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H.B.M.C. wrote:

Davor wrote:They do, but winged warriors are a 5+. Non of the armour values can be changed. We can't buy extra amrour any more.

Arby strikes again!!!

I'm guessing Winged Warriors are more expensive than regular Warriors because they didn't realise that a good round of Bolter fire from a squad of Marines will annihilate them.

Rapid firing: 20 bolter shots. 14 hits (rounding up). 7 wounds. Two dead and a wound. If I rounded in the tyranids favor there would be one less wound. Tell, me how is a good round of bolter fire annihilating a winged unit? They manage to kill only a single regular warrior and two winged ones. You know what that same round does to terminators? 20 shots, 14 hits, 7 wounds, one failed save. A terminator is 40 points base, a warrior is 30 points base. They stand up better to small arms than terminators (which are specifically designed to do that).

I don't understand your point. They are vulnerable to high strength weaponry like missile launchers and battle canons. They are NOT vulnerable to small arms fire. The winged unit suffers marginally more, but for that you get a unit that is tactically very difficult ever manage to rapid fire at at all and can decimate that same marine squad once it enters combat. It will also do so typically turn two. It's hardly a bad unit for 35 points per model.

It's also not arbitrary, the previous edition had the same carapace limitations with wings.

ShumaGorath wrote:... the previous edition had the same arbitrary carapace limitations with wings.

Fixed the quote.

Yes, they are more vulnerable to larger weapons like Krak Missiles and the like, but 30+ points for a 5+ save? GW overcost things with multiple wounds and tend to ignore that wounds alone do not maketh tough units. Toughness and Armour Save play a big role, and T4/Sv5+ isn't helping anyone.

Fixed the quote.

Oh, I'm sorry, here I thought the extended carapace was bulky and heavy, something thats bad for flying. Like it says in the book. Guess a somewhat flavorful restriction is totally arbitrary when its been around for years.

Yes, they are more vulnerable to larger weapons like Krak Missiles and the like, but 30+ points for a 5+ save? GW overcost things with multiple wounds and tend to ignore that wounds alone do not maketh tough units. Toughness and Armour Save play a big role, and T4/Sv5+ isn't helping anyone.

They are also vastly less vulnerable to plasma weapons, and any incarnation of an ap2 blast or flamer template below str 8 (mawlacs, plasma cannons, tzeentch flamers, any and all power weapons). They have different uses. With boneswords they would demolish virtually every space marine unit they could touch (if they got the assault they would statistically kill an assault terminator squad in 2 rounds, hell they kick bloodcrushers too). I really don't see how they are bad. Glass canons yes, but they aren't there to get shot at and there are plenty of methods for delivering them safely. A lot of what you pay for isn't resilience, it's damage output.

Well I ordered my Plasma Hatcher toy set's today that come with an excellent alien looking egg that is 7" tall. When it's painted it looks perfect. And it was only $7 each. I'm super excited and i think i've got my start on the army i'm going to be tweaking

All the talk in this thread about Spore Pods when there doesn't appear to be an official GW kit for them at the moment is leaving me with the distinct feeling we're going to be seeing an awful lot of "smeg" (with apologies to Red Dwarf) on game tables for years to come. Remember seeing trash, sometimes literally trash, used as Space Marine Drop Pods on game tables for years until September of last year when we finally got an official and affordable Drop Pod model? Now we can look forward to that same level of "visual enhancement" in Tyranid armies as well for months or years till there's a proper model for Spore Pods. Those of us who love the visual aspect of the hobby are in for a real treat again with drink bottles and other garbage adorning game tables at the local store. Joy.

It could be a possible summer release. In the meantime suck it up.

I plan to get some of those plasma egg toy things. They look like good, cheap alternatives to making my own (or attempting to).

sirisaacnuton wrote:I had a question about the Acid Blood ability. In the summary it doesn't list that it only affects CC wounds or has any kind of range. Does Acid Blood really have an effect on any model that wounded the creature? Can his acidic blood squirt 72" across the table to wound a Broadside?

It seemed like the kind of ability that should only affect CC wounds (logically anyway, thinking about the acidic blood in Aliens), but the part about glancing vehicles got me wondering. Can anyone with access to an actual book (and a proficiency in German) confirm that one way or another?

Thanks much!

It is CC only. The glancing hit on a 4+ against vehicles is for Walkers.

Fateweaver wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:Is there any word on what options Tyrant Guard are going to be able to take?

Come with Rending Claws/Scytals. May replace Scytalons with a Lashwhip and/or Bonesword.

They can't take both a Lashwhip and a Bonesword.

