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MilkmanAl wrote:Again, you're assuming that everything in the opposing army is going to be perpendicular to the RP. That just plain isn't going to happen, and it really isn't going to happen if you have Njal and a RP around (assuming you can do that - not sure if that'd be a HQ slot duplication). Hardly anything comes in units of 2, and that's the only unit size worth trying to preserve as you suggest. Everything else probably won't be able to move far enough to pull that maneuver off.

Sigh.

This isn't difficult.

The entire list isn't filled with high priority targets. If it is, you deserve to lose from the start. You prioritize the important stuff, so you can keep it roughly in a line perpendicular to the offending Rune Priest, and then you really don't care much if the Crisis Suit and a Fire Warrior have to make a 5+ save or die -- compared to the Crisis Suit itself.

The power is only good if you can force high-value targets to make the save. Good playing can prevent those high-value targets from being hit more than one per shot; killing an extra ablative wound on some other squad is pretty much inconsequential in the grand scheme of things -- especially if you can force the SW player to expose his RP more to pull it off.

Cruentus wrote:But why remove two of the three steps in attacking? No roll to hit, no roll to wound (which, regardless of S v T, will fail 1 in 6 times), and go straight to an Init test? There are several armies who don't have I as high as 4.

I assume you have a strong dislike of template weapons as well? They bypass the to-hit roll, as well. And you do still have to "hit" with Maw; you have to pass a psychic test, and deal with any anti-psychic abilities the other side has.

I used to play a game [$tar Corp$, by Crunchy Frog] that had a weapon called a Vaporizer. It had a 1” x 36” [Yes a Yard Stick] for a template. It did 15 points of damage. If the 1st model had 1 hit is “Absorbed” one hit, it had 14 hits left and kept going, if the 2nd had 4 hits it did 4 hits and had 10 left and it kept going. It was only game breaking for two reasons. If you fired it you also could not fire it next turn.
1] It removed Terrain Pieces.
2] You could give every one in your army one.
I remember entire squads of 6-10 having these things. This is what happened every time.
Turn-1: The Vaporizer Squad Flies onto the board.
Turn-2: It lands and vaporizes 3-12 Figs and a Vehicle or two.
Turn-3: 1-3 Hand of God [One of the weapons similar to a man portable Earthshaker] would land on the squad and vaporize it.
The MAW will cause the same thing to happen.
Turn-1a: Njal waddles onto the board.
Turn-1b: Choose One
A] The Tau Commander feeds him a Gauss Cannon Round
B] The 4 Devo’s Feed him Las-Cannons
C] The DW lands on him
D] The Geenstealer Charge after him [This will probably be the slows way to get him]
O] Shock Attack Gun
F] Crrreeeeeeed

radiohazard wrote:One of my friends has just come up with an idea. Problem is, I don't no if I should slap him, thank him for a good idea or just walk away nodding politely.

Here goes:

He-Man - Wolf Lord.
Mounted on Thunderwolf, Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Saga of the Bear.

Basically he's given me the idea to create all the main characters from Masters of the Universe as characters from the SW and have the base troops as Eternian Guard with the Orange and Green colour scheme.

I must admit, as a modelling project, it has me intrigued.

He-Man as a wolf lord on battlecat. Man at arms as a Iron Priest, all the other characters as WGBLs???

Lord help me. I hate it when people give me ideas like this.

One of the SW heads on the sprue has been called the He-Man head.

He-Man head? Awesome.

Got a link?

Have we got any info on Canis' true pts cost?

Sorry, but 185 for that beast is waaaaay undercosted, NAY, gamebreaking is the word I'm looking for.

Lets look in detail:

1st - The Wolf Claws. We all know what they do, so I won't say it again. These are magnificent weapons that give us a choice and choice is good.

2nd - His stats. This guy is a monster. He's hitting MEQ on 3s with your choice to re-roll and killing them on 3s again with your choice to re-roll. He's tough too, MEQs need 5s to wound him, but there might not be any left to hit back. He's also got 5 attacks, 6 with additional combat weapon and 7 on a charge. So he can pretty much kill anything he wants to. But the fact that he has a rule (which I've heard is called Saga of the Savage) where he "MAY" have as many attacks as models in base contact is just OTT.

3rd - His unit type and army list changes. He's cavalry!!! Fenrisian Wolves as non scoring troops choices. They are both nuts. The Wolves will screen Canis and the other wolf cav and those wolves can be upgraded to have a 4+ save. Did I mention that they are as good as assault marines in combat and are also cavalry???

All this for a measly 185???

Ok, he has a couple of bad points.

1st he has to get to combat. Stick him in a large unit of Thunderwolves and behind a unit of Fenrisian Cyber Wolves (4+ save) and you are as well protected as an Ork Warboss with Nob Bodyguard behind some Grots.
2nd he doesn't have an invulnerable save. This hurts in combat but against shooting, just use the above method.

