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They mentioned in a con that they won't give Stormraven to any other marines.

Cyrax wrote:They mentioned in a con that they won't give Stormraven to any other marines.

I would soooooooo make a bet against who ever said that or believe that.

Hah, Kanluwen solved it fast then, Its clearly Azreal!

I'm looking forward for to the next edition, DA are a cool chapter.

Ill still stay with Ultramarines of course, I enjoy the scorn of the neckbeards.. But Ill enjoy looking at everyone else's DA.

LunaHound wrote:

Cyrax wrote:They mentioned in a con that they won't give Stormraven to any other marines.

I would soooooooo make a bet against who ever said that or believe that.

It was a con in either UK or Australia and the ones who said it were GW design team/ writers. I read it in dakka but was busy with raging over lack of Necron mention back then.

Im not doubting it was said.
Im just doubting them sticking to their words :'P

Man, I remember having that Azrael model back in the day (god knows why though, I played chaos...). The dinky little helmet hobbit still pleases. I know it is deepest and darkest heresy, but I'm looking forward to a new DA codex because I'll happily switch rules for my codex marines if I can actually use my tactical terminator models for more than proxying...

LunaHound wrote:Im not doubting it was said.
Im just doubting them sticking to their words :'P

DA codices are not known for having things from other codices. For God's sake, we can't even keep what is our own.

And you will be deep striking the Dark Raven carrying all termies jumping out and charge on the same turn they arrive - Matt

Well I am now starting to hope the Dark Angels book is indeed incoming.
Was in Ipswich yesterday and my mother brought me the Ravenwing Battleforce for my Birthday, think thats the first thing 40K related she's brought me in about fifteen years.

I think it is pretty much confirmed.

If we get another amazing sculpt of a Termie Chaplain out of this, I'm all for it. The current Termie Chaplain is probably GW best model. More would be amazing!

I would like to add that the fallen will have "A significant part of the codex" quoted from my local source

So less on the actual Unforgiven and what makes them unique and more on doing renegades...

Well I suppose that this could explain chaos vs. DA in the starter, the chaos side has one of the fallen in it and there's a mini campaign to capture him/ kill the chaplain leading the DA...

LunaHound wrote:

Cyrax wrote:They mentioned in a con that they won't give Stormraven to any other marines.

I would soooooooo make a bet against who ever said that or believe that.

More likely it will be a similar gunship that may make use of some of the stormraven sprues.

Trechor wrote:I wonder what type of Stormraven we'll get?

You will get a unit riding on angels.

The models will come out a year later after all the second party folks have all already made them...

Cyrax wrote:
DA codices are not known for having things from other codices. For God's sake, we can't even keep what is our own.

Not sure what you are talking about. Infact, when Codex Angels of Death was originally published, they poached ALOT of stuff that was previously exclusive to other books. Say, Landspeeders, Attack Bikes or Veteran Squads for example. Clearly, Dark Angels should give them back. Oh, and Terminator Armour too. They were published first not in a Dark Angel book, so they should rightfully be exclusive to the Codex that published them first.

So should the Ultramarines be giving all their toys back to the Space Wolves then since they were published first in 2nd Edition?

Ronin_eX wrote:So should the Ultramarines be giving all their toys back to the Space Wolves then since they were published first in 2nd Edition?

If you agree with the warped logic that an army made exclusively of Terminators (or Bikes) is for some strange reason "unique" to Dark Angels, just because it happened there first (and any book that later employed the concept "stole" it from Dark Angels), than yes. Most definitely.

If you can see that, given how GW publishes Codexes sequentially (!), everything was "first" in some Codex at some time (with no implied claim to exclusivity), then probably not.

Zweischneid wrote:

Cyrax wrote:
DA codices are not known for having things from other codices. For God's sake, we can't even keep what is our own.

Not sure what you are talking about. Infact, when Codex Angels of Death was originally published, they poached ALOT of stuff that was previously exclusive to other books. Say, Landspeeders, Attack Bikes or Veteran Squads for example. Clearly, Dark Angels should give them back. Oh, and Terminator Armour too. They were published first not in a Dark Angel book, so they should rightfully be exclusive to the Codex that published them first.

You mean back than when the rules said *Look in the space marine codex for this* Instead of having an index unless it was changed.

One of the things he is talking about is the Mortis Dread, which is literally FLUFFWISE (As in, literally no other chapter used it) and (originally) Rulewise was Dark Angel exclusive thanks to an update..than Matt ward gave it to space marines and we ended up with GK psyflemen

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

One of the things he is talking about is the Mortis Dread, which is literally FLUFFWISE (As in, literally no other chapter used it) and (originally) Rulewise was Dark Angel exclusive thanks to an update..than Matt ward gave it to space marines and we ended up with GK psyflemen

Maybe. But in this very same thread, people keep flaunting ideas like expanding Sternguard special ammunition to Dark Angel (Termies), which again were "stolen" by Matt Ward from Ultramarine Tyranid War Veterans who FLUFFWISE and (originally) Rulewise were Ultramarines-only to be given to all Space Marines and are now craved by the Dark Angel peeps.