Lighter armor on winged `Nids is anything BUT arbitrary. Not only was it around in the current version of the codex, but the same kind of theme fills the entire game line. Scount Sentinals, Terminators, Land Speeder vs Land Raider, ect. You get to be extra fast, or you get to be extra durable, rarely do you get to be both.

Besides, I thought this was the 5th ed, the land of everyone gets cover saves, where ap3 is supposed to be all but useless?

Chapterhouse wrote:The MKI Rhino kit is done (just not on the site yet). The Predator Armored kit will be in this week I hope. Ill have them all on the website this weekend.

Irony: Our genestealer alternative head bits, we have been showing and working on for 2 months now, GWs Ymargl Stealers look almost the same. We have proof we were working on these before anyone had photos of the GW ones in the codex . Lucky us (heh, should we send a C&D to GW?).

These should be ready in 2-3 weeks.

I now know what I'm going to use to make these special genestealers! Before, I was just going to use the heads for my B-lord's bodyguard.

Aduro wrote:Lighter armor on winged `Nids is anything BUT arbitrary. Not only was it around in the current version of the codex, but the same kind of theme fills the entire game line. Scount Sentinals, Terminators, Land Speeder vs Land Raider, ect. You get to be extra fast, or you get to be extra durable, rarely do you get to be both.

Besides, I thought this was the 5th ed, the land of everyone gets cover saves, where ap3 is supposed to be all but useless?

no kidding, fly them in with a squad of the new cheap gargoyles. I didn't like the loss of EW, but they are better against small arms fire which is what everyone was complaining about. On a related note, carnifexes and hive tyrants were never supposed to be cheap and toned down, but the big nasties of the army. I'm just finally happy to have lots of good solid choices so I can make a variety of army lists like never before.

Hulksmash wrote:Well I ordered my Plasma Hatcher toy set's today that come with an excellent alien looking egg that is 7" tall. When it's painted it looks perfect. And it was only $7 each. I'm super excited and i think i've got my start on the army i'm going to be tweaking

Yeah, they look like a really good find.

Look forward to Chapterhouse's Spore pods.

Just had the joy of having a 9 man squad of Tyranid Warriors deepstrike with wings next to a Lictor.

GG.


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For Clarification we were just messing around with vassal. There are no point values.

Also its impossible to deal with 2 tetrafexes and its horribly broken.


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I was playing Pedro Kantor Sternguard Spam we figured hellfire would be pretty devastating.

Then we tried orks.

Um unless you are taking 3 squads of lootas to deal wth Monstrous creatures the orks get pretty boned by boneswords( see what I did there).

Also its impossible to deal with 2 tetrafexes and its horribly broken.

Whats a tetrafex?

Um unless you are taking 3 squads of lootas to deal wth Monstrous creatures the orks get pretty boned by boneswords( see what I did there).

Why would the bone swords do much to orks? With the exception of boss squads or squad nobz nothing has a good armor save or multiple wounds.

Why did the content get deleted?

Happygrunt wrote:Why did the content get deleted?

So that people would not write accurate reviews like this -
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=44175&postcount=397

So that people would not write accurate reviews like this -

If by accurate you mean inaccurate, whiny, and hyperbolic.

Tyrant Guard - No appreciable change, but more expensive, and with the increased Tyrant cost even more "mandatory" for walkers. Anything with "Tyrant" in the name for HQ got a raw deal with this dex.

No appreciable changes except the improvement of it's base weapons, options, and rules. I guess something doesn't change unless one of it's base stats change.

Trygon / Trygon Prime - Trygon Prime is overcosted for what you get IMO. Trygon is cool but no assault out of deep strike blows. The tunnels are ultra gay. Like, horrible bad useless crap. The odds and fact that you can't do it the turn he arrives and the fact that you can't assault out of them, and the fact that an enemy can just go DRIVE ON TOP OF THEM to shut them down, and many other things makes them look like a rule that was written to be cool but failed on the practicality front. Dumb da dumb dumb dummmmmb.

I think the Fex is actually probably better than the Trygon, just b/c he's better at cracking open vehicles, and can fight all the things you'd ever want the Trygon to fight in combat. The only monster in the book that's really built to tackle things like Terminators and Nob Bikers and such is the Swarmlord, so ... yeah ... it's not like you'd buy the Trygon to beat up people in combat ... everything else does it for less. You wouldn't buy him over a drop pod fex to beat up vehicles in combat (or even a non drop pod fex), b/c the fex beats up vehicles in combat better. Basically, the Trygon is feggin' bad, but that doesn't mean he won't get good use against opponents who really aren't well built to handle OMG 6w monsters.

