Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

An accurate and fairly succinct summary of what happened on those forums I think.

The rule specifically banning the mention of squats was a cracker

Friend of mine used to post there and talked about the stuff that got the Mods angry, like a fake magazine with a "[/i]Safe guide to Power-Fisting[/i]" and things like that.

Given how new everything was back then, and how little GW embrace technology now, is it any wonder the GW forums were doomed to closure?

Didn't complaining Wraithlords were broken get banned as well?

They also ignored most of the questions. Friend of mine posted a thread asking about the mistakes in the Necromunda: Underhive rulebook (that book has the same mistakes as the original print rulebook, plus all new ones!) and got ignored 3 times.

Just spent 20mins of my life reading through this discussion and I'd like to make the following point: I've said it once and I'll say it again - GW does not care one hoot what a bunch of spotty faced geeks or washed up bums (like me) think about its products. I love this site, but I think it flatters itself over its own importance.

What GW does care about is the opinion of sellers such as Wayland Games. In my dealings with Waylands they come as across as friendly and helpful people. If you were to lobby them about problems with the hobby in regard to price and quality, you'd have more of a chance of GW doing something about it.

Just spent 20mins of my life reading through this discussion and I'd like to make the following point: I've said it once and I'll say it again - GW does not care one hoot what a bunch of spotty faced geeks or washed up bums (like me) think about its products. I love this site, but I think it flatters itself over its own importance.

Data mining is just that Data Mining. Dakka is one of the largest source of data in this hobby we enjoy. We already know that GW employees go to this site. They look at things in here.

I'll go on further however I'll be beating a dead horse concerning this matter.

iproxtaco wrote: However, if they just see a wall of criticism they aren't going to take it seriously anyway. GW is of the mind that a few customers writing in represent only those few customers. What Calvin did was give them statistics, however inaccurate and novel they may seem, coming from an internet forum. It should have given them at least an over-view of how people are reacting.

I think the problem might be that they've been criticized so much that the "wall of criticism" is ALL they see. I for one, disagree with their plan because it means completely ignoring the customers/fan base in regards to what THEY would like to see in the next rules edition/codex/army book.

Waiting for other companies like Privateer to take advantage of GW's ridiculously high prices.

Wolfstan wrote:Probably due to the fact that everyone knows that Forgeworld goods are a luxury extra, it's you're choice if you want to add them to your army. If you don't buy them, then your army won't suffer, whereas with the mainstream GW models you have to buy them. Otherwise you just get to play with the AoBR box set, and that means somewhat limited game play

Actually, in many parts of the world, Forgeworld is the more senceable and cheeper option then the regular GW figgies. It's only in the UK that Forgeworld is 'the bling'. It's cheeper for me to buy a Razorback from FW, then to go to the local GW and pick it up. Even with shipping it still workes out cheeper, the only thing that doesn't is the conversion kits. Using Canadian curency to order abroad is so much better and has been for a year or so now. Our southeren cousins are finding this out also.


The main problem I see with GW is there continual use of the UK business model in the rest of world. The UK model will not work in the US or Canada(Aussie land also ) because of the distances and population densitys. In the 90's they had a different business model over here and it worked great, but it wasn't what the GW top brass wanted so they gutted it. They are still feeling the effects of this decision today. Also having Mr Kirby come over here ( north america) SNAFU* everything on this side of the pond, install a yes woman incharge ( Sandra somthing or another) then say "project complete, may I please come home now?" might not be the best way to run a multi-million pound per year operation.

But then again, im just Michael on the internet, what do I know?

*SNAFU = Situation,Normal,All,Fouled(Fu**ed),Up. Sounds like GW's business plan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Just spent 20mins of my life reading through this discussion and I'd like to make the following point: I've said it once and I'll say it again - GW does not care one hoot what a bunch of spotty faced geeks or washed up bums (like me) think about its products. I love this site, but I think it flatters itself over its own importance.

What GW does care about is the opinion of sellers such as Wayland Games. In my dealings with Waylands they come as across as friendly and helpful people. If you were to lobby them about problems with the hobby in regard to price and quality, you'd have more of a chance of GW doing something about it.

And who do you think Wayland Games markets too ? GW kiddies on the 'internet'? No, GW doesn't want those kids to know the internet exists.

Wayland Games markets to places GWPLC has priced out with their own in store prices.ie Canada and Aus. Thats who Wayland Games and Malestorm and DarkSphere etc etc market to.

What percentage does the Trade Accounts make up of GW profit, around 41%. Do you think they want to loose it?

Chimera_Calvin wrote:Australia and New Zealand need protecting from those evil European traders or the hobby will disappear down under... what the ?

I can see where they are coming on this aspect - I actually agree with this point. Buy from your local gaming store so you have a place to play - they can't use an online retailer as a distributor. Unless you are content with only playing in a basement/friend's garage/etc. I think the issue you have is that the price is not competitive. If they can ship the product to that part of the world than why can't GW?

Then again, I don't buy enough stuff any more to make the 65% off retail that these stores offer worthwhile (I would save $5-$10 a month/ two months when I buy my 1 box of stuff/mini). I guess if I was to buy ~$1,000 retail it would be worth it but I'm just old fashioned I guess - when I want to buy something I want to see it, touch it, and take it home right away. Then again, the stores in my area also offer discounts (usually 30% off when you play in their semi-monthly tournaments).

Adam LongWalker wrote:

Just spent 20mins of my life reading through this discussion and I'd like to make the following point: I've said it once and I'll say it again - GW does not care one hoot what a bunch of spotty faced geeks or washed up bums (like me) think about its products. I love this site, but I think it flatters itself over its own importance.

