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The same way Blood Crushers have. Large bases is actually a pretty big advantage for slow-ish assault units because templates have very, very limited effect. Hitting 2 bases with a large blast suuuuucks.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
A couple of people have mentioned skyclaws being "worthless" because they can't have a WGPL.

I'm kind of in agreement, the lack of the extra fist and the control of head strong really, really hurts them.

But lets see how they run with an IC to mitigate headstrong. I suggest a Wolf Priest because a) its cheap b ) I can't really picture a Wolf Lord or WGBL with a jump pack, it seems undignified, whereas Wolf Priests are supposed to run with the new pups to train them up and c) preferred enemy synergises nicely with their roll.

So we're looking at about 330pts here (I don't have the new codex on me but I believe 200 for 10 SC with a fist, 100 for the priest and 25-30 for his jump pack) as opposed to the nearly 600pts for the LRC based pack. The JP's fulfill roughly the same role as the LRC, ensuring the Claws get the charge although obviously it is better at that, provides protection from incoming fire and has a ton of guns so it is duble the price.

The problem here is that not many people still use Assault Squads with Chaplains, which are similar, though slightly worse. In 4th Edition, that'd probably be a good choice, but in 5th, Assault Squads and their equivalents have definitely fallen out of fashion, at least in non-Blood Angels armies.

I've just seen the codex, and here's my only real gripe: Wolf scouts can't exchange their CCW for a power weapon... they can only exchange their Bolt Pistol for a power weapon (as written). But they can also exchange their CCW for a Bolter, for free.

So they can have a bolter and a power weapon... but they can't have a bolt pistol and and a power weapon?

That just blows. My Scout squad with 2 BP/PW and 2 Plasma Pistols, Meltagun, and WG with Powerfist have been my favor unit (and often MVP) for almost as long as I've played SW. I can easily give up the Plasma Pistols, but now I have to give up BP/PW? Bollocks.

That seems like a big error, though PW/CCW isn't that bad.

ubermosher wrote:I've just seen the codex, and here's my only real gripe: Wolf scouts can't exchange their CCW for a power weapon... they can only exchange their Bolt Pistol for a power weapon (as written). But they can also exchange their CCW for a Bolter, for free.

So they can have a bolter and a power weapon... but they can't have a bolt pistol and and a power weapon?

That just blows. My Scout squad with 2 BP/PW and 2 Plasma Pistols, Meltagun, and WG with Powerfist have been my favor unit (and often MVP) for almost as long as I've played SW. I can easily give up the Plasma Pistols, but now I have to give up BP/PW? Bollocks.

Fetterkey wrote:That seems like a big error, though PW/CCW isn't that bad.

I'll be suprised if that stays like that. I smell big gaming error there.

Question that occurred to me: What's the deal with Runic Force Weapons, or whatever they're called. I take it they're the Space Wolf bundled equivalent of Psychic Hoods and Force Weapons?

And anti-Daemon weapons at the same time. Don't forget that.

That too, but it's the "negating psychic powers on 4+" that I'm interested in - does that effect have a range? It's pretty much the same as a Psychic Hood given all the Ld10 floating around these days (so ~50/50 winning the roll off). I'd expect it's just psychic powers affecting the Rune Priest and any unit he's joined, rather than being a board-wide effect though. So, details?

@Nurglitch

"Furthermore, whenever an enemy model succeeds on a Psychic test within 24" of the bearer, roll a dice (sic) - on the roll of a 4+ that power is nullified."

So it is basically just a Psychic Hood.

It's actually slightly better, I believe. If I recall correctly, psychic hoods lose ties, and as it's generally LD10 vs. LD10, a straight 4+ is better. That said, the hood may or may not have infinite range instead of 24" range, depending on what Codex you're using.

Just saw some assembled Blood Claws using the new heads. All of them are great.. except one

It's TOO manly

Are there any questions that still remain? I have a codex.

ph34r wrote:Are there any questions that still remain? I have a codex.

Is there a picture of the Terminator Frost Axe in the codex? I'd just like to see it.

Also, what is the exact wording of the headstrong rule for whatever-claws? Also what is the exact wording of Berserk charge?

Can any special character be given terminator armor? Or just Njal (Logan has it standard)?