Seriously, even if he was 285 points, he brings to the game a huge amount of upgrades and killing power that this codex just doesn't need more of. At 185 pts, it's like buying a Bugatti Veyron for half it's retail value (£500,000) and it being the full £1 million package with no loss of power.
This guy will turn up at GTs a lot because of two reasons - for an IC he is broken and he is severely undercosted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He-Man head? Awesome.

Got a link?

Have we got any info on Canis' true pts cost?

Sorry, but 185 for that beast is waaaaay undercosted, NAY, gamebreaking is the word I'm looking for.

Lets look in detail:

1st - The Wolf Claws. We all know what they do, so I won't say it again. These are magnificent weapons that give us a choice and choice is good.

2nd - His stats. This guy is a monster. He's hitting MEQ on 3s with your choice to re-roll and killing them on 3s again with your choice to re-roll. He's tough too, MEQs need 5s to wound him, but there might not be any left to hit back. He's also got 5 attacks, 6 with additional combat weapon and 7 on a charge. So he can pretty much kill anything he wants to. But the fact that he has a rule (which I've heard is called Saga of the Savage) where he "MAY" have as many attacks as models in base contact is just OTT.

3rd - His unit type and army list changes. He's cavalry!!! Fenrisian Wolves as non scoring troops choices. They are both nuts. The Wolves will screen Canis and the other wolf cav and those wolves can be upgraded to have a 4+ save. Did I mention that they are as good as assault marines in combat and are also cavalry???

All this for a measly 185???

Ok, he has a couple of bad points.

1st he has to get to combat. Stick him in a large unit of Thunderwolves and behind a unit of Fenrisian Cyber Wolves (4+ save) and you are as well protected as an Ork Warboss with Nob Bodyguard behind some Grots.
2nd he doesn't have an invulnerable save. This hurts in combat but against shooting, just use the above method.

Seriously, even if he was 285 points, he brings to the game a huge amount of upgrades and killing power that this codex just doesn't need more of. At 185 pts, it's like buying a Bugatti Veyron for half it's retail value (£500,000) and it being the full £1 million package with no loss of power.
This guy will turn up at GTs a lot because of two reasons - for an IC he is broken and he is severely undercosted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll edit this post when I'm on my desktop. The option to edit rarely appears on my phone.

Canis is definitely 185 points.

radiohazard wrote:He-Man head? Awesome.

Got a link?

Awesome. Looks kinda Conan-ish to me though.

Although I have read through every page in this thread, I (might) have missed the following;

When do you choose which effect the Wolf Claw will have in a given round?

Beginning of the CC phase Steelmage.

Thanks

No problem.

That head really is He-Man. Thanks again for that.

Yeah I saw the codex today and Canis is 185 and is game breaking for the cost.

Wolf Cavalry army is definately going to be a pain to deal with.

Canis.
Wolf Priest.
Rune Priest.
Two squads of Grey Hunters in Rhino.
Large unit of Blood Claws in Crusader.
Tons of Cyber Wolves.
Three units of Thunderwolves.
Two units of Long Fangs with 2 Missile Launchers and 3 Heavy Bolters.


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Oh and a lone wolf (hence known as Mowgli).

This entire argument over the Maw has brought something to mind, so in a way you guys actually made me join Dakka Dakka (thanks).

Anyway as far as I can remember, Wolf Priests can only take 1 psychic power. So that means if they take Maw, they cannot take Stormcaller. I would personally much rather have Stormcaller to give my expensive troops an extra chance to get to the enemy's lines than an attack I may get off once before being blown to bits by my enemy's lascannons. Space Wolves are a primarily assault army, and Stormcaller is a much better choice for them if they want to support their troops and give them a chance to up the enemy good in CQC.

radiohazard wrote:He-Man head? Awesome.

Got a link?

Have we got any info on Canis' true pts cost?

Sorry, but 185 for that beast is waaaaay undercosted, NAY, gamebreaking is the word I'm looking for.

Lets look in detail:

1st - The Wolf Claws. We all know what they do, so I won't say it again. These are magnificent weapons that give us a choice and choice is good.

2nd - His stats. This guy is a monster. He's hitting MEQ on 3s with your choice to re-roll and killing them on 3s again with your choice to re-roll. He's tough too, MEQs need 5s to wound him, but there might not be any left to hit back. He's also got 5 attacks, 6 with additional combat weapon and 7 on a charge. So he can pretty much kill anything he wants to. But the fact that he has a rule (which I've heard is called Saga of the Savage) where he "MAY" have as many attacks as models in base contact is just OTT.

