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So I played last night at 1000 pts and I think my opponent was fairly significantly over.

He had:

Company Command Sqd w/ Lascannon
Sly Marbo
2 Vet Sqds w/ Demolitions
2 Devil Dogs
2 Vendettas
Hydra
Manticore

Without any upgrades I calculate this to be 1085. I know it doesn't seem like much but he should have been down marbo+ or hydra+ both of which would have been game altering massively in my favor.

So I don't know what to do. I don't want to ask to read his list every time we play, but if you can't get a 1000 pt list right it kind of concerns me that this will happen again and for a bigger amount in other games. Any suggestions?

Don't stand for it. I know it may seem harsh or petty of you to bring it up, but you'll be doing him a favour in the long run.
We have a guy like this in our store, he started off going over by 50pts now and again, and now he goes over by 500pts.
It's better to let him know that he's doing it now than later.

Don't stand for it,yeah.

15 or 20 points is too close for me. 85 id outrageous. I only tolerate up to like 10 points.

Don't be shy about asking to see an army list.

I'm always more than happy to hand my army list over to my opponent for inspection, if nothing else so that they can have peace of mind that I won't try and cheat them. Likewise, I routinely ask to see army lists, especially if I don't know the codex well enough to calculate a point value just based on what he's got on the tabletop.

It's also a good habit simply because some wargear can't be shown on the models (such as Tau hardwired systems or Daemon gifts).

And if he's somehow miscalculated, politely point out that you think X unit might be more than he's written it down as, or what have you.

Miscalculations happen more often than cheating, in my experience.

Then again, if he gets defensive or argumentative, and he won't consider that he made a mistake (or he could well be trying to pull something on you), simply politely decline to play and find a new opponent.

My rule of thumb is that a 1% overage is fine, but more than that is not. So in a 2000 point game, I don't care if he's fielding 2000 to 2020 points, but once he's at 2025, it's time to start objecting.

10 points either way is fine. More than that (i.e. the 85 you mentioned) is way uncool.

If you agree on 1000 pts, then you should play 1000 pts. Even 5-10 points can make a big difference if you use them well. Ask to see the list, remind him politely of the limit & ask him to pear his list down accordingly. It's just a good habit to get in to because official tournaments don't allow "slop" in lists. Might as well get used to it in casual games as well.

If an opponent flatly refuses to let you see their list then I'd assume they knew there was something wrong with it and find another person to play. If its a genuine mistake or they let you see and you see somthing that doesnt look right then call them on it. If its a genuine mistake, they should be cool with it and either take a unit out or allow you to add a little extra in. As SaintHazard said, If they get defensive about stuff it would suggest they know somthing is up, In that instance, just play sombody who isnt a cheater

Don't let him take the piss. If its a 1000 point battle specified then make sure he has only up to that amount. I always have a copy of my army list written up for my opponent to read + the codex if they need to clarify rules etc. At best it makes him seem sloppy/careless. At worst it makes him out as a cheat. You have every right to request their army list to look at once deployment has begun. Theres no plausible reason for him to refuse you.

The point amount you agree to is the limit. You're allowed to be under, but not over by any ammount. If you play a 1500 point game then thats your limit. If your list is 1525, might as well play a 1525 point game instead

n0t_u wrote:The point amount you agree to is the limit. You're allowed to be under, but not over by any ammount. If you play a 1500 point game then thats your limit. If your list is 1525, might as well play a 1525 point game instead

This. Sometimes when I play with my friends one of us will ask, "hey, can we add 5-20 points so I can fit in X." We usually go with it, but you then get to take that many additional points in your army.

5-10 points is too much, as those are usually the increments used to assign point costs. Most of the cheapest upgrades come at 5 points, so once they go over that, it means they have a miniscule advantage.

I’m ok with 10 pts over. I play with allot of kids that don’t have lists and they don’t really read the codex so their points were way off. There was this one kid that thought he had 1000 pts but he really had about 2000! He was IG. When i said that he had nowhere near 1000pts and i started helping him take out things he didn’t need he started to freak out. That’s why I make all the kids at my store bring lists.

I will admit this is something kinda hard to deal with. I had a buddy who did this almost every game. Even being polite about it when you bring it up they act like your the one who is Fing up for asking.

I can understand going over a few points of making a mistake but when its constant it can be irritating.

1000 points is 1000 points. An 80 point differential is an entire Eldar Fire Dragon squad. 35 points is a Rhino. 10 points is a meltagun. 3 points is a Singing spear, 1 point is a search light.

As a long-time player I have never and will never allow an opponent to play over the point limit established before the game. Much of the time, success in 40k comes down to synergy and even a single point can be significantly relevant to the outcome of a game. I've seen players unoficially blacklisted from gaming groups for behavior that the OP describes.

