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Darsath wrote:
What he said was in relation to your specific example. Not on Xenos as a whole, as their performance doesn't relate to increased product releases anyways.

You'll have to understand I'm not trying to be rude here. Don't get me wrong, I can't tell you how many times I've watched a friend glue together some Finecast eldar because the models need an update. Or how I've shrugged at Necrons for years because they're the most boring army out there. And Orks need to be scarier and have more goodies...

But the whole "They would sell better if they had good rules" is an excuse I've heard time and time again. It's plain and simple that GW sells more Imperium and Chaos. I wish it were not so, but even with Imperium there's a lot of people who like it- so GW, being a company and not a public service, I can't fault them for going after the money.

"They have lousy rules" is an excuse I've heard for why Sisters never sold, even though I've watched competent players mop the floor with Marines and even Guard and Eldar using Sisters of Battle.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Darsath wrote:
What he said was in relation to your specific example. Not on Xenos as a whole, as their performance doesn't relate to increased product releases anyways.

You'll have to understand I'm not trying to be rude here. Don't get me wrong, I can't tell you how many times I've watched a friend glue together some Finecast eldar because the models need an update. Or how I've shrugged at Necrons for years because they're the most boring army out there. And Orks need to be scarier and have more goodies...

But the whole "They would sell better if they had good rules" is an excuse I've heard time and time again. It's plain and simple that GW sells more Imperium and Chaos. I wish it were not so, but even with Imperium there's a lot of people who like it- so GW, being a company and not a public service, I can't fault them for going after the money.

"They have lousy rules" is an excuse I've heard for why Sisters never sold, even though I've watched competent players mop the floor with Marines and even Guard and Eldar using Sisters of Battle.

My issue isn't with that, but more on your focus on Xenos 'as a whole' perform well applies to a single specific faction with a low playrate is obscene.

To stay on topic though guys, do you think there will be something else coming with this release? Possibly a new campaign to disappoint us all?

Darsath wrote:
To stay on topic though guys, do you think there will be something else coming with this release? Possibly a new campaign to disappoint us all?

Right on the heels of the last one?

I doubt it. To be honest, "Warhammer/WH40k Campaign" as words just translate over to "Advertising Campaign" to me. I didn't care about the last one.

I honestly -hope- that there's more to this than Custodes, I really do.

I think the message isn't cryptic enough to be Necron, or propagandacized to be Tau. Plus, a simple codex reveal isn't big news anymore.

A bit dissapointing if it's just Gold Marines, but from an opponent perspective, more power armor close combat armies are okay in my book. People always complain there's too much shooting and not enough importance on CC.

I feel like its necrons since they are done sleeping but no sleep references would make me lean towards either ynarri the way gw releases soup based codexes. My order of predictions for their announcement. Rumour is also emperors children havent seen anyone post it.

1. custodes/ xenos hunters

2. Necrons

3. ynarri

4. Tau

5. Orks

4. New race( they still have yet to release all codexes.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Darsath wrote:
To stay on topic though guys, do you think there will be something else coming with this release? Possibly a new campaign to disappoint us all?

Right on the heels of the last one?

I doubt it. To be honest, "Warhammer/WH40k Campaign" as words just translate over to "Advertising Campaign" to me. I didn't care about the last one.

I honestly -hope- that there's more to this than Custodes, I really do.

Yeah, there's hopefully more to the release to warrant the grandeur. As with the campaigns, Games Workshop have said they would be doing another one, and even though I don't really care for them, it would be a good idea in a business sense to do a campaign after Christmas to get people spending.

Darsath wrote:
Yeah, there's hopefully more to the release to warrant the grandeur. As with the campaigns, Games Workshop have said they would be doing another one, and even though I don't really care for them, it would be a good idea in a business sense to do a campaign after Christmas to get people spending.

It's true. You'd think.

Honestly, I'm rather hoping we'll see an Inquisition codex soon. And I see absolutely no reason to give Deathwatch their own Codex.

Darsath wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Anecdotal, but for all the people I see bellowing about Xenos armies... I can sit here and tell you that since their release in the various cities I've been to, the 'New Xenos' Army Genestealer Cults? I've seen ONE person playing them.

And AdMech isn't much better, even though it's also 'not Space Marines'.

It's almost as if Space Marines sell.

Yeah, I don't think Genestealer Cults are very popular. Though, I thought it was a mistake to make them a full army.

Other Xenos factions like Tau and Orks are plenty popular though, so...

On the contrary, Genestealer Cults were fairly popular. They just had a bit of a wait time between the Deathwatch: Overkill set and the actual release that kinda/sorta dampened it down.

When one factors in that it's still an incomplete range(no way to get Aberrants outside of Overkill) and that causes issues. Not to mention that they don't have a Codex yet for 8th which is another factor. There was a time when they released that various kits(Neophytes and Acolytes specifically) were in/out of stock within minutes whenever the webstore would get restocked.

