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I'm looking for a reason to use Cheknov's (Spell Check?) ability "Send the next wave" in a 1,000 point tourny coming up. Now I know Conscripts aren't the best because you can have power blobs, and I would have a blob or two as well as Basilisks backing everything up. (Very Valhallan Fluff-like). Even though Conscripts are "Stubborn" with Cheknov, they still have LD 5, I know that, however, what if I put a Lord Commissar with them? Giving them LD 10, and Stubborn, then when they die they will just come back!

Not fit for a tourny at all? Or would it have some potential? Any advice is appreciated!

When you Send in the Next Wave, any ICs attached are killed and don't respawn. The ideal usage of the power as a 20 man speed bump for artillery sitting on the table edge. They can guarantee an extra turn of shooting against assault armies, but the question is: is that worth a fifth of your points?

Lord Commissars are a rip off and they're terrible, and when the conscripts die, they come back at moral 5 again, cause the Lord Comnissar is probably dead to. A smart opponent will probably ignore, as BS 2 with lasguns isn't going to do much, and if they don't die, the ability is wasted.

Ok, so your saying use them in 20 man squads to protect my artillery?

I have seen this done, actually I've played against it in fact. It does actually work surprisingly. Well, it depends on the game type to. If we're talking kill points, maybe not so much. But control and capture, this method is fairly solid if you know how to play it right. But basically my opponent had either 1 50 man conscript unit led by Yarrick himself. The nice thing about him I guess is that he has the psuedo-"we'll be back rule" if he dies. But the strategy was to rush the entire 50 man conscript force across the table and into assault asap. While behind it he had platoon and a lot of heavy weapon teams to support it. Fortunately for me I killed Yarrick and he never came back. I widdled down his force until he removed them from the table and brought them back. The game ended in a tie, but I heard from others who played his army was that it was pretty nasty. So if I were you I would play this list casually and get a feel for it before you go to a tourney with it.

Also, even with BS2, if you FRFSRF 50 conscripts at 12in. You're gonna do some damage I would think. According to math-hammer, that comes out to about 50 hits, if I'm correct. From there you have Str 3 so that'll bring it down to 20-30 wounds depending on the opponent.

That sounds pretty nasty, I have Yarrick too! I think I will try that out, and make a list. Thanks Whitewolf.

You're welcome. Just remember that even thought you spend a fair amount of points for them, they are in fact a suicide squad meant to rush across no man's land. The nice thing about this suicide squad though is that it comes back. But you should keep that to a minimum if at all possible. Usually you'll only need to do it once a game. At 1,000pts I'd only do 1 full conscript squad. At 2000 I'd do 2. The game will probably end in either a tie or you winning which is a nice thing. Simply because you have so many men on the field, your opponent will never be able to get withing 3in of the objective, which was my problem. The moment I was about to take his objective on the last turn, he brought his conscripts back and flooded the damn thing. It would have been humorous had it of not been so aggravating .

So I should run cheknov with it? Also, I know what you mean! I couldn't even reach the objective with a tyranid player spawning 13 gaunts a turn today... my only loss.

It sounds pretty cool to me. Not to mention taking HWTs with lascannons can really give them that anti-tank/ heavy infantry that artillery can't provide.

Sounds cool. Go for it!

Not sure whether to sell of my mix of guard right now for some Valhallan....or get more cadians...

I'm gonna do a game on Vassal with a list in a bit.

Don't run anything in squads larger than 30. After that it is too big to get the whole squad firing or participating in close combat. I used to run Guard with Conscripts, and I dropped both Chenkov and SitNW because they weren't points efficient enough. The point of Conscripts is to be as cheap as possible. Don't drag Yarrick into this either; a regular Power Blob does that job easier for less points.

Spending 80 points on a 20 man squad that'll give your guns cover and buy them an extra turn of shooting is probably efficient. Spending 200 points to possibly do that twice isn't.

Samus_aran115 wrote:anti-tank/ heavy infantry that artillery can't provide.

Also: what?

as far as I can tell, conscripts alone serve one purpose a cheap and easy throwaway unit that gives your entire army a 4+ cover save for a turn or two.

When you add chenkov, they keep the cover save, but they also gain the ability to do unfortunate things to your opponent on objectives games, and have the ability to seriously disrupt your opponent if they make it over onto your side of the board.

Basically, it changes the game from "can I kill 50 dudes?" to "can I kill 50 dudes EVERY TURN?!" If you think you can make use of that, chenkov is probably worth it. Otherwise, just use them as the sabot for the rest of your army that they are.

Question. If he takes creed, can he outflank the conscripts after he uses SITNW?

I think this would do much better in objective games, I don't think I'd use it in KP, but even in KP, they provide a shield for my basilisks.

no.

"the new unit moves onto the board from the player's board edge..."

Because otherwise, I'd play that guard army every game.

Creed+conscripts+alrahem+more conscripts....

... every turn 170 guardsmen show up from a random board edge...

Probably, thanks to some very specific wording: "That unit has the Scouts special rule for the duration of the game."

EDIT: Ignore me, Ailaros has it right.

