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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BERZERKERS. 6 inch movement is nice for power armour and 3 att on the charge.....wow not like I already smashed in skulls with them..........(I play non-shoot based army's) and kharn is a BEAST. overall I think these changes are good
Also, it opens up the opportunity to run two 5 man Berserker squads if you want a second Champ with fancy weapon. And/or double the plasma pistols too I suppose.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
Instead of moving in their Movement phase, any Chaos
Character can, at the end of their Movement phase, attempt
to summon a Daemon unit with this ability by performing a
Daemonic Ritual (the character cannot do so if they arrived
as reinforcements this turn, or if they themselves have been
summoned to the battlefield this turn).
If they do so, first choose one of the four Chaos Gods - Khorne,
Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh. A Character who owes
allegiance to one of the Dark Gods can only attempt to summon the units of
their patron - for example, a Khorne Character could only attempt to
summon Khorne Daemons.
Roll up to 3 dice - this is your summoning roll. You can summon
one new unit with the Daemonic Ritual ability to the battelfiel that
has a Power Rating equal to or less than the total resutl so long
as it has the same Chaos God keyword you chose at the start
(in the case of units that have the choice of allegiance, such as Furies,
the unit when summoned will have this keyword). This unit is treated as
reinforcements for your army and can be placed anywhere on the
battlefield that is entirely within 12" of the character and is more
than 9" from any enemy model. If the total rolled is insufficient to
summon any unit, the ritual fails and no new unit is summoned.
If you summoning roll included any doubles, your character then
suffers a mortal wound. If it contained any triples, it instead suffers
D3 mortal wounds.
TonyH122 wrote: 1) Will a Heldrake have to spend 60(!) points for it's Baleflamer?
It will probably be an upgrade that will cost what ever the 60-default weapon.
Nope, it costs 60. The guy on Facebook had to correct himself, they only free weapons/weapons included in the cost of the unit are ones that cost zero.
You first have to "first choose one of the four Chaos Gods - Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh". And so, the summoned heldrake would be marked as the chosen god.
The bummer here is that you need to have reinforcement points available.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 00:10:42
So not only do you have to pay points to summon units (which is fine) but if you do not have a CHARACTER with the same alignment, you can't summon that unit.
So if I want Daemonettes, I need a Slaanesh Herald.
If I want Fleshhounds, I need a Khorne character
This is great from a fluff standpoint, but what about us undivided players who like take a variety of units and don't have characters of every color?
I guess I won't be summoning units very often...or at all.
Galef wrote: So not only do you have to pay points to summon units (which is fine) but if you do not have a CHARACTER with the same alignment, you can't summon that unit.
So if I want Daemonettes, I need a Slaanesh Herald. If I want Fleshhounds, I need a Khorne character
This is great from a fluff standpoint, but what about us undivided players who like take a variety of units and don't have characters of every color? I guess I won't be summoning units very often...or at all.
The way I read it, undivided characters (ie, Bel'akor) can summon. Only restriction is that you choose which god before rolling.
EDIT: oh, I misread you... you meant as a PLAYER bringing different units from the 4 gods.
Yeah... that's a bit of an issue. But, you'll be able to spam cheap HQ slots easier with that Command Detachment.
All I'm saying is that don't fret... I think this is good. The Daemon Summon Factory did need that nerfbat. This forces us to be a bit strategic and come up with optimal reinforce points. Should be doable since it appears that an 8th ed 2000 pt army is like the 7th ed 1850 pt army.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 00:52:02
Seeing as this Daemonic Summon uses powerlevel instead of points, I think is something of narrative player and not the actual rule about summoning for narrative play.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Galef wrote: So not only do you have to pay points to summon units (which is fine) but if you do not have a CHARACTER with the same alignment, you can't summon that unit.
So if I want Daemonettes, I need a Slaanesh Herald.
If I want Fleshhounds, I need a Khorne character
This is great from a fluff standpoint, but what about us undivided players who like take a variety of units and don't have characters of every color?
I guess I won't be summoning units very often...or at all.
As best I can tell all you need is a charcter in general. So a chaos lord with the Khorne keyword can summon Khorne Daemons.
