his last wound, roll a D6. On a roll of 3+, remove him from the board. He confers no assault resolution or kill points to the enemy, he has simply vanished.
.

@ BenManicom -

In the movement phase the Doomrider may move through enemy units as if they are not there

he wouldnt be able to if i hadnt specifically written he could

@ goggari - I seem to recall your Cypher rules being very similar to the old rules for him. the phase knife never dissalowed inv saves and after having originay suggested it, hearing other's comments I think its too much. I do agree that eternal warrior and prefered enemy would be sensible additions. What do you think about my idea for the lion sword?

Gorechild wrote:@ BenManicom -

In the movement phase the Doomrider may move through enemy units as if they are not there

Missed that
That rule coupled with his twin linked meltagun make infantry sheilding tanks pointless once again (why does everyone hate the gunline )

well not really, if you have a blob squad it would be difficult to get a 12" move to get all the way past a unit (considering you cant start or end your move within 1" of an enemy).

Any thoughts on points for him? I was thinking 100-150 but wouldnt want to be any omre precise than that without hearing others views

It would make cypher perfect target for the enemy and offers a great possibility to win the match . Maybe...

@ goggari- Yeah thats exactly what I was going for. It gives an in-game reason to hunt him which reflects his fluff. he wont be the sort of unit you could just avoid like with HQ's such as abaddon. What addition so my initial idea do you think should be added to/changed to incorporate both our ideas?

Gorechild wrote:well not really, if you have a blob squad it would be difficult to get a 12" move to get all the way past a unit (considering you cant start or end your move within 1" of an enemy).

Any thoughts on points for him? I was thinking 100-150 but wouldnt want to be any omre precise than that without hearing others views

In which case I have to deploy a dense thick line which is ordnance fodder?

True, but considering it is always fired backwards allong the line doomrider moved you would have at least 2 turns shooting at him before the attack could be used. FRFSRF should take care of it if 120 shots cant kill a bike squad you deserve to get burnt

CYPHER, THE FALLEN ANGEL ---pts

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Cypher 5 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 3+

Special rules
Independent Character , Gunfighter
Eternal Warrior , Fallen
Fearless , Preferred Enemy: Dark Angels
Unique , 3+ Invulnerable Save ,
Watched Over

Unit type
Infantry Wargear
Dextra
Sinistra
C'tan phase knife
Lions sword


Gunfighter- Cypher is a master of pistol fighting and is able to hit a target that would be untouchable to any other marksman. If Cypher doesn’t move in the preceding movement phase he may fire both of his pistols at double the normal range (24”) if he does move, he may fire both weapons and re-roll any fails to hit. In close combat his accuracy is so good that he can guide his rounds into vulnerable areas, slipping through tiny gaps in armour or into a fleshy spot to deliver a round directly into the foes’s skull, therefore his attacks ignore armour saves in close combat.

Dextra and Sinistra- This pair of Unique pistols have always been Cypher's favored weapons, and he always keeps them at his side. Dextra is a plasma pistol, and Sinistra is a Bolt pistol. They allow Cypher to Re-roll missed hits and wounds when shooting.

Fallen- Cypher is worth double victory points to Dark angel player

Watched Over- Cypher has the uncanny ability to evade defeat or capture, despite the number of forces which seek his death/imprisonment. If Cypher is reduced to his last wound, roll a D6. On a roll of 3+, remove him from the board. He confers no assault resolution or kill points to the enemy, he has simply vanished.

The Lion Sword- Cypher is only rarely seen and from the few scattered reports of his sighting’s, imperial Inquisitors believe him to be slowly making his way towards holy Terra carrying a mighty relic of the Dark Angel's chapter- The Lion Sword . If Cypher is killed he counts as 2 kill points for the opposing team. If he is still alive at the end of the game, or manages to leave play by moving off the enemy’s board edge, the controlling player gets 3 Kill points in annihilation mission. He counts as holding 1 additional objective during any other mission, it is still held by the Chaos player if Cypher moves off the enemy's board edge and is automatically claimed if cypher is defeted.


i think he would have the 3+ inv save cause his armour. (i mean he does have unique armour)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, i forgot to remove/change rules of dextra and sinistra

@ gogari- Detra/Sinstra and gunfighter conflict with one another, my rule allows re-rolls at 12", yours allows re-rolls ant any range. As do Fallen and Lion Sword slightly, would he be worth 4 VP's to Dark Angels??
3++ or 4++ woud be good either way, i was just thinking more about keeping his point cost down.

I'd suggest dextra/sinstra could be re-roll to wound only?

