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Also, anyone else think its funny that the Tervigon is 100 dollars to build. It's like they did it on purpose.

Meh, any cross monstrous creature conversion was going to come in at a high price. Funny how none of the new models except the hive guard are particularly stellar in the codex.

Demons = Yes, demons. Fateweaver does do gak with a LD 7 and 3d6 psychic test. Oh and all your awesome Bloodcrushers get swarmed with creatures with poison. Poison is even more fun especially with the abundance of furious charge giving the small guys st 4 and a majority of demons having toughness 4 and a low armour save.

Inv saves all round, a few units have normal armour (3+, 4+) aswell.
Letters are high WS, decent initiative and ignore saves.
They have FC and the crushers are higher strength.
Even units of 3 crushers will walk through MC's.

Skull taker causes instant death on a 4+, with an insane WS and strength.

All daemons have eternal warrior, so instant death means nothing to them.


All in all, daemons still get thier inv. saves, no matter what hits them from the nids.

Dont forget that while units like fiends and daemonettes have a low T, they do have an insane initiative and number of rending attacks.
Meaning that theres a good chances 15 daemonettes will slice through most basic nid units without a problem.
Rending also means that armour means nothing aswell.

Daemons wont have it easy, but IMO, they are pretty well kitted out for nid hunting.

Also, even units like horrors aint bad.
S4, AP4 assault 3 comming from each horror.
A unit of 15 will be throwing out enough shots to drop broods quickly.
Flamers will do just as well, but it means getting close, they will also do a nice job on MC's and other armoured creatures.

Daemonettes will make a mockery of 'stealers. At least now though stealers are better for less points so it's NOT such an unfair comparison anymore (IMO Daemonettes were better than stealers in 4th ed and a lot cheaper).

I still see Daemons being a hard army for 'nids to deal with. A pack of 10 Letters with Skulltaker will make a mockery of a Tyrant and 3 Tyrant guard for less points.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new 'Nid codex but it's hardly going to be overpowering, not to mention 5 Tervigons built using a Carnifex/Trygon kit are going to be something only the hardcore will do as that is over $500 in kit just for 5 models.

It's like buying FW but with the ease of plastics.

I can't really see anyone making a $100 Tervigon, not when the picture of them looks like it's only a Carnifex with a pot belly. Granted it was a really poor quality picture, but still...

So, what are peoples thoughts of making the tervy?
By this i mean kits and converting wise

JD21290 wrote:So, what are peoples thoughts of making the tervy?
By this i mean kits and converting wise

It looks like a carnifex with a big belly , im not sure why trygon is required in the conversion o.o

I'm wondering what folks are going to use to build Harpies, myself. T5/4+ Sv? Or did I miss that discussion somewhere in the middle of the Hollismason/Shuma lovefest?

Maybe its someones own interpretation?

I think i might go for an alien queen idea, stolen straight from the film with a fex and some GS.


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Harpy:

Going with a fex body, 2 front arms with barbed's / venoms. (single handed)
Talons behind that.
New style dragon wings.
Head will have to be a fex, but with GS re-sculpt to make it more like the FW big bugs. (armoured top section rather than top of head)

I'm thinking Trygon myself, messing with the tail and head to make it more horizontal, maybe using one of the MANY extra `Fex heads people have sitting around. As I am currently not planning on using a Trygon it should stand out well.

I'm also pondering what someone mentioned in another thread. That is, using my old Armor Cast Malifacter and/or Haruspex. You might have to ask what they Are, but you know what they Arn't.

I wanted to pick them up myself but if you look at the old Tyranid warriors from 2nd edition come with Boneswords etc..

Actually whats funny is with some greenstuff and some minor working on it the very old screamer killer carnifex actually looks very much like a Tervigon start.

So yeah look ye to 2nd edition models for tyranids especially the termagants for devourers.

edit:

I think Daemons( specifically the fateweaver build) will have a difficult time dealing with the new tyranids just like they have difficulty dealing with mass horde armies. Only this time you have mass horde armies that reroll wounds / reroll hits / have feel no pain. Lots of template weapons now as well add in tyranids got a boost in shots with Devourers Drop Pods , the list goes on and on.

Also, all of the tyranid weapons are assault which means they get to fire and assault that's pretty brutal.

Please show me in the Daemon Codex a way to shoot kill a Tyranofex. There's not. You cannot shoot kill this thing nor can you shoot kill a lot of the creatures which means you have to CC kill which means you have to deal with the little niggling guys all around it.