This makes sence because if you could just bring 4 charcters cheaply you would have access to every Daemon unit in the game. This way you can have access to some probably 1/2 or 3/4 and have to shoose wisly. Not just spam charcters and summon the best counters to the enemy army.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 01:47:23
Oh for fluff, its great. I really like that. However it means I do not have a very good army anymore as I do not have enough of any 1 god to play a mono-god list. My collection mostly consists of 1 Greater Damon/DP of each god 1 Herald of each 1-2 units of lesser daemons of each god 12 screamers, 20 flesh hounds, 6 Beasts of Nurgle
Having to pay points is one thing, but requiring the summoner to be the same alignment throws list versatility out the window. Worse still, in order to benefit from the boosted LD of the characters, I need to focus my forces down to 1-2 alignments
Again, for fluffy mono-god lists, this is no issue. For a dedicated undivided player who ALWAYS takes 1-2 units for each god in EVERY game....this sucks.
I've never favored 1 god over any of the others, but if I want to take advantage of these rules, I have to at least build a list that HEAVILY features 1-2 of the same alignments. It looks like I'll have to adapt to playing Tzeentch/Khorne because I have more of those models than the other 2
-
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 02:08:02
Galef wrote: Oh for fluff, its great. I really like that.
However it means I do not have a very good army anymore as I do not have enough of any 1 god to play a mono-god list.
My collection mostly consists of
1 Greater Damon/DP of each god
1 Herald of each
1-2 units of lesser daemons of each god
12 screamers, 20 flesh hounds, 6 Beasts of Nurgle
Having to pay points is one thing, but requiring the summoner to be the same alignment throws list versatility out the window.
Worse still, in order to benefit from the boosted LD of the characters, I need to focus my forces down to 1-2 alignments
Again, for fluffy mono-god lists, this is no issue.
For a dedicated undivided player who ALWAYS takes 1-2 units for each god in EVERY game....this sucks.
I've never favored 1 god over any of the others, but if I want to take advantage of these rules, I have to at least build a list that HEAVILY features 1-2 of the same alignments.
It looks like I'll have to adapt to playing Tzeentch/Khorne because I have more of those models than the other 2
-
Your tits dude just use your herald as summoners and summon the DP/FA best for the situation
Galef wrote: Oh for fluff, its great. I really like that. However it means I do not have a very good army anymore as I do not have enough of any 1 god to play a mono-god list. My collection mostly consists of 1 Greater Damon/DP of each god 1 Herald of each 1-2 units of lesser daemons of each god 12 screamers, 20 flesh hounds, 6 Beasts of Nurgle
Having to pay points is one thing, but requiring the summoner to be the same alignment throws list versatility out the window. Worse still, in order to benefit from the boosted LD of the characters, I need to focus my forces down to 1-2 alignments
Again, for fluffy mono-god lists, this is no issue. For a dedicated undivided player who ALWAYS takes 1-2 units for each god in EVERY game....this sucks.
I've never favored 1 god over any of the others, but if I want to take advantage of these rules, I have to at least build a list that HEAVILY features 1-2 of the same alignments. It looks like I'll have to adapt to playing Tzeentch/Khorne because I have more of those models than the other 2
-
Your tits dude just use your herald as summoners and summon the DP/FA best for the situation
I never relied heavily on summoning in 7E anyway, summoning only 1 unit per turn at most. But the flexibility was nice. What I am most upset about is that fact that Daemons have average LD, yet will die faster than Marines and *poof* when it comes time to roll Morale The only way we know of so far to mitigate this is to have a Daemon Character <of the same alignment> within 6" to give them better LD. My typical list has Tzeentch Characters and the rest of the army is Khorne, Nurgle and some Slaanesh. So yeah, no LD bonus for me unless I dramatically change my list (which GW said I wouldn't have to do).
Luckily, I do have at least 2 Characters of each god, so hopefully it won't be so bad. With DPs being characters with 10 wounds, they cannot be targeted (unless Monster overrides that ) Hopefully, these changes make Daemons cheaper so more can be taken to represent a true daemonic incursion. It would be the only reason to nerf then this bad.
-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 02:33:49
Also,I heard that Primaris Marines were getting stomped left and right at Warhammer fest.
Yeah, they're not that good.
they're better then Marines sure, but proably not quite better eneugh.