Hypocrisy still runs strong with the "exclusivity" fetishists. All I am saying is that, if you apply the "exclusivity" idea rigorously, you'd end up with some strange results.. say the Rhino being exclusive to Space Wolves, Razorback and Attack Bikes being exclusive to Ultramarines, etc.. .

Hell, even if something is done at some point first, then yes, the writer may whip up some fluff that ties it in with the current book he is writing on. Shouldn't mean you have to take it too religiously. When GW was doing the Stormraven for a smaller-than-Thunderhawk flyer for Space Marine, the Codex that happend to be coming was Blood Angels. So they got a piece of fluff sticking it to them (as well as some foreshadowing to the next power-armour codex to come). If it had instead been Codex Rainbow Warriors in the pipeline, they would be the ones stuck "first" with the Storm Raven (and some quick fluff-piece attributing the model to them). Dont read too much into those fluff justifications.. if you do, you're putting the cart before the horse.

Besides on the subject of the mortis dreads, only the autocannon variant is available to everyone (although it is one of the best)

Ronin_eX wrote:So should the Ultramarines be giving all their toys back to the Space Wolves then since they were published first in 2nd Edition?

Better than that, it can all go back the White Scars, who got the first ever published Space Marine list, back in late 87/early 88.

hich again were "stolen" by Matt Ward from Ultramarine Tyranid War Veterans who FLUFFWISE and (originally) Rulewise were Ultramarines-only to be given to all Space Marines and are now craved by the Dark Angel peeps.

Which was taken from the DeathWatch Marine inclusion before it, because the hellfire rounds (The only ammunition mind you they had) was taken from them back when they were in chapter approved

And fluffwise, every single marine group had access to those special boltgun bullets, they've been represented in fluff as far back as 2nd edition spacewolves, but not yet shown up in gameplay.

Codex that happend to be coming was Blood Angels. So they got a piece of fluff sticking it to them (as well as some foreshadowing to the next power-armour codex to come)

Yeah it was listed to them and GK, and GK got it next of course.

Though I don't really like the stern guards ammunition really going out beyond standard space marines. I believed they shouldn't have given them to Blood Angels either.

I mean sure differing ammunition can be done, but for terminators? Not so much.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I mean sure differing ammunition can be done, but for terminators? Not so much.

Why not? If you don't like it, you do not have to use it. But if some people think it'd be cool, there'd be no harm done in giving them the option.

Zweischneid wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

One of the things he is talking about is the Mortis Dread, which is literally FLUFFWISE (As in, literally no other chapter used it) and (originally) Rulewise was Dark Angel exclusive thanks to an update..than Matt ward gave it to space marines and we ended up with GK psyflemen

Maybe. But in this very same thread, people keep flaunting ideas like expanding Sternguard special ammunition to Dark Angel (Termies), which again were "stolen" by Matt Ward from Ultramarine Tyranid War Veterans who FLUFFWISE and (originally) Rulewise were Ultramarines-only to be given to all Space Marines

Who originally got their rules from Deathwatch Kill-Teams.

and are now craved by the Dark Angel peeps.

Not really. The point that was made in expressing the "craving" for it was that it would add something unique to the Dark Angels Terminators without simply adding +1 to their stats.

Hypocrisy still runs strong with the "exclusivity" fetishists. All I am saying is that, if you apply the "exclusivity" idea rigorously, you'd end up with some strange results.. say the Rhino being exclusive to Space Wolves, Razorback and Attack Bikes being exclusive to Ultramarines, etc.. .

And if you don't apply the exclusivity idea rigorously, you end up with an army with all of the unique flavor removed and constantly called for it to be put into the main Space Marine Codex.

Dark Angels, simply put, need something to justify them having their own Codex. They had something--but it is no longer JUST theirs. That's not an issue in and of itself.
It becomes an issue, however, when it is one of the defining features of the Codex. The Deathwing and Ravenwing have been the go-to lists for the Dark Angels books. They've been the defining feature...especially with the way the current "normal" list is, where price costs for the normal Troops choice(Tactical Squads, since Scout squads are Elites) are a bit silly.