3rd - His unit type and army list changes. He's cavalry!!! Fenrisian Wolves as non scoring troops choices. They are both nuts. The Wolves will screen Canis and the other wolf cav and those wolves can be upgraded to have a 4+ save. Did I mention that they are as good as assault marines in combat and are also cavalry???

If you want to stay away from Canis, put your units in buildings.

EDIT: add-on.
Canis may be a close combat monster, but if I'm not mistaken he does only have two wounds. Yes, he can have wolves as a screen, but they have a 6+ save don't they? So just drop an Ordinance template on them and watch the hounds fall.

Aren't Cyber Wolves something like 18 points...I don't think you will ahve too many in a list

wyomingfox wrote:Aren't Cyber Wolves something like 18 points...I don't think you will ahve too many in a list

Grey hunters used to be 18 (21 with grenades) so I think we will manage

As a long time Wolf player, I refuse to use Maw. I'm generally not a fan of psykers or other "weird" stuff in attack roles in general. I play against Nids fairly often, and it's just unsporting to take out up to two Carnifexes and anything inbetween with one dinky psychic test.

I look forward to using Bjorn though. Dreads as HQ's have always been one of my favorite things about the Wolves, and having an extra survivable dread the cost of a land raider seems good to me. Now if only a new Ragnar Blackmane model was part of the first wave...

Hrm, something that occurred to me today.

Canis looks to be on a 60mm base. What size base are the Thunderwolf Cavalry on?

Most Likely 60mm As well.

Gwar! wrote:Most Likely 60mm As well.

Ack. That's going to make them horribly unwieldy, if true.

Lowinor wrote:Hrm, something that occurred to me today.

Canis looks to be on a 60mm base. What size base are the Thunderwolf Cavalry on?

No models, so no clue. But I'm assuming 60mm, similar to canis.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:This entire argument over the Maw has brought something to mind, so in a way you guys actually made me join Dakka Dakka (thanks).

Anyway as far as I can remember, Wolf Priests can only take 1 psychic power. So that means if they take Maw, they cannot take Stormcaller. I would personally much rather have Stormcaller to give my expensive troops an extra chance to get to the enemy's lines than an attack I may get off once before being blown to bits by my enemy's lascannons. Space Wolves are a primarily assault army, and Stormcaller is a much better choice for them if they want to support their troops and give them a chance to up the enemy good in CQC.

You're wrong they choose two powers. They can also upgrade and use two powers a turn.

Unless you are Njarl, then you just WTFBBQPWNSAUCE everything

I believe Canis has three wounds. I can remember the rest of his stats, but not wounds. Any confirmation would be great.

Ok... Thunderwolves.

These guys have rending and can have SS. Think of them as Terminator Cavalry. Apparently they can have TH/SS too. At 50 pts base these guys are a bargain. I heard they are 0-1 though unless you take Canis who gives you an additional unit.

I'm having a serious thought of making a Space Wolf Cavalry based army. Everything on Thunderwolves, couple of GH in rhino for scoring units, lots of Cyber Wolves and some long fangs.

This sounds really appealing to me.

To head off misinformation:
Cyberwolves are 1 per unit of Fenrisian Wolves and double the cost of the wolf that's to be cyberized.
Thunderwolf Cav are not 0-1, Canis or no.

radiohazard wrote:I believe Canis has three wounds. I can remember the rest of his stats, but not wounds. Any confirmation would be great.

Ok... Thunderwolves.

These guys have rending and can have SS. Think of them as Terminator Cavalry. Apparently they can have TH/SS too. At 50 pts base these guys are a bargain. I heard they are 0-1 though unless you take Canis who gives you an additional unit.

I'm having a serious thought of making a Space Wolf Cavalry based army. Everything on Thunderwolves, couple of GH in rhino for scoring units, lots of Cyber Wolves and some long fangs.

This sounds really appealing to me.

TW cav are fast attack, with 1-5 in a squad, and not 0-1. You can take 15 of them in a normal list. Taking Canis makes them count as troops. So there's your scoring units.

Thunderwolves as scoring units???

That = win.

Got to include GH or BC though. They're too good to miss.

Wait wait. "Count as Troops" or "Scoring Unit"? Big Difference. Counts as Troops means 6 Scoring and 3 Non Scoring Wolf Packs in an army. Scoring unit means 3 Scoring Fast Attack Wolf Pack.

Wrong.


Fenrisian wolves count as Troops if Canis is in the army. TWC DO NOT count as Troops. Unless its listed somewhere other than his section, their section, or the army list, which I doubt.



Clay

The Wolf King:

Fenrisian wolves count as troops in any army that includes Canis Wolfborn.

They don't count as scoring anyway. "Fenrisian Wolves may not claim objectives under any circumstances."