I think the important thing to note is that they are much better than before. They seem about the same price now as Tactical Marines, have Str5 all the time, get to attack twice and let's not forget they get extra attacks on 6s. They can also take Axes for that sweet AP -1 too.
Are they great? probably not, but they are finally an appealing unit.
Also,I heard that Primaris Marines were getting stomped left and right at Warhammer fest.
Yeah, they're not that good.
they're better then Marines sure, but proably not quite better eneugh.
I think the important thing to note is that they are much better than before. They seem about the same price now as Tactical Marines, have Str5 all the time, get to attack twice and let's not forget they get extra attacks on 6s. They can also take Axes for that sweet AP -1 too.
Are they great? probably not, but they are finally an appealing unit.
-
I was refering to PrimarisMarines although in retrospect from what I've heard I wonder if it's more that the lord of contagion is just THAT good.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Galef wrote: Oh for fluff, its great. I really like that.
However it means I do not have a very good army anymore as I do not have enough of any 1 god to play a mono-god list.
My collection mostly consists of
1 Greater Damon/DP of each god
1 Herald of each
1-2 units of lesser daemons of each god
12 screamers, 20 flesh hounds, 6 Beasts of Nurgle
Having to pay points is one thing, but requiring the summoner to be the same alignment throws list versatility out the window.
Worse still, in order to benefit from the boosted LD of the characters, I need to focus my forces down to 1-2 alignments
Again, for fluffy mono-god lists, this is no issue.
For a dedicated undivided player who ALWAYS takes 1-2 units for each god in EVERY game....this sucks.
I've never favored 1 god over any of the others, but if I want to take advantage of these rules, I have to at least build a list that HEAVILY features 1-2 of the same alignments.
It looks like I'll have to adapt to playing Tzeentch/Khorne because I have more of those models than the other 2
-
Your tits dude just use your herald as summoners and summon the DP/FA best for the situation
I never relied heavily on summoning in 7E anyway, summoning only 1 unit per turn at most. But the flexibility was nice.
What I am most upset about is that fact that Daemons have average LD, yet will die faster than Marines and *poof* when it comes time to roll Morale
The only way we know of so far to mitigate this is to have a Daemon Character <of the same alignment> within 6" to give them better LD.
My typical list has Tzeentch Characters and the rest of the army is Khorne, Nurgle and some Slaanesh. So yeah, no LD bonus for me unless I dramatically change my list (which GW said I wouldn't have to do).
Luckily, I do have at least 2 Characters of each god, so hopefully it won't be so bad. With DPs being characters with 10 wounds, they cannot be targeted (unless Monster overrides that )
Hopefully, these changes make Daemons cheaper so more can be taken to represent a true daemonic incursion. It would be the only reason to nerf then this bad.
-
Unfortunately, I think the Prices will be targetable as it's 10 or more.
whembly wrote: Unfortunately, I think the Prices will be targetable as it's 10 or more
Be'lakor has 8. He can hide just fine.
Indeed he does!
Kinda strange for the first (oldest?) daemon prince to have less wounds than the standard Daemon Prince... eh?
The Warhammer Community article on characters says it "applies to all Characters with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or less". So unless 'Monster' negates this (which is sadly likely) DPs are not targetable since they have 10 wounds, not more.
The only reason I can think of for Belakor being a bit wimpier than other DPs is because he was the first and imbued with each gods' power (which can be at odds with each other) Further DPs get more of their Patrons power, thus can be more durable.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 03:20:12
whembly wrote: Unfortunately, I think the Prices will be targetable as it's 10 or more
Be'lakor has 8. He can hide just fine.
Indeed he does!
Kinda strange for the first (oldest?) daemon prince to have less wounds than the standard Daemon Prince... eh?
The Warhammer Community article on characters says it "applies to all Characters with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or less".
So unless 'Monster' negates this (which is sadly likely) DPs are not targetable since they have 10 wounds, not more.
Well then... I stand corrected.
The only reason I can think of for Belakor being a bit wimpier than other DPs is because he was the first and imbued with each gods' power (which can be at odds with each other)
Further DPs get more of their Patrons power, thus can be more durable.
-
whembly wrote: Unfortunately, I think the Prices will be targetable as it's 10 or more
Be'lakor has 8. He can hide just fine.