Mawloc - Cheap Trygon with weaker rules, and as far as I can tell is killed by DS'ing into impassable. I suppose he'd be cool for popping infantry squads in the open, including marines/termies, who aren't in their vehicles ... but ... I'm trying to make this clear ... you won't have trouble with any of those anyway. Your only "need" will be to dedicate points and slots to opening transports. You don't need units that kill infantry in the open as their paid-for "specials" like the Mawloc's.

Another gem. "The trygon isn't built against terminators the only good unit for that is the swarmlord and its bad". "The Mawlac isn't built for killing anything your army can't already kill it's bad". And here I thought it killed terminators.

Tervigon, which is "meant" to be combined Fex + Trygon, is a great unit that you'll see lots of and in GW's perfect world requires a $100 investment to build. Smart people will use spare gaunt pieces and green stuff, and a Fex.

Pyrovore - Cool new model, horrifically bad stats. Biovore stats also being bad means most players will go "um, why would I buy that? Monsters are better AND cooler!"

Venomthrope - Cool new model, horrifically bad due to extreme fragility. Again, why the new model GW but crap stats?

Ahh the cognitive dissonance of the whiny GW conspiracy theorist.

Sorry I meant Terranofex(?) I dunno I wasnt playing tyranids just going through the motions of fighting them with pedro.

Tyranofex.

Yeah he kept giving them feel no pain. That was not fun.

Hollismason wrote:Yeah he kept giving them feel no pain. That was not fun.

Ouch, yeah at that point I would just gun down the tervigon and try and ignore the bigger bug. Does feel no pain work on ap 1 or 2 weapons? Those are weapons against which "no armor save may ever be taken".

Shuma: AP 1-2 ignores FNP mate.
So its a case of loading out on it and going to town against it.

Failing that, power weps and fists will do well, since it only has 3 attacks lol.

JD21290 wrote:Shuma: AP 1-2 ignores FNP mate.
So its a case of loading out on it and going to town against it.

Failing that, power weps and fists will do well, since it only has 3 attacks lol.

Thats what I thought. The FNP tervigons are still going to be a bit of an issue aside from my drop squads though, and I'll have to figure out a way to bring them down quick and early if I want to maintain my current army composition. Alpha striking two to three of them on the first turn could certainly be one way, at nearly 200 points a piece a 5 tervy army is going to be thin on other units.

Failing that, power weps and fists will do well, since it only has 3 attacks lol.

Actually if it has regeneration it will statistically beat a tac squad with a fist (as the number of wounds dealt vs wounds regenerated reach parity at 4 wounds, and the tervigon/tyrranofex begins to regenerate more at 5). Though that fight will also take all week, and a tyrranofex with regen and the capsule canon is just shy of 300 points while the tervy is just shy of 230 with regen.

Yeah it does, I had Sternguard tho :(. Overall just kind of messing around with the army and playing against the rumours and some bits and pieces its pretty tough. This was done on vassal.

The Tervigon is pretty hilariously LOL GG to play against.

We played 2k I used a basic Vulkan / Pedro list a few times and lost all 3 games. Then played a Ork game which I lost.

Out of all the units Please to be killing the Tervigons IMMEDIATELY. ASAP. We used the Drop Pods from marines as spores and some miscelaneous stuff for the new creatures.

Being Able to make the Tervigon a troops choice was probably the single worst idea out of the entire codex. 2 units of gaunts w/ nothing really and 2 of these is horribly efficient.

Meatball is back as well. Gaunts Screen Warriors Warriors Screen Tervigon Tervigons. Meanwhile 60 Gargoyles fly forward with feel no pain.

Yeah it does, I had Sternguard tho :(. Overall just kind of messing around with the army and playing against the rumours and some bits and pieces its pretty tough. This was done on vassal.

I run my sterns with 3 combi meltas, 2 meltas, and 5 combi plasmas. 5 melta shots, 3.33 hits, 2.79 wounds. 10 plasma shots, 6.66 hits, 3.33 wounds. All together thats 6.12 wounds that ignore fnp and armor saves, thus burning through regen. Then again it's also a 340 point squad killing at most a 300 point tyrranofex. The squad was originally meant to deal with 5 man assault termy squads in land raiders first turn, combat squad the melta and kill the raider, then fire 10 plasma into the terms for 2-3 dead (making the squads points back and disabling a hammer).

The Tervigon is pretty hilariously LOL GG to play against.

The tervy worries me more than the fex, it's comparably durable (if it gives itself FNP) and is much cheaper and easier to utilize en masse.

Out of all the units Please to be killing the Tervigons IMMEDIATELY. ASAP. We used the Drop Pods from marines as spores and some miscelaneous stuff for the new creatures.