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I wanted to pick them up myself but if you look at the old Tyranid warriors from 2nd edition come with Boneswords etc..

Actually whats funny is with some greenstuff and some minor working on it the very old screamer killer carnifex actually looks very much like a Tervigon start.

So yeah look ye to 2nd edition models for tyranids especially the termagants for devourers.

edit:

I think Daemons( specifically the fateweaver build) will have a difficult time dealing with the new tyranids just like they have difficulty dealing with mass horde armies. Only this time you have mass horde armies that reroll wounds / reroll hits / have feel no pain. Lots of template weapons now as well add in tyranids got a boost in shots with Devourers Drop Pods , the list goes on and on.

Also, all of the tyranid weapons are assault which means they get to fire and assault that's pretty brutal.

Please show me in the Daemon Codex a way to shoot kill a Tyranofex. There's not. You cannot shoot kill this thing nor can you shoot kill a lot of the creatures which means you have to CC kill which means you have to deal with the little niggling guys all around it.

Hollis: Assault weps dont mean alot mate if you dont have the initiative to strike 1st aswell
It tends to blunt that idea pretty badly.

also, ive found both slaanesh and khornate daemons find anti-horde easy in CC.
Horrors sit back and shoot them to death with a large amount of shots.

things like DP's have no problems, since they ignore armour, have a high enough Str to easily hurt all MC's, and still get a save against them.

also, soulgrinders can sit back and template broods to death.

Deployment also favours daemons, since every unit comes in via DS.
Meaning the nid player has to set up in a defensive formation.
In which case you drop at the bottleneck and work through units.
Only so many nids will fit into a few combats. (something that messes up horde lists)

Kairos is junk against nids
He will fail worse than jacko's plastic surgeon.

I think its worth taking a thirster instead for raw power.
Or kugath for the pie plate and insane wounds.

If the nids go all out on getting re-rolls, then maybe even skarbrand has a use.
Since you can only re-roll once per dice, it will benefit daemons more than nids (who allready have re-rolls)


the tyranofex: Anything can be shot to death.
also, why would you have little critters around him? (thinking of a tervigon?)
simply use grinders, horrors, ku'gath or flamers to clear out critters and let basic daemons kill it.

Or, you could throw skulltaker and 15 letters at him, and watch the letters and skulltaker strike 1st, mop up the little 'uns, and ID the fex.

LoC could one shot it (LoC and Fateweaver can ID stuff), unlikely but it could be turned into a Spawn (on a roll of a "6" vs it's toughness it dies outright).

4 Heralds of Tzeentch could potentially blast 4 wounds off it every turn. It gets regen but it couldn't regen them fast enough.

I will have to go by others experiences vs Daemons as I, being the sole non-imperial player in my group also plays Daemons and giving the reigns over to one of the others in my group wouldn't be a fair representation to the matchup as handing an army to someone who's never played with them before is going to have skewed results (unless that person gets lucky enough to win which would just be a fluke).

ShumaGorath wrote:

Failing that, power weps and fists will do well, since it only has 3 attacks lol.

Actually if it has regeneration it will statistically beat a tac squad with a fist (as the number of wounds dealt vs wounds regenerated reach parity at 4 wounds, and the tervigon/tyrranofex begins to regenerate more at 5). Though that fight will also take all week, and a tyrranofex with regen and the capsule canon is just shy of 300 points while the tervy is just shy of 230 with regen.

Your math doesn't fly. At 4 wounds, you only get 4/6th of a wound back on average, while 2 powerfist attacks do 1.1 wounds each assault phase. And Regen only works on the Tyranid player's turn, so that's 2.2 wounds versus the 0.6 regenned. It would probably croak somewhere around the 3rd turn, even shorter if they managed to wound it with shooting before they assaulted.

Eh just my opinion. Anyway back to conversion.

Take the Old Screamer killer and some green stuff ; get rid of them legs , Take a small set of scythe talons for legs, use the top two scything talons and angle down so he is standing on 4 scything talons with a big belly.

Instant Tervagon and pretty much no cost.


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Eh just my opinion. Anyway back to conversion.

Take the Old Screamer killer and some green stuff ; get rid of them legs , Take a small set of scythe talons for legs, use the top two scything talons and angle down so he is standing on 4 scything talons with a big belly.

Instant Tervagon and pretty much no cost.

Old epic Heirophant, any use?