Indeed he does!
Kinda strange for the first (oldest?) daemon prince to have less wounds than the standard Daemon Prince... eh?
The Warhammer Community article on characters says it "applies to all Characters with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or less".
So unless 'Monster' negates this (which is sadly likely) DPs are not targetable since they have 10 wounds, not more.
The only reason I can think of for Belakor being a bit wimpier than other DPs is because he was the first and imbued with each gods' power (which can be at odds with each other)
Further DPs get more of their Patrons power, thus can be more durable.
-
Well it's that or maybe Bel'akor's just suffering from some frailty in his old age
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Galef wrote: Oh for fluff, its great. I really like that.
However it means I do not have a very good army anymore as I do not have enough of any 1 god to play a mono-god list.
My collection mostly consists of
1 Greater Damon/DP of each god
1 Herald of each
1-2 units of lesser daemons of each god
12 screamers, 20 flesh hounds, 6 Beasts of Nurgle
Having to pay points is one thing, but requiring the summoner to be the same alignment throws list versatility out the window.
Worse still, in order to benefit from the boosted LD of the characters, I need to focus my forces down to 1-2 alignments
Again, for fluffy mono-god lists, this is no issue.
For a dedicated undivided player who ALWAYS takes 1-2 units for each god in EVERY game....this sucks.
I've never favored 1 god over any of the others, but if I want to take advantage of these rules, I have to at least build a list that HEAVILY features 1-2 of the same alignments.
It looks like I'll have to adapt to playing Tzeentch/Khorne because I have more of those models than the other 2
-
Your tits dude just use your herald as summoners and summon the DP/FA best for the situation
I never relied heavily on summoning in 7E anyway, summoning only 1 unit per turn at most. But the flexibility was nice.
What I am most upset about is that fact that Daemons have average LD, yet will die faster than Marines and *poof* when it comes time to roll Morale
The only way we know of so far to mitigate this is to have a Daemon Character <of the same alignment> within 6" to give them better LD.
My typical list has Tzeentch Characters and the rest of the army is Khorne, Nurgle and some Slaanesh. So yeah, no LD bonus for me unless I dramatically change my list (which GW said I wouldn't have to do).
Luckily, I do have at least 2 Characters of each god, so hopefully it won't be so bad. With DPs being characters with 10 wounds, they cannot be targeted (unless Monster overrides that )
Hopefully, these changes make Daemons cheaper so more can be taken to represent a true daemonic incursion. It would be the only reason to nerf then this bad.
-
What they might do is apply the Udead rule from AoS to them. Bigger the unit the better the LD attack and save and icons that return models on battleshock tests of 1
I also just noticed a few things.
1) DPs don't degrade when wounded. I think that goes hand in hand with the 10 wounds bit. Either you have 10 wound or less and can hide (if Character) or you cannot hide and get downgraded when you lose half or more wounds
2) There isn't anything in the Core rules or bespoke rules that says 'Monster' allows Characters to be targeted. I think the keyword only exists for special rules the call out "Monster"
So yay! DPs can hide behind units. I guess I'll be using the Tetrad in 8E
Galef wrote: I also just noticed a few things.
1) DPs don't degrade when wounded. I think that goes hand in hand with the 10 wounds bit. Either you have 10 wound or less and can hide (if Character) or you cannot hide and get downgraded when you lose half or more wounds
2) There isn't anything in the Core rules or bespoke rules that says 'Monster' allows Characters to be targeted. I think the keyword only exists for special rules the call out "Monster"
So yay! DPs can hide behind units. I guess I'll be using the Tetrad in 8E
Sounds right to me but wont know till they put out all the rules.
lord_blackfang wrote: Summoning looks terribad if you pay points, it's just a much worse deep strike. And of course totally OP if you don't pay points. Fail either way.
the advantage over deep strike is you don't need to specify what it is.
if I'm playing space Marines, I pay x numebr of points for an assault marine squad and use my assault marine squad to deep strike.
with summoning deamons however I pas x number of points and summon any unit that costs X (or a fraction thereof) it's an advantage in that you can legally tailor your list to bring in something you need.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
)
although in retrospect from what I've heard I wonder if it's more that the lord of contagion is just THAT good.