Agreed, the tervigons are giant point sinks which generate their reason for being purchased as the game progresses. The more that can be killed early the less effective an investment they get to be.

Shuma: Start taking a vindi with you
May not seem like much, but those pie plates will not only eat away its wounds, but should be enough to kill anything it spawns aswell.

Failing that, a dev squad with 4 plasma cannons should do the job.




Im having to change my BA's alot to work against new nids.
The heavy combat style of my army wont work since ill be outnumbered that badly, even with alot of MC's lol.

Im now thinking:

Troop: 795

10 tac marines: plasma gun, heavy bolter - 215
Razorback (heavy bolters): 50
10 tac marines: plasma gun, heavy bolter - 215
Razorback (heavy bolters): 50
10 tac marines: plasma gun, heavy bolter - 215
Razorback (heavy bolters): 50

Heavy: 605

5 Devs: 4 plasma cannons - 215
5 Devs: 4 plasma cannons - 215
5 Devs: 4 heavy bolters - 175

1,400 base for an army.
Should contain enough firepower to drop whats needed.

27 bolters.
8 plasma cannons.
3 plasma guns.
10 heavy bolters.

Might start to build on that, want to see how it goes though.

I'm thinking deathleaper looks fun to play.

Seems a fair beast stat wise, lots of fun and useful special rules and his ability to lower any ONE characters LD by -d3 should be great at shutting down psykers, especially combined with all the things that get SotW.

The number one thing I found out playing it was that it makes you have some incredibly difficult fire choices simply because of the over abundance of threats and how quickly they show up especially the Trigons.

The first turn pretty much makes the game. I don't really even know what you would do against a Deep Striking Army that the majority of it shows up on Turn 2 in Pods and through special deployment.

Oh and Tyrants having the "CREEEEEEEEEEEED" ability is horrible to face as well.


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The first two turns of the game I mean, every game turn 3 80 percent of my army was in CC.


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I dont see how some armies will actually beat Tyranids period, especially Necrons and Tau. I really cannot see any build of necrons having a wing and prayer against a Tyranid army. Their big guys die to a 180 point squad of Gargoyles.

I dont see how some armies will actually beat Tyranids period, especially Necrons and Tau. I really cannot see any build of necrons having a wing and prayer against a Tyranid army. Their big guys die to a 180 point squad of Gargoyles.

Agreed. Five tervigon builds are going to be the new d-bag maneuver in this game. That said there wasn't much tau or crons could do against nob bikers or assault termy squarms either.

Flat out if you actually look at the codex it seems they actualyl sat down and said " Well what are some of the dominant builds? " lets give them specific defenses against those.

Thunderwolves = Boneswords , Gargoyles w/ Poison, Termagaunts w/ POISON, hell everything has poison.

Psykers = Deathleaper , Shadow of the warp, Deep Striking Shadow of the Warp multiple ways.

Nobs = Lots and lots of instadeath ST8 or higher stuff

Mechanized = Tyrannt Guard etc..

Horde = Big guys can get toxic miasma / yo ucan out horde horde

AV14 = Monstrous Creatures w/ rerolls / 2 Creature w/ ST10 shots

Tau = Umm yeah I dont think this has to be said really. I mean they now have drop pods.

Necrons = GG next map Gargoyles kill everything in the entire army except a monolith. Sure they wound on a six with their ST5 weapons which wound T6 on a 5 or 6 any way. Um Deciever and that other guy can die to a 20 man 120 point Termagaunt squad.

Demons = Yes, demons. Fateweaver does do gak with a LD 7 and 3d6 psychic test. Oh and all your awesome Bloodcrushers get swarmed with creatures with poison. Poison is even more fun especially with the abundance of furious charge giving the small guys st 4 and a majority of demons having toughness 4 and a low armour save.

Eldar = Hurray Tyranids now have incredibly efficient AV12 antiarmour. Drop Pods , Poison on well everything. Oh and Eldrad can have -3 to his leadership. The big thing is everything having poison. It makes tyranids even more effective in hand to hand versus eldar now. If your str is the same as their toughness you get a reroll. Everything in the army can basically get a reroll to wound in hand to hand versus eldar. Hurrrrray.

Space Marines Vulcan = My squads can get Feel No Pain. Hurray H. Flamer Hurray. Oh and now it has AV12 effective anti tank. Hope you mix in some plasma somewhere.

Its really like they sat down and said " Lets give the tyranids the ability to fight most builds out there we see".

The only army I see that is actualyl really good against Tyranids is space wolves its like the two guys were working together and putting in counters versus counters against each other. Its pretty evenly matched with Imperial Guard as well.

Also, anyone else think its funny that the Tervigon is 100 dollars to build. It's like they did it on purpose.