Its hard to tell what are its size and dimensions ? Compared to other tyranid models.

Its pretty big
I need to either find some more pics, or dig my 3 out i have.

Ill grab more pics if i can find them, but even if it is a little small, some parts may help

Fateweaver wrote:A pack of 10 Letters with Skulltaker will make a mockery of a Tyrant and 3 Tyrant guard for less points.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. (I'll use actual dicerolls to calculate all of this). Let's say I have this:

Hive Tyrant:
- Mental Scream
- Warp Scream
- Unspeakable Horror
- Ancient Enemy
- Adrenal Glands
- 2x Scything Talons

Tyrant Guard (x3)
- Lashwhips

Okay now we'll put him up against Skulltaker and 10 Letters.

Worst case scenario (Skulltaker Assaults)
Skulltaker charges (St5 and I6) and Letters are St5, I5.
First he has to pass Ld Check to assault, assuming he gets past that, he and his letters are now at I1 because of the Lashwhips. HT attacks Skulltaker. HT hits on a 3. All 4 hit (rerolls hits from 2 Scytals). Wound on a two, all wound. 4 Saves (5+), he fails 2 and dies. Now it's the Guard's turn. 6 attacks (hitting on 4's). 4 hit (after rerolls from Prefered Enemy granted by HT's Ancient Enemy). Three wound (2's to wound). Three fail and die. Letter's turn. 21 attacks (at Tyrant, hitting on 4's). 11 hit. Wounding on a 5. Three wound. Tyrant has one wound left. Letter's lose combat by two, one dies.

Final score:
Nids
HT w/ W1, Guard unscathed.
Daemons
Skulltaker dead, 4 Letters Killed.

Best case scenario (HT Assaults)
First, if they were planning to assault, it is more than likely they would use Warp Scream to reduce the WS of Skulltaker and Company (ST = WS6, Letters = WS4). Now, HT assaults, and is now at St7 I7. Skulltaker and company at I1 from Lashwhips. HT attacks Skulltaker with 5 attacks (hits on 3's). All hit (After rerolls). All wound (wound on 2's). Skull fails three saves and (once again) dies before he could do anything. Now it's the Guard's turn. 9 attacks this time, hitting on 3's. 8 hit (after PE rerolls). 7 wound (wound on 2's). 5 Bloodletters die after saves. Bloodletter's turn. 10 attacks on HT, hitting on 4's. 5 hit. 2 wound (wounding on 6's). Tyrant has two wounds left. Bloodletters lose by 5. All but one die after saves from Fearless.

Final score:
Nids
HT w/ W2, Guard unscathed.
Daemons
Skulltaker dead, 9 Letters Killed.


I will admit, on average, that on the first scenario (with Skull charging), the HT is probably going to go down (however, I was rolling actual dice and those were the results). However, it is likely that the Bloodletters would go down from the Guard in the following assault phase. In the second one, with the HT charging, the Bloodletters didn't stand a chance. Both times Skulltaker went down to the Tyrant before he could even do anything. It is my belief that with Lashwhips from Guard this time around, Walkrants will be quite nasty (I can't see using other options, being brought to I1 in assault is too scary to pass up). Even if you do have powerweapons, your going to have to take a crapload of attacks before you get to use any of them. Overall, I really don't think Daemons as a whole are a very intimidating army to Nids (or any armies for that matter) they have their appeal, and they can be quite nasty if used correctly, but overall, not that scary. Bloodletters (and most Daemons for that matter, especially Melee ones) are pretty sucky unless you can get them behind cover. Bloodletters pop in and say "RAWR WE HAZ ALL PWRWEPS" and sit there for the entire next enemy shooting phase with their fantastic T4 and 5+ save. Yes all Daemons have invulns. Unfortunately, they don't have a better armor save as well (with the exception of Bloodcrushers, Thirsters, and other Daemons with Iron Hide).

Remember that the letters or skull taker (your choice) will need 5s to hit if warp scream/paroxysm goes off. And that'll make tyrant guard and tyrant hitting on 3s as well.

Shep wrote:Remember that the letters or skull taker (your choice) will need 5s to hit if warp scream/paroxysm goes off. And that'll make tyrant guard and tyrant hitting on 3s as well.

No, double plus one. Even with Warp Scream (bringing down their WS by one), the Letters are still WS 4 and ST is still WS6, and therefore, still hitting on 4's. Unless there's something else that I'm missing.

