Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And the Dark Angels invented it.

Forge World says so!

Lets give the space wolves their Leman Russes back then. My raven guard also want personal stealth fields. The imperial fists need their death star.

That's not really a relevant argument.

Dark Angels invented the Mortis for their own use. Probably because their only non-secret is that they like throwing bullets at the enemy in large quantities.

Leman Russ, the dude, has nothing to do with Leman Russ, the tank. It's like the American Sherman tank has nothing to do with General Sherman. Space Wolves used to have Leman Russes, but now they have Thunderwolves, Wolf Talismans, Wolf Wolves, Wolf wolf wolf wolf. Leman Russes aren't yiff enough for Wolfy Wolves.

EDIT: When I say "nothing to do with", I mean the individual had no hand in the creation of the tank. It's just named after the individual for historic reasons.

Kanluwen wrote:I swear to God, if we don't get Mortis dreads I will be furious.

The fact that they were not in the Dark Angels Codex in the first place was ridiculous. They already existed in Imperial Armour Volume II: Space Marines and the Inquisition. They were a Dark Angels and their Successor Chapters only item.

Yet, none were given.
Just blargh.

Considering every loyalist codex since C:SM can field them, I think it's a safe bet they'll return.

Blood Angels have a Reclusiarch and 2 Named charator Chaplains for HQ selections. They can get 1 Chaplain for each Elite slot and one of the named Charators can be taken with changed stats with a Death Company in a Troop slot.. So as many as 6 Chapains can be taken in a standard force org.

A 1 wound chaplain - elite choice that can be dispersed among other squads would be interesting. Make it 1-3 per choice or allow them as an addition if you have an Interrogator Chaplain.

My one reservation is I think GW would be better served to make the DA a shooty chapter. As far as HTH, we already have Black Templars, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Grey Knights - do we need another variation on a theme?

Thoghts: Marksmanship (reroll 1s on all to hit rolls if stationary)
Reduced cost plasma weaponry.
Non-gets-hot plasma (perhaps reduced S 6 like tau and eldar)
No sternguard but perhaps a plasma armed veteran squad.
Heavy Plasma option for speeders.
Return of the old 2nd edition plasma rules ( as I recall they had a save normal power and a gets hot high-powered shot that also meant no shooting for the next phase.)

The others are more get thecodex up-to-date wish lists...
Full landspeeder and razorback options. Reduced costs.
Non-IQ challenged librarians - some up-to-date psychic abilities. No vanguard vets but please incorporate their stat lines and upgrades to ravenwing.

dadieau wrote:Blood Angels have a Reclusiarch and 2 Named charator Chaplains for HQ selections. They can get 1 Chaplain for each Elite slot and one of the named Charators can be taken with changed stats with a Death Company in a Troop slot.. So as many as 6 Chapains can be taken in a standard force org.

2 named HQs? Astorath and ?

But yes, we have lots of Chaplains available. I personally think they're best IC out the lot and would love for the DAs to.get access to more!

I also like the idea of more/special dreads for them! (Nothing to do with me being a BA player! )

But then again, walkers are so tough at the mo, maybe they'll get nurfed in 6th?

Who knows! We'll just have to wait and see!

Lets give the space wolves their Leman Russes back then. My raven guard also want personal stealth fields. The imperial fists need their death star.

Yeah, not to mention the forge world land raider with the armour equivalent of a WW2 sherman cardboard tank.
All hail forge world.

Chaplains being made widespread != Dark Angels becoming Close Combat, necessarily.

Chaplains are close combat characters, certainly. But they're also inspiring individuals who cajole their Battle-Brothers to further feats of heroism.

We should have all the Sternguard ammo types for the Deathwing and they should be WS 5 and BS 5- they are the best and only fight in Termie armor so they should be experts at it. Ravenwing should be stubborn instead of fearless and should get to assault like Vanguard vets. Ravenwing support squadrons should have 2 twin-linked assault cannons - Ravenwing Support bikes should have twin-linked heavy weapons and should get alternate weapons too, like Missle launchers, or plasma or heavy flamers.- things like that would make em stand out. Banners should come back- once per game army-wide - advantage for Movement- shooting or assault

Pyriel- wrote:

A cheaper sanguine priest like unit that can give litanies of hate and fearless to numerous squads in the army could be useful. Not nearly as useful and FNP and FC in a giant ridiculous bubble, but than nothing is.

Yeah if at least they gave SM chaplains FnP they would start to be worth their insane 100 points.

Why do you assume DA Chaplains would be 100 points in the new dex? If they are like Sanguinary Priests and Wolf Guard they will be much, much cheaper.

I don't know how I feel about going back to the "DA have lots of Plasma" theme. It was fun when we could get Plasma cannons in our Tactical squads and stuff, but it was an add-on and immediately was granted to normal SM's anyway so I'm skeptical.