Hell, even if something is done at some point first, then yes, the writer may whip up some fluff that ties it in with the current book he is writing on. Shouldn't mean you have to take it too religiously. When GW was doing the Stormraven for a smaller-than-Thunderhawk flyer for Space Marine, the Codex that happend to be coming was Blood Angels. So they got a piece of fluff sticking it to them (as well as some foreshadowing to the next power-armour codex to come). If it had instead been Codex Rainbow Warriors in the pipeline, they would be the ones stuck "first" with the Storm Raven (and some quick fluff-piece attributing the model to them). Dont read too much into those fluff justifications.. if you do, you're putting the cart before the horse.

Yes, and when GW was doing the Stormraven the assumption by the playerbase was that either a new Space Marine codex(vanilla) was coming which would include it or a White Dwarf update would make it available to all Space Marine books.

How'd that work out, again?
Sometimes you have to realize that the cart isn't necessarily what you think it is. The Stormraven, at this point, has had plenty of opportunities to be given out to other Marine books. It could have been introduced with Space Wolves and not Blood Angels as well.

Kanluwen wrote:

How'd that work out, again?
Sometimes you have to realize that the cart isn't necessarily what you think it is. The Stormraven, at this point, has had plenty of opportunities to be given out to other Marine books. It could have been introduced with Space Wolves and not Blood Angels as well.

What other opportunities? I believe the Stormraven has appeared in all "Loyalist Power Armour books" released since the model was (almost) ready. No reason to believe this will change. Yes, it could have been introduced with Space Wolves too. If it didn't, probably because rules or the model were not ready. If the Harpy is the "Nid-Flyer", it too is lacking a model so far. The "flyer for ever release" schtick (parallel to WFB's large monster for every release) didn't really come into full until early 2010.

Zweischneid wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

How'd that work out, again?
Sometimes you have to realize that the cart isn't necessarily what you think it is. The Stormraven, at this point, has had plenty of opportunities to be given out to other Marine books. It could have been introduced with Space Wolves and not Blood Angels as well.

What other opportunities? I believe the Stormraven has appeared in all "Loyalist Power Armour books" released since the model was (almost) ready. No reason to believe this will change.

Convenient of you to leave out the key opportunity, which I even mentioned: White Dwarf. The Eldar received a "new" Codex vehicle(the Night Spinner) in the form of White Dwarf, and the Vampire Counts received three new units(Cairn Wraiths+Tomb Banshees as heroes, the Terrorgheist and its Ghoul King) shortly before their book released. There's also the Imperial Armour Apocalypse books as an avenue.

Yes, it could have been introduced with Space Wolves too. If it didn't, probably because rules or the model were not ready.

And the model wasn't ready for the Blood Angels' release either.

If the Harpy is the "Nid-Flyer", it too is lacking a model so far. The "flyer for ever release" schtick (parallel to WFB's large monster for every release) didn't really come into full until early 2010.

The Dark Eldar bomber is still missing as well.

Aye, I assumed they'd go out to all armies as well, but as time moves on I am thinking like the Baal Pred and the Death Company Dread, it's going to remain in Blood Angel hands, oh and also Grey Knights of course.

Perhaps if it sold poorly, GW might have made a call to open them up to all armies, but GK and BA armies are that popular, I think they can afford to keep in unique to them.

I just hope Dark Angels are granted some things to mark them as unique, and I am pretty confident they will do. GW is loving making up new plastic kits out f the blue atm. Sorta excited on what we could end up with.

Kanluwen wrote:
Convenient of you to leave out the key opportunity, which I even mentioned: White Dwarf. The Eldar received a "new" Codex vehicle(the Night Spinner) in the form of White Dwarf, and the Vampire Counts received three new units(Cairn Wraiths+Tomb Banshees as heroes, the Terrorgheist and its Ghoul King) shortly before their book released. There's also the Imperial Armour Apocalypse books as an avenue.

Nightspinner was largely a byproduct of the Spearhead-release, which somehow went from a full 40K Expansion to a "White-Dwarf" extention. I would not read any regularity into it. Sisters, inversely, didn't get a single new thing despite an entire "Dwarf-Codex". Vampire Counts, as you say, got more of a rules preview, with the Codex coming up sharp on the heels of the White Dwarf release.

Imperial Armour Apocalypse is not handled by GW's game developer team. Certainly, they didn't add FW "flyers" to older Codexes (Eldar, Tau, Chaos, etc..) to tide them over as "new books" got their new big toys.

Kanluwen wrote:
The Dark Eldar bomber is still missing as well.

True enough. All the more reason GW should focus on Xenos flyers and stick with the Stormraven for Marines (rather than develop another, non-Stormraven Marine-flyer).

Zweischneid wrote:

True enough. All the more reason GW should focus on Xenos flyers and stick with the Stormraven for Marines (rather than develop another, non-Stormraven Marine-flyer).

Not even a plastic thunderhawk?