It's also worth mentioning that GSC were a pretty late release for 7th and lack a "Start Collecting" set, which has been a fairly major driver for factions since their introduction. Being able to save big money on specific kits that cost a lot goes a long way towards making something popular.

So how long until the open day opens its doors?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Darsath wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Anecdotal, but for all the people I see bellowing about Xenos armies... I can sit here and tell you that since their release in the various cities I've been to, the 'New Xenos' Army Genestealer Cults? I've seen ONE person playing them.

And AdMech isn't much better, even though it's also 'not Space Marines'.

It's almost as if Space Marines sell.

Yeah, I don't think Genestealer Cults are very popular. Though, I thought it was a mistake to make them a full army.

Other Xenos factions like Tau and Orks are plenty popular though, so...

On the contrary, Genestealer Cults were fairly popular. They just had a bit of a wait time between the Deathwatch: Overkill set and the actual release that kinda/sorta dampened it down.

When one factors in that it's still an incomplete range(no way to get Aberrants outside of Overkill) and that causes issues. Not to mention that they don't have a Codex yet for 8th which is another factor. There was a time when they released that various kits(Neophytes and Acolytes specifically) were in/out of stock within minutes whenever the webstore would get restocked.

It's also worth mentioning that GSC were a pretty late release for 7th and lack a "Start Collecting" set, which has been a fairly major driver for factions since their introduction. Being able to save big money on specific kits that cost a lot goes a long way towards making something popular.

Yeah, who would think that making a faction affordable and have good rules would make them popular... *Looks at the Fyreslayers*
GSC could easy have the same for them. They just need good (Or even better! Ultra OP rules!) and a good SC! to BOOM in popularity, as you said.

I think they will be opening doors about 6 hours and 15 minutes after this post.

Well it will all be over when I wake up for better or worse. I'm hoping that there really is more coming. Anything for any xenos even dumb craftworld eldar would be welcome.

So is it just Custodes, 'cause if that's the leak that's kinda sad. I'd be expecting something more earth shattering than "Here's a full range of models for something we kinda released at the end of 7th!".

Guys, I am almost done decoding what the “BIG” announcement will be.....

Be...sure to....drink your Ovaltine...

...

Median Trace wrote:
Guys, I am almost done decoding what the “BIG” announcement will be.....

Be...sure to....drink your Ovaltine...

...

That's what you bought a $55.00 Games Workshop Decoder Ring for.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

Darsath wrote:
What he said was in relation to your specific example. Not on Xenos as a whole, as their performance doesn't relate to increased product releases anyways.

You'll have to understand I'm not trying to be rude here. Don't get me wrong, I can't tell you how many times I've watched a friend glue together some Finecast eldar because the models need an update. Or how I've shrugged at Necrons for years because they're the most boring army out there. And Orks need to be scarier and have more goodies...

But the whole "They would sell better if they had good rules" is an excuse I've heard time and time again. It's plain and simple that GW sells more Imperium and Chaos. I wish it were not so, but even with Imperium there's a lot of people who like it- so GW, being a company and not a public service, I can't fault them for going after the money.

"They have lousy rules" is an excuse I've heard for why Sisters never sold, even though I've watched competent players mop the floor with Marines and even Guard and Eldar using Sisters of Battle.

In 8th? Yeah. In other editions? No. SoB in 7th would never kill a single model against a halfway competent eldar player.

And as for your little armchair economist shtick, the only people who are 'imperium' players are tournament players with soup lists. Space wolf players could give a gak about blood angels who don't care about dark angels who aren't interested in codex marines who don't give a crap about astra militarum who aren't interested in SoB who are super bored with grey knights who are only vaguely curious about the inquisition.

I would put money that Grey Knights and Dark Angels sell closer to Harlequins than Ultramarines. In fact, I would say that if GW only went with the line that sells the numerical best going forward, we'd only see Codex: Space Marine products ever again going forward.

Yeah I'm sure Dark Angels, the guys with a force in the starter of two editions are closer to Harlequins than Ultramarines.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes I.e. who watches the watchers (loose translation) would suggest custodes being the hinted at faction. For those still holding out hope for a xenos release.

Apologies if that has already come up in the last 12 pages.

JSG wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
I know Galas. If there’s not one mention of xenos getting something other than codices tomorrow I’m leaving GW for good and swapping entirely to kingdom death. It will be clear they don’t want xenos around anymore.

Talk about jumping from the frying pan and into the fire!

I feel sorry for KoD tbh.

Obviously it's Sly Marbo's extended family...

JSG wrote:
Talk about jumping from the frying pan and into the fire!

What's happening with Kingdom Death to cause this reaction?

 Gamgee wrote:
I know Galas. If there’s not one mention of xenos getting something other than codices tomorrow I’m leaving GW for good and swapping entirely to kingdom death. It will be clear they don’t want xenos around anymore.

No you won't. Stop being dramatic.

Darsath wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Anecdotal, but for all the people I see bellowing about Xenos armies... I can sit here and tell you that since their release in the various cities I've been to, the 'New Xenos' Army Genestealer Cults? I've seen ONE person playing them.