With re-roll to hit at >12" and re roll to wound up to 24". hitting on 2+. with 3++ save. ignoring armour in combat I'd say he'd have to at least 200 points. The Lion sword and fallen would draw a lot of attention to him so that coud justify his points being a little lower. I dont have my dex with me (im at work) what references for points do we have? all i know off the top of my head is 'baddon at 275 points, Kharn at 160 and typhus at 225? I'd (with rules like this put him in the Typhus ball park for point cost. thoughts?

Well, it would make the most sense 4 vp for DA (he is fallen and he has a holy relic of DAs). Dextra and Sinistra re-roll to wound, ok with me. So points around 225, still?

Had your previous rule set been play tested? it seems a little cheap to have a model that ignores all saves, Thats Nightbringer teritory . depending if your previous rules have been tested and people you have played see it as balanced then i'd say these rules might desreve a small point reduction

You mean rules that i first posted? Or the ones that i mixed?

The first ones ive played for a while now.

I ment the initial ones you posted. I would be really impressed if you'd tested the new ones in the last coupe hours

Did you get many objections to the old ones?

bols has some good write ups for cypher doom rider and etc take a look.

no objections from anyone, ive could have taken it with me to one apocalypse battle hosted by my local gaming store >_>


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wonder, could this:
Divine Protection- If Cypher is ever affected by an attack that would cause Instant Death or remove him from play, he only takes a single wound from the attack. If Cypher is reduced to 0 Wounds or would be removed as a casualty for any reason, don't remove him from the battlefield -- just place the model on its side to note his location.

At the beginning of his controlling player's turn, roll a D6. On a 1, 2 or 3, Cypher is removed from play without a trace. On a 4+, he has cheated certain death again, scrambling into view of his attackers, bloodied but unbowed. Cypher is restored to 1 Wound and may be placed anywhere on the battlefield within 12" of his current location. He can move and fight normally in the turn he reappears. Furthermore, in missions that use kill points, Cypher (and his squad of Fallen Angels) never concedes a kill point.

be mixed with this:
Watched Over- Cypher has the uncanny ability to evade defeat or capture, despite the number of forces which seek his death/imprisonment.
If Cypher is reduced to his last wound, roll a D6. On a roll of 3+, remove him from the board. He confers no assault resolution or kill points to the enemy, he has simply vanished.

Divine protection seems a bit silly, it competely goes against the previous idea of him being worth a lot of kill points and therefore being hunted would be competely removed. I wasnt aiming to make him the most amazing character possible, I was just going for making an interesting and different character. I think in the old dex he was in the 160-170 point range so he isnt intended to be an unstopable IC, just a good, interesting piece that reflects his fuff.

I thought you would say something like that

CYPHER, THE FALLEN ANGEL 195 points

WS-5 BS-5 S-4 T-4 W-3 I-5 A-3 Ld-10 Sv-3++

Special rules:
Independent Character, Unique, Eternal Warrior, Fearless, Gunfighter, Fallen.

Unit type- Infantry

Wargear- Dextra and Sinistra, Lions sword


Gunfighter- Cypher is a master of pistol fighting and is able to hit a target that would be untouchable to any other marksman. If Cypher doesn’t move in the preceding movement phase he may fire both of his pistols at double the normal range (24”) if he does move, he may fire both weapons and re-roll any fails to hit. In close combat his fire his shots with such accuracythat he can guide his rounds into weak points in armour or into an exposed fleshy spot to deliver a round directly into the foes’s skull, because of this his attacks ignore armour saves in close combat.

Dextra and Sinistra- This pair of Unique pistols have always been Cypher's favored weapons, and he always keeps them at his side. Dextra is a plasma pistol, and Sinistra is a Bolt pistol. They allow Cypher to Re-roll any failed wounds when shooting.

Fallen- This confers the USR Prefered enemy: Dark Angels on Cypher. In addition, Cypher is worth double victory points to Dark angel player

The Lion Sword- Cypher is only rarely seen and from the few scattered reports of his sighting’s, imperial Inquisitors believe him to be slowly making his way towards holy Terra carrying a mighty relic of the Dark Angel's chapter- The Lion Sword . If Cypher is killed he counts as 2 kill points for the opposing team. If he is still alive at the end of the game, or manages to leave play by moving off the opposing players board edge the controlling player gets 3 Kill points in any appropriate mission. He counts as holding 1 additional objective during any objective based missions, it is still held by the Chaos player if Cypher moves off the enemy's board edge and is automatically claimed by the army that killed him if cypher is defeted.

But no Watched over or divine protection?