What I'd like to see:

DW being the most bad-ass terminators this side of Grey Knights.
RW with force-modifier like abilities (kind of how they are now but a whole lot cheaper)
A focus on Chaplains (looks like they are going this route)
Mortis Dreadnoughts (the fact that SM's got these and DA didn't is criminal)
A focus on the Intractable nature of DA. Maybe something like giving up movement for increased firepower/fearless.
A focus on the Strategic nature of DA. The Lion was one of the best strategic Primarchs, this should be shown with DA Masters and Azrael having cool strategic abilities a la the new Necron Overlords.

That will separate the DA from just being "green marines."

I like the idea of focusing on Chaplains, better tech, and more strategic/resolute. DA were my first marines (2nd Edition) and I'd love to be able to field all my robed marines as a successor chapter again!

Sidenote:

I'd almost like to see the DW be slightly better than GK Termies. Bear with me. The DW are suppose to be hardcore and not just at fight daemons. They spend their time chasing OG Dark Angels. Dudes who they normally only find when they've built themselves a small empire or maybe when they've joined a Chaos Warband. These are dudes that are suppose to drop in relatively unsupported and bring hardcases back alive to be tortured. Better than GK's seems reasonable. Ala WS5 to go along with their weapon options.

WS/BS5 would go a long way towards making DW worth it. The only thing I'd watch out for is making DW so good that there is no reason to take anything else (kind of like now...).

Hulksmash wrote:

Sidenote:

I'd almost like to see the DW be slightly better than GK Termies. Bear with me. The DW are suppose to be hardcore and not just at fight daemons. They spend their time chasing OG Dark Angels. Dudes who they normally only find when they've built themselves a small empire or maybe when they've joined a Chaos Warband. These are dudes that are suppose to drop in relatively unsupported and bring hardcases back alive to be tortured. Better than GK's seems reasonable. Ala WS5 to go along with their weapon options.

If Matt Ward writes it, you'll get your wish! In the fluff, at least.

I agree with them havign a higher WS. Deathwing are supposed to be the awesomeness incarnate. I See no awesome incarnate at the moment -_-

blood lance wrote:Perhaps deathwing can have a higher BS/WS than standard Deathwing terminators to represent their sheer awesomeness

This post makes no sense. Are you meaning "Inner Circle"?

@Puma

I already have the fluff. It's the fluff the Deathwing has had since 2nd edition. I just wouldn't mind seeing it. However I think the BS5 would be over the top. It'd have to be one or the other, I'd hope for WS but if they decide to focus on shooting it'd be interesting if they actually gave a SM unit a higher BS than WS....would be unique, that's for sure

There are some awesome ideas here but even though i'd love my DW to become even better than they are now, I'd have to say that making all DA termies better would be too good - WS5 and BS5 on all termies? No way, that's too good. WS5 maybe but BS5 no. Maybe on Elite only Termies a la my idea here

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/429520.page

I don't want to be tempted into just playing Death Wing when there's likely to be some really cool chapter specific stuff available to the power armour guys. Deathwing is pretty much tournament competitive as things are without the need for anything more than the odd tweak here and there whereas the rest of the codex really needs an overhaul.

What I would like to see:

Chaplains - some kind of DA version suited to a shooty army - they attach to a squad and give fearless and relentless.

Mortis dreads with the ability to take two plasma cannons (overpowered maybe? But very cool I think)

Some kind of elite choices that are similar to a 'master of the armoury' type tech marine but you can take one for each type of heavy weapon:

Master of plasma - take him and no plasma weapon in the army gets hot
Master of laser weaponry - makes them 'pulse' - I've seen this idea here on Dakka before
Master of melta - changes from half range for double D6 to 2/3 range is 2 d6 pen and 1/3 range is 3d6 pen
Master of missiles - frags don't scatter and Kraks add +1 AP

Maybe the above might need tweaking a bit but I'd love to see this kind of concept where you could forgo elite units to take these guys to boost the power of your shooting from the rest of your army. Wouldn't put them in the HQ slots though as it would limit their abilities too much and there's too much fun to be had with them and it would be better to have them in the same slots as these chaplains so as to avoid players taking loads of chaplains and masters of the armoury - you'd have to balance what you wanted.

puma713 wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:

Sidenote:

I'd almost like to see the DW be slightly better than GK Termies. Bear with me. The DW are suppose to be hardcore and not just at fight daemons. They spend their time chasing OG Dark Angels. Dudes who they normally only find when they've built themselves a small empire or maybe when they've joined a Chaos Warband. These are dudes that are suppose to drop in relatively unsupported and bring hardcases back alive to be tortured. Better than GK's seems reasonable. Ala WS5 to go along with their weapon options.

If Matt Ward writes it, you'll get your wish! In the fluff, at least.

Hope so! As long as it is not Jarvis writing it, I'm good at it may be a chance not to be boring as


As for the Black Templar vs Dark Angels Chaplains, both have their uses. Chaplains inspire their troops with litanies of hatred and should be a vital component for BT's raw hatred of xenos and other's, but the Dark Angels Chaplains are there to guard secrets, and torture the enemy for them. Thus the Interrogator Title, and they have more power within the chapter for their use of it, but they are not leaders like the Black Templar Chaplains, who can lead entire excursions without need of captains or higher ranks.