And AdMech isn't much better, even though it's also 'not Space Marines'.

It's almost as if Space Marines sell.

Yeah, I don't think Genestealer Cults are very popular. Though, I thought it was a mistake to make them a full army.

Other Xenos factions like Tau and Orks are plenty popular though, so...

I personally thought Cults was gonna be broken to the point I started incorporating Flamers in a bunch of my lists. I called everything else, and if 7th continued as it did, they would've been a HUGE tournament army.

Good thing I haven't built my Custodes yet if their codex is about to drop!

ERJAK wrote:
In 8th? Yeah. In other editions? No. SoB in 7th would never kill a single model against a halfway competent eldar player.

Riiight. I'm just going to assume you're trolling.

ERJAK wrote:
And as for your little armchair economist shtick...

It's not being an 'Armchair Economist'. It's simple observation that any idiot can figure out. And if you've played the game for more than one edition, it's pretty obvious.

ERJAK wrote:
... the only people who are 'imperium' players are tournament players with soup lists.

[citation needed]

I'm not sure how you managed it, but literally everything you posted was wrong. Like, in no realm could a human being possibly be this wrong by accident, it's almost like you approached this post and said, "You know what? I wanna say the most incorrect thing I can possibly say."

And you did that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So is it just Custodes, 'cause if that's the leak that's kinda sad. I'd be expecting something more earth shattering than "Here's a full range of models for something we kinda released at the end of 7th!".

Don't be silly. This won't be anything like a full range. Just a couple boxes of random weapon-swaps and a vehicle or two.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

But the whole "They would sell better if they had good rules" is an excuse I've heard time and time again. It's plain and simple that GW sells more Imperium and Chaos. I wish it were not so, but even with Imperium there's a lot of people who like it- so GW, being a company and not a public service, I can't fault them for going after the money.

"They have lousy rules" is an excuse I've heard for why Sisters never sold, even though I've watched competent players mop the floor with Marines and even Guard and Eldar using Sisters of Battle.

I don't know if you remember, but Tau and Eldar sold really well in the beginning of 6th and Eldar again in 7th. What changed you might ask? They got really strong rules. To be fair it meant that certain boxes sold more than others(Wave Serpents, Warp Spiders, Bikes), but the armies sold really well. They sold much more than in previous edition due to finally being useful.

Also, there are two factors regarding the Sisters of Battle you can't really ignore one while arguing the other. SoB can be used, but that doesn't change the fact that they are the most expensive(and heaviest) army out there. Hell, I'd say SoB have four things against it which is why only the most ardent fan owns them:

Rules aren't really that much

Expensive army

Metal only except for Celestine and that resin gal

Only Direct Order which tends to both exclude a lot of players as well as increase the price of an already expensive army

These things all count.

Regarding Imperium and Chaos selling well I think it would be more correct to say that Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines sell well, and not other parts of Imperium or Chaos, and I would even say that only Space Marines sell well. The reason for that? Space Marines have been a part of every Boxed Set(Starting boxes, Unique boxes like HH and Overkill, Megaforces) so far that it is nigh impossible to avoid having Space Marines. The market is oversaturated with Space Marines making them the easiest army to collect and start playing with so of course they sell well. Hell, I have around 7.000 points of Dark Angels(I am really bad at getting rid of stuff that comes my way) and I have played them just under 10 times in my life as I am mostly a Xenos army. Space Marines are like herpes; They are everywhere.

With regards not seeing many stealer cults, some of their units are still not available separately and hybrids are £25 for 5 dudes that are what 15ish points a head. They priced that army too highly is a large chunk of its relative exclusivity.

Uu if we also get plastic jetbikes etc...if i can use them in 30k better learn to love painting with liquid gold! Love result, touhg one to paint

What really annoys me is that we have a perfectly decent sized Custodes force if you include all the FW models, but they will insist on seperating the two ranges.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

But the whole "They would sell better if they had good rules" is an excuse I've heard time and time again. It's plain and simple that GW sells more Imperium and Chaos. I wish it were not so, but even with Imperium there's a lot of people who like it- so GW, being a company and not a public service, I can't fault them for going after the money.

"They have lousy rules" is an excuse I've heard for why Sisters never sold, even though I've watched competent players mop the floor with Marines and even Guard and Eldar using Sisters of Battle.

To be fair Doritos, you're misinterpreting what he actually said. He didn't say "they would sell better if they had good rules".

He said that GW release new, awesome looking models but their rules are often times garbage so the models don't get purchased (see Mork/Gorkanaut last edition).

He also said that GW release new, awesome models but their prices are so obscene in comparison to their in game points cost that they don't sell (see Mek guns).

Even this isn't enough to put some people off, who have still purchased a Morkanaut and Gorkanaut despite their effectiveness being much worse than other, cheaper (in real money) options. Good models will sell regardless but they will really sell if they are playable.

Back to the topic, I think many are now resigned to a custodes release only so if we get anything more it'll be a bonus. The doors will open and we'll know soon enough.