Is there any rule limiting putting the terminator heavy weapons in other squads? Is there any rule that says I cannot take 10 WG, put 6 in other squads, and leave a 4-man terminator squad with 2 heavy weapons?

Can WG have jump packs? How much (compared to another codex) is a WG w/ bike and a wG w/ jump pack?

Is there a way to attach a WGBL or WG to a Wolf Scout Squad? Do the stealth and outflank saga allow this?

Scottywan82 wrote:

ph34r wrote:Are there any questions that still remain? I have a codex.

Is there any rule limiting putting the terminator heavy weapons in other squads? Is there any rule that says I cannot take 10 WG, put 6 in other squads, and leave a 4-man terminator squad with 2 heavy weapons?

No and No. You can split out WG any way you want.

Can WG have jump packs? How much (compared to another codex) is a WG w/ bike and a wG w/ jump pack?

Yes any WG not in Terminator Armor may have a bike or a jump pack. I'm not giving out points costs. But it seems to be inline with normal SM HQ pricing on that wargear.

Is there a way to attach a WGBL or WG to a Wolf Scout Squad? Do the stealth and outflank saga allow this?

A WG can join a scout squad, no problem no restrictions. If you use the saga of the Hunter on a WGBL you do gain outflank, however there is some debate as to wither the unit looses Behind Enemy Lines. You might just have to go with the normal outflank rules.

Scottywan82 wrote:

ph34r wrote:Are there any questions that still remain? I have a codex.

Is there a picture of the Terminator Frost Axe in the codex? I'd just like to see it.

Also, what is the exact wording of the headstrong rule for whatever-claws? Also what is the exact wording of Berserk charge?

Can any special character be given terminator armor? Or just Njal (Logan has it standard)?

Is there any rule limiting putting the terminator heavy weapons in other squads? Is there any rule that says I cannot take 10 WG, put 6 in other squads, and leave a 4-man terminator squad with 2 heavy weapons?

Can WG have jump packs? How much (compared to another codex) is a WG w/ bike and a wG w/ jump pack?

Is there a way to attach a WGBL or WG to a Wolf Scout Squad? Do the stealth and outflank saga allow this?

Nope
It's a long paragraph to quote, but the important part is if a pack of blood claws is within 6" of an enemy model at the start of the shooting phase it will forgo its shooting phase altogether. If a WG or IC accompanies them the rule does not apply.
Logan has it. Njal can take it. The WG upgrade character has it.
If you have 6 squads to put 1 WG into each you can have 4 terminators with 2 heavy weapons.
Jump pack is 25 and bike is 35. Ouch.
WG can join wolf scouts. I don't know exactly how the rules go as WG don't have the behind enemy lines rule. Characters can take the stealth+outflank saga but it still won't give them behind enemy lines, unless the core rule book says that joining ICs gain such rules.

ph34r wrote:WG can join wolf scouts. I don't know exactly how the rules go as WG don't have the behind enemy lines rule. Characters can take the stealth+outflank saga but it still won't give them behind enemy lines, unless the core rule book says that joining ICs gain such rules.

My take is that in the first case, attached WG are as much a part of the squad as a vet sergeant is to a tactical squad, and as such all of the squad's special rules apply to the WG as well. All relevant restrictions for USR's in the BGB apply only to IC's... which an attached WG is not.

In the second case, my take is that any IC with outflank can take advantage of Behind Enemy Lines, because the wording of the rule states, "If a Wolf Scout unit makes use of its ability to outflank... [on a 3+ it may enter from any table edge]". As an attached IC is part of the unit and the IC has the ability to outflank, then it should be able to take advantage of the rule when it "makes use of its ability to outflank".

Does anyone have Termi Sprue pics? Please post. Thanks in advance. Oh and fellow Americans Full Moon on OCT.3rd

OOMBATOO O`MALLY wrote:Does anyone have Termi Sprue pics? Please post. Thanks in advance. Oh and fellow Americans Full Moon on OCT.3rd

Oh, just noticed that. Very slick.

Sorry for the lack of updates to the OP, I've just moved back to university and I haven't got the Internet set up yet. Not that I'm bothered, it's so slow you feel older after opening IE onto google.

Thank Mork for Iphones.

I'll make up for it later this week as my new FLGS had a very nice surprise for me. A shiny new SW codex - ON SALE!!!