Brother SRM wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:dont like the chaplain thing, its just a cut and paste from the space wolf book/ necron book -_-

The idea of buying a unit and distributing it throughout the army is a novel one. Also, I hate that goddamn emoticon.

I'll believe this after someone reputable confirms it.

yeah, so novel two other dex's have it in this format and a few others in a different format :/

what I dont want to see is another "not-wolf guard* unit.

DPBellathrom wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:dont like the chaplain thing, its just a cut and paste from the space wolf book/ necron book -_-

The idea of buying a unit and distributing it throughout the army is a novel one. Also, I hate that goddamn emoticon.

I'll believe this after someone reputable confirms it.

yeah, so novel two other dex's have it in this format and a few others in a different format :/

what I dont want to see is another "not-wolf guard* unit.

I think I can speak for the majority of Dark Angels players posting here when I say that I do not really care what you "don't want to see". I want to see something nice and new in my book. I want to see a part of the Dark Angels background made manifest.

The Dark Angels got shafted, hard, with the Alessio-designed-but-written-by-Jervis book. The "Wolf Guard" way isn't. It's not been exclusive to Space Wolves, it's not exclusive to Blood Angels, it's not exclusive to anyone.
It's a smart way to add an elite unit which bolsters the rest

Two speculative possibilities:

1.) Dark Angels are reknown for being able to field a terminator army. Isn't it odd then that Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Blood Angels (Space Hulk) all have individual terminators but DA haven't? Esp. since the old ones were quite characteristic (native Indian design, but seems to have been retconned since). So making a special DA terminator sprue might be possible (as said, pure speculation).

2.) I am not familiar with Dark Angels. But would it make sense to include the traitors in the Codex to fill it with more content?

When did Dark Angels become the plasma marines? And how is that a theme? hahaha.

It happened with the re-write to the 3rd ed codex. They realized that DA were falling behind, power wise and so gave them lots of plasma to compensate. For awhile they were the only Tactical Squads that could take Plasma Cannons.

The theme came from the fact that they were the 1st Legion so had the most old tech. Didn't really make sense but it stuck and DA became the plasma marines for awhile.

Reecius wrote:When did Dark Angels become the plasma marines? And how is that a theme? hahaha.

Because thanks to Jarvis It's literally one of the very few things that has defined them in gameplay..

They need someone new to write them, and give them a new theme that isn't plasma. Sure plasma's nice, but as a THEME!?

The dark angels have some of my favorite fluff. I would love to see the ability to field either loyalist DA or the fallen. Cypher has a great model and would be awesome to play with again. The fallen fluff has always intrigued me and I would like someone other than Mat Ward to expand upon it.

Mat Ward fallen fluff = The fallen were actually Grey Knights in disguise the whole time!

Kroothawk wrote:Two speculative possibilities:

1.) Dark Angels are reknown for being able to field a terminator army. Isn't it odd then that Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Blood Angels (Space Hulk) all have individual terminators but DA haven't? Esp. since the old ones were quite characteristic (native Indian design, but seems to have been retconned since). So making a special DA terminator sprue might be possible (as said, pure speculation).

2.) I am not familiar with Dark Angels. But would it make sense to include the traitors in the Codex to fill it with more content?

1 Grey knights always had their own Termies. Deathwing got one plastic Termie per DA upgrade kit. YES expanding on the Deathwing wouldn't be unwelcome. If there are new options and different poses than usual...

2 Traitors belong into the fluff. Maybe Cypher could return in a chaos codex.

1a Plasma Termies. Please. Tactical Dreadnaught Armor = pretty good coolant systems.

And Cypher is really Draigo in disguise!

Please lay off the off-topic, spammy Ward-bashing.

Thanks.

Would love to see DA get a good dex and some nice models, my brother plays them and it's kind of depressing to see how little they have to be unique compared to my BA. I actually love the model for Asmodai, would be cool if he was re-introduced to a 'Dex (and since BA still has Tycho, surely DA can have Naaman back as well?)

Plasma options on tanks is nice but depends on other options. I don't generally find Plasma Cannons to be that useful (AP2 is great but they're unreliable) but it'd certainly be different. As for the Chaplains leading squads, I like that idea (especially if it was 1-wound Chaplains as a 1-3 Elites option, like BA have for Sanguinary Priests).

More than anything though all I'd like to see for DA is a more fleshed-out Codex with a few new options for versatility...preferably without ruining the fluff.

6th Ed should be interesting; I've been wanting to restart a CSM army for ages but held off on it (the 'Dex, etc) so this could be a time to consider it assuming CSM get a revamp too soon.

If GW had half a brain in its head it would use this oppurtunity to release a Mortis Dread Kit. Everyone would be buying them up to get TL AC dreads.

Bleh. Forget about TL-AC Washingmachines

I want one of these...



Pretty please?