To be honest, I’ve never even known anyone that thinks it’s ok to be over point limit by even a single point... the few people who did do it knew it wasn't right but chose to do it anyway and got caught. Viewing the point limit as a “guideline” as opposed to a rule doesn’t make any sense to me… it’d be the equivalent of saying; “that extra wargeer or unit is free because I feel like making it free.”

If the guy does it again, call him on it. If you find its a recurring problem then just refuse to play him.

Really, for friendly games, I could care less. And so could my friends. We are playing low-points games because I am still learning, and sometimes it's hrd to squeeze in the stuffto make the army work right without going a few points over. And we ant to have fun. And it's more fun for everyone if we play the armies that work the way we want them to, than if we spend the game thinking "if I had 2 more points..."

I make some points calculation errors too. I don't mean to, but we all take into account that I have a few difficulties to overcome in that area. And we ALWAYS double check how many dice I am rolling... I would never intentionally cheat, it's just that numbers aren't my thing anymore.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote: I don't want to ask to read his list every time we play

Why not? It's his duty to show it to you. If he doesn't, he is a cheater.

I've agreed to play underpoints occasionally. But I never agree to play against an opponent who does not show me an army list.

Most of the time the max 'over-pointage' that my friends and I have is over 3 or 4. For example, yesterday we played 1500, he had 1503 and I had 1500.

Once it gets to 5 or over you should probably drop something, as a lot of things come in increments of 5. But I'm fine with a couple of points over. It's no big deal to me. Sure it's a minuscule advantage but it's a friendly game so it's not like he is bringing Nob Bikers and I am bringing Long Fangs+Razorback spam.

Of course in a tournament game going over the alloted points is unacceptable.

However what your opponent did was unacceptable as well. You can get a ton of stuff of 85 points, especially in the IG. Yeah I would say he cheated. There's miscalculations and I seriously doubt that this was a miscalculation.

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the responses.

I am pretty much in the camp that 1001 pts isnt 1000 pts. But other than that our group is pretty friendly and casual so I was worried if demanding to see the guys list every game would change the atmosphere a little.

I am sort of in charge of our group though, I think I'm gonna make it a rule that everyone exchanges lists before every game. Should have been happening anyway but most of us gave the other guy the benefit of the doubt.

I've never heard of a player who didn't have a carefully calculated list ready to show on demand, and never anyone who didn't want me to see it. I even make two copies, I have my original full of shorthand and abbreviations that I use when putting things together. Then I rewrite and print out a neat legible copy with everything clearly explained for my opponents or tournament organizers to read.
In friendly games I'll allow my opponents 10 points if it's a matter of miscalculation, and if I have an easy place to put that 10 points into my list quickly I'll match it. But I'll let it go too if I don't.

I never go over the limit, to make an army that fits in the points is part of the game and for me part of the fun.

But I tolerate 10-15 points over.

I occasionally go one to four points over if it's okay with my opponent (sometimes army lists just don't add up right). And I certainly tolerate it as well.

I think my only list that goes over is my Ork list, which is 1103 points, due to an ammo runt that can be easily removed to make it an even 1100. I don't think I've even bothered to include him, just assumed it'd be best to stick with 1100 points than ask if it's okay if I take a piece of wargear that takes me 3 points over.

Most of my lists end up either right on the money or 1-5 points short.

Melissia wrote:I occasionally go one to four points over if it's okay with my opponent (sometimes army lists just don't add up right). And I certainly tolerate it as well.

Same I'm terrible with math. If it doesn't add up completely right thats fine. If theres time I ask for them to trim the list to the points limit.

I don't generally mind people going over, unless it's guard. For guard, that extra 5 to 35 points could be a lot. could be another flamer, or a few heavy weapons, or even an extra sentinel.

Oh, I'm great with math. But C:WH has a lot of odd-costing equipment and upgrades. So you'll have squads that have costs ending in 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, etc. So do you stop at 1996 points, or 2001 points? Most people are okay with the latter.

^ This makes sense. If you go over a little because otherwise you'd be short, that's perfectly acceptable.

When I play with my roomates at the house, where we generally test new things and proxy a decent ammount we dont mind if someone is over a few. When I play with complete strangers i bring a printed list of 1k, 1.5k, and 2k. Anything else I will write up on the spot and i expect my opponents to do the same. It's a rule and the only way to keep things balanced in a game that has a "few" balance issues. I am however super tolerant with kids.

You need to put a stop to that garbage right now. Sometimes it is honest. I recently caught a Tau player with about 250 too many points at 1750. I think he was choosing between units and forgot to axe one or two. He's young, twitchy, and kind of a goober, but honest. Others will keep taking an inch to see how many miles they can get, then give you some bs story about how it happened. It is a good idea to mentally add up your opponent's army, even if it's rough numbers. And, you can always exchange lists. If your opponent refuses, he may have something to hide and not be worth playing.