£13.50 and two weeks before release.

As soon as I get the Internet up I'll update.
There is a fair amount I have missed and loads of stuff to add to the OP.

ph34r wrote:WG can join wolf scouts. I don't know exactly how the rules go as WG don't have the behind enemy lines rule. Characters can take the stealth+outflank saga but it still won't give them behind enemy lines, unless the core rule book says that joining ICs gain such rules.

One thing to remember is the WG are not IC's, but are merely allowed to be attached to other units. The WG do not have the "IC" rule listed, and nothing that I can remember from the codex says to treat them as an IC while attached to another unit. It seems more likely that they should be treated as a squad upgrade character.

That being said, I don't believe there are any rules that cover what happens when a non-IC character joins or is assigned to a unit from a separate slot on the FOC. The rules in the BRB that address skills/abilities that are lost/not lost when an IC joins a unit are not applicable in this case, as the WG are not ICs.

This is a gray area that I don't believe the rules adequately address, though I am open to being proven wrong.

I concur with Saldiven and ubermosher

Yeah, but do non-ICs that are part of the squad get special rules that the models that you buy for that squad come with?

Hmmm...good point. I really don't see WG getting Berserk charge for joining a BC squad.

ph34r wrote:Yeah, but do non-ICs that are part of the squad get special rules that the models that you buy for that squad come with?

Well, pretty much the only non-IC's that are part of a squad are sergeant types, which do get all the rules that are part of the unit. The problem is that those upgrade character are bought as part of the unit from the unit's inception. I mean, other than IC's, there are not rules for characters to join a unit after the unit's original creation.

WG, however, are from a totally different Codex entry. While it makes a certain kind of sense that they should retain any special rules for the unit which they accompany, this is not stated as such anywhere that I can remember seeing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wyomingfox wrote:Hmmm...good point. I really don't see WG getting Berserk charge for joining a BC squad.

Another good point. This is definitely something that GW needs to clarify one way or the other. While it appears that the "intent" was for WG to act in the place of vet sergeants which are not an option in C:SW as they are in C:SM, it's something that has the potential to cause trouble with differing interpretations.

Interesting to note that the special rules Berserk Charge for Blood Claws specifically state that this rule does not apply to other models that have joined the pack. Not characters... other models. It sets precedence that restrictions for attached WG, i.e. "other models", are explicitly stated. So I don't see why any other special rule (like Stealth for Wolf Scouts) wouldn't apply to attached WG.

Also as an aside, I like that the rule also specifically says Berserk Charge does not apply to Counter-Attack moves... something that was a bone of contention with the last codex.

I must admit after owning my own codex and Reading it through thoroughly, it's made me want to play Orks even more.
That's just because of a lot of people making lists and them having huge holes where I can think "hmmm I can take this unit from this army and totally spank his carefully built sw elite force".

Seriously, sw are gonna have trouble fielding more than 40 models at best. There are so many kool choices that sw players will take and that will leave them horribly short on points to take stuff that should be staples in a sw army.

The key units I'm talking about are wolf guard, my favourites the thunderwolves and vehicles like land raiders.
You take any of those in this army and you'll fall short dome where else.

Before I said this army was broken, but after closly examining the codex, these guys have a major major flaw: lack of numbers and too many elite infantry.

With no units to soak up firepower except the wolves, sw are not going to see the top end of a tourney results board.

I've said before, and I'll say again. There's a way to field a pretty low-model count army. And there's a way to field a lot of guys.

GH - 10-men, Rhino - 200 points roughly
Long Fangs - 6 men, 5x HB or 5x ML - 115 to 140
Wolf Scouts - 5 men, meltagun, 2x pp - 120-ish

So, for 1000 points, that's 50 GHs. Another 500 points gets you some combo of 4 LF and Scout units, say 2 of each. That's another 22 models. That's 1500 points and 72 models. that's more marines than most codex lists. Throw in some HQs, and you're at 1750pts. I'm not sure it's a great list, but it's nearly 75 marines, 80 models at 1750 points. That's a lot of MEQs.

After reading the Codex, I agree with radiohazard. Outside that one stupid psy power and a few characters, the puppies are rather sub-par. I tried converting my vanilla Marine lists to SW and they all came out worse.