I am pretty sure it actually reduces the units BS and WS to one. Also, I think Bloodletters get a save versus psychic abilities.


Thats also a unholy amount of points.

A 25 Termagaunt squad near a tervigon and armed with devourers will eat a Bloodletter squad up.

Im sure someone has the odds on 75 ST4 shots at Termagaunst BS then 50 attacks that have furious charge and poison so they reroll wounds.

20 bloodletters and Skulltaker are 460 points.

25 Termgaunts w/ devourers and a tricked out Tervigon is something like the same price I believe. Not to give points away.

Hollismason wrote:I am pretty sure it actually reduces the units BS and WS to one. Also, I think Bloodletters get a save versus psychic abilities.

If only. Bloodletters do not have Blessing of the Blood God. Skulltaker does, but Blessing of the Bloodgod grants a 2+ invuln against wounds caused by Psychic powers and Force Weapons. Because Warp Scream is not causing a wound to be taken, Skulltaker does not get a save against it. Only against Psychic powers which cause wounds, and Force Weapons. Also, I misread Warp Scream saying it reduces it to 1. In that case, Skulltaker and company won't do anything in the scenario where they are charged.

Yeah its kind of a powerful ability. Tyranid warriors are enough to kick them around as they have I believe pairs of talons which reroll to hits?( wounds maybe can't remember) and come armed with devourers.


5 Tyranid Warriors w/ i think poison and lash whips is the the 200 range and a tricked out tyrant is in the same range.

Also, I think Tyrants can get tetrafex bugs which have a template that wounds on 2+ I am not clear on that rumour that may not be true at all. Add in the 15 devourer shots. Thats before even charging.

From the lists posted so far, I rather like the new codex and the models. Although I play Tau, I may get a few models because they look interesting to paint.

Having played against Daemons on several occasions, I can honestly say that :

1) Yes they can be absolutely lethal.

2) Half the time the army gets the wrong half in and often lands in the wrong place.

It is an army that really is more die dependent than any other I think.

Hollismason wrote:

Necrons = GG next map Gargoyles kill everything in the entire army except a monolith. Sure they wound on a six with their ST5 weapons which wound T6 on a 5 or 6 any way. Um Deciever and that other guy can die to a 20 man 120 point Termagaunt squad.

You know, while I am in agreement with the hilarious ineptitude of the current playability of Necrons, I feel the need to point out something:

There is essentially no circumstance where the nightbringer and very, very few circumstances where the deceiver can be tied up in close combat with termigants unless the necron player chooses to be.

AoD wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

Necrons = GG next map Gargoyles kill everything in the entire army except a monolith. Sure they wound on a six with their ST5 weapons which wound T6 on a 5 or 6 any way. Um Deciever and that other guy can die to a 20 man 120 point Termagaunt squad.

You know, while I am in agreement with the hilarious ineptitude of the current playability of Necrons, I feel the need to point out something:

There is essentially no circumstance where the nightbringer and very, very few circumstances where the deceiver can be tied up in close combat with termigants unless the necron player chooses to be.

Yeah I agree with that statement, however, it's not like there aren't numerous other gribbly monsters that could kill either C'tan.

I've searched for this and I don't understand the translation.

Can someone explain exactly how the Mawloc deep strikes? Here's what I understand;

Put a die on the table to represent entry, must be 1" away from enemy per normal DS
Roll scatter
After position is determined, place a large blast----suffer a Str. 6 AP2 hit, armor hit on rear
Push models out of the way and place big bad dude.

This right?

Yeah the wording I read that was translated is kind of wonky. If its a blast weapon and the center hole is not on a vehicle its at half strength which would mean str. 3 which even against any rear armour cannot do anything.

That's pretty much how it works though which is why ultimately for the points its better than a Trigon.

3 of those turning up on a 2+ on turn 2 along with droppods Ymar genestealers, Deathleaper.

Yeah its not pleasant.


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edit:

Does anyone know if the tervigon has access to a spore pod?

Hollismason wrote:

Does anyone know if the tervigon has access to a spore pod?

Nope, it can not..... sorry

I guess it will just have to outflank with the Tyrants ability to give a troop outflank :(.

@ Chapterhouse

Hey , one of the things you guys ought to consider is a cheap Tervigon conversion kit. I mean all you would need is to have a add on belly sac with egg pods. Some arms and a gun. Also more biomorphs please

And your genestealer heads look amazing. Please to be putting one head on a Cadian Guardsman and take a picture please or a ghoul.