I think I might try out a game, a conscript squad, and a power blob moving up will be tough for them, do you want to kill the deadly power blob, or risk being overwhelmed by 50 men. then when those men die, then go back to guard the objective/basilisks.

Ech, Consripts. Hafta so no. They have no punch whatsoever and are a waste of points. Whatever 'protection' they may offer will be easily outset by a havoc launcher.

I always considered using Conscripts as mentioned above for a cover save. Back it up with a blob and some Ogryn or Riders. Assault with the conscripts to bunch everybody up. Then on your turn, pull the conscripts out. This will leave the enemies bunched up, ready for templates and shooting, then to be charged again by your "real" units.

Of course, then the conscripts walk back on your side to cover an objective.

I think I almost like the ability to remove them better than the ability to bring them back. And yeah, you'll want to bump up their LD and/or give them stubborn and rerolls though various means, but it sounds fun, at least.

ElCheezus wrote:I think I almost like the ability to remove them better than the ability to bring them back.

lol, spoken like a true guard player.

Making conscripts work is very expensive, but if you go the Chenkov + Send in the Next Wave route, why not get sergeant Kell? He will make the conscripts LD9 from 12 inches away with rerolls and stubborn because of Chenkov(and he is pretty damn good in close combat).
However this costs 220+ points. Just Chenkov, Kell and Send in the Next Wave for one squad. In addition you have to pay for a at least 40 conscripts (it is not worth it otherwise), preferably two squads (which adds another hefty sum for SitNW).
I did it only once, with a single 40 man conscript squad at 1500 points and it was glorious because my opponent was caught completely by surprise. However, I had to sacrifice basically my whole heavy support section, and a lot of other firepower. Which, dependin on your play style, can be nice or not.
Just a note - the conscripts are sacrificial unit, but especially with these outrageously expensive upgrades they have to be sacrificed for a very good thing. They require a lot of thinking and positioning, which is kind of counter intuitive - you cannot just throw the conscripts in the grinder.

Incidentally, adding Kell and conscripts without Chenkov/SitNW makes them pretty cool if you have some other command structure already (Lord Commissar).

P.S. In my experience you need to lose the conscripts two times(and gain a significant tactical advantage) to justify taking them in such an expensive way.

Conscript squads are awful. There is nothing they can accomplish that wouldn't be done 100x better by regular guardsmen.

Sure, they can get Send in the Next Wave (which makes them more expensive than regular guardsmen), but with Ld5 they run pretty much the first time they have to take any check, and keep on running. And SitnW isn't even that great unless you're playingwith zero objectives or missions and can just sit in your deployment zone all game. Adding a Lord Commissar just compounds your already very poor investment, and as already stated he doesn't get to come back with the rest of them.

I might screw around with Conscripts in huge games that are just for fun, but to rely on them in a tournament setting, much less a 1000-point tournament, is downright stupid.

@Plasminator: What the hell are you talking about? Listen up, Maggots! only works for orders, nothing else. And no, he's not "pretty damn good" in close combat. He's about as potent as a vet. sgt with a powerfist.

Got to echo Terminus here. Conscripts are junk. They have a lower BS, a lower Ld, no access to special/heavy weapons, no access to Commisars, no access to power weapons period. AND you have to pay extra point to bring them back from the dead?

They should be priced the same as Grots as they share pretty much the same statline (just without the extra funky rules), and if they were so I'd be more inclined to recommend them.

However, when you're paying 190points BASE (Chenkov + 20 x Conscripts w/ SiTNW, whilst not including the Lord Commisar, nor the two PIS you HAVE to include) you've just dedicated close to 20% of your points allowance for a glorified speedbump.

Outside of casual games where your doing it for the lulz my only recommendation is to avoid them completely. Standard combined PIS will serve you much, much, MUCH better.

L. Wrex

I'm probably going to stick to my regular, 2 blobs, and artillery for the next tourny if I do decide to run guard (I need a few more games under my belt to feel comfertable with em.)

I would actually consider Russes at 1000 points. There won't be very much target saturation for indirect fire to tag much stuff, nor do you really have enough stuff to hide them behind.

At such point levels, the opponent will have fewer tools at their disposal to deal with AV14, and 2 or 3 such targets may well overwhelm them.

I usually run 3 basilisk's due to the fact that I want to keep my army mainly artillery/blobs. And I only have one demolisher.

Then go the other route, and run all blobs.

I like the idea as it sounds like a fun, fluffy way to go for Valhallans.

"Send in the next wave"

(this is from codex as stated) Any unit with this special rule that is removed from play may be brought back into play at the beggining of the controlling player's next turn. The new unit moves onto the board from the player's board edge. THE UNIT (read carefully) ARRIVES WITH AS MANY MODELS AND EXACTLY THE SAME ARMAMENTS AS ITS FULL STREGNTH PREDECESSOR- it is treated as a new, IDENTICAL unit that has just arived from reserve.




IF I AM CORRECT this mean creed, kell, phsyker, priest, gay guy, squirll, commisar..ANYONE that was in the squad before can come back. Its identical to the other one when it started. it doesnt say IC's are excluded or that after they die they cannot come back. Is this a loop hole? take advantage of this?

FAQ'd, ICs are lost. Might be in INAT.