Data mining is just that Data Mining. Dakka is one of the largest source of data in this hobby we enjoy. We already know that GW employees go to this site. They look at things in here.

I'll go on further however I'll be beating a dead horse concerning this matter.

It's a wrong dead horse. While some GW empoyees, even studio staff, may visit forums like this, we are not their target demographic. Acting on complaints from people not in your target demographic is not what a business does.

Next let me deal with price increases. We review our pricing each year. In doing so we take into account the costs of designing and making the product, raw material costs, support costs such as staff salaries and rent for our Hobby Centres and of course any quality improvements we have designed into the products.

All of these costs have increased in recent years, particularly raw material costs such as tin and plastic which have increased far faster than our retail prices. The reason that we have been able to absorb much of this cost pressure is that we are constantly investing in technology and training to deliver greater efficiency in our manufacturing and design processes. We have also worked hard to keep our staffing to a minimum in all areas, from hobby centres to production lines to offices.

I've never seen GW's prices come down...

-J.

I only recall once when prices came down, and that was around the end of 2nd edition, start of 3rd edition, when they moved away from pricing everything individually and moved to 'price brackets'.

Of course, some stuff when up in price to fit into the 'correct' bracket, but a few things came down to fit into the 'correct' bracket. It was probably the only time I'd agree when they called it a price 'adjustment', since it wasn't an across the board price increase.

boyd wrote:I can see where they are coming on this aspect - I actually agree with this point. Buy from your local gaming store so you have a place to play - they can't use an online retailer as a distributor. Unless you are content with only playing in a basement/friend's garage/etc. I think the issue you have is that the price is not competitive. If they can ship the product to that part of the world than why can't GW?

Over the last 17 years, I have played in one tournament that was in a games store, and in a single multiplayer game in a GW store back when I was first starting out. The rest of my gaming has been at home, or at various gamig clubs. Given how spread out (and how generally sad) Australian gaming stores are, I would very strongly suspect that the vast majority of Australian gamers would tell a similar story.

Historically, Oz gaming stores have generally had limited gaming space. For some years the main stockist of GW miniatures in Australia was Toyworld, and not a gaming store at all... (yet another mark against Mark Well's claim that internet retaiolers are bad because they don't offer anywhere to play... Toyworld doesn't either. Neither do most of the general hobby or comic stores that make up about half of the remaining GW stockists in Australia).

So it's questionable as to just how much an affect the loss of Australia's independant GW stockists would even have on Australian gaming. Most of the sensible ones aren't relying solely on GW... the ones that do don't last long. And non-GW games are gaining momentum down here at a fearsome rate.

Ultimately, it's up to GW, though. It's not up to us to subsidise GW Australia. If they want to remain in business, they need to make themselves competitive. You bolster your local market by giving people a reason to support it, not by trying to force them into a situation where they have no choice.

I have to agree with my fellow Aussies.

The idea of 'support your local gaming store so you have somewhere to play" is a very American concept.

I have been playing 40k since 1989 and have never played in a game store of any variety.
here in perth there one or maybe 2 stores that sell GW products that aren't GW, and neither have any gaming space at all.

So the 'loyalty to a local gaming store' ideal holds 0 water with me since I have never used a gaming store in my life. All gaming around Perth is generally done in clubs and/or your own house, unless you are very young and enjoy GW stores themselves.

Though I understand that things are veery different for our American brothers.

This BTW is why blanket worldwide policies are not a very good idea., since every community is very different.

I agree with what insaniak and Roleplayer have said.

All my games for many years have been played at friends houses or games clubs.

Here in Canberra there are not a lot of hobby stores and people don't tend to game there (Magic card game they do).

I also second the statement that there has been an increase in non-GW games poping up.

Due to the smaller start up costs and investment in time it takes to get a painted army up, I guess its a natural progression.

I guess I should feel lucky that this place is my FLGS.

I went in on Sunday with a friend who has been out of the hobby for longer than I was, as he wanted to see what it was like. Late Sunday afternoon, and the place was packed. 40k league in progress, people playing board games, people playing MGS. After browsing the store for ages, we walked out, and his first words were 'that place is awesome.'

Still though, gaming space is a bit small (I think 4 5x3 tables), since the guy is waiting for approval to knock a wall down and double the size of his store, for more tables.

Playing at home or clubs is the normal pattern in the UK too. Which makes it ironic that the UK has by far the majority of GW shops.

This difference to the USA has been discussed many times in the forum.

I believe it is partly to do with public liability insurance and the high cost of hiring venues in the USA compared to the UK.

I don't know whether the veteran/online community is within GW's target demographic or not. If not, it still represents a massive potential resource of game evaluation and advice which might be applicable to selling stuff to newbies, as well as an active community that can help or hinder GW's efforts to market to the newbies.

Perhaps GW believe they can control the whole newbie sector of the wargame business, by recruiting through shops and keeping all knowledge of alternative games away from young, impressionable minds.

Killkrazy wrote:

I don't know whether the veteran/online community is within GW's target demographic or not. If not, it still represents a massive potential resource of game evaluation and advice which might be applicable to selling stuff to newbies, as well as an active community that can help or hinder GW's efforts to market to the newbies.

That is correct. which I have been trying to state. GW looks at this site as well as game source evaluation.


Also, how many small companies visit Dakka to sell their product here? Considering the promotions given to the site I say enough to make their time to make it worth their while.

Dakka is an important site to the hobby (not just 40K) in general.