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HQ
Avatar-155

Farseer-130
Doom
Mind War
Both Runes

Troops
Dire Avengers-152
10 w/exarch
Cats, Bladestorm

Dire Avengers-152
10 w/exarch
Cats, Bladestorm

Rangersx5-95

Heavy Support
Wraithlord-155
2 Flamer EML/BL

Fire prism 150

Total:984

Please comment with any tips or suggestions

This is not a bad list.

Things to consider:

Swap the Mind War on your Farseer to be fortune, up the surviavability of your avatar.

Fire Prisms work better in pairs, so I would swap it for another Wraith Lord, 3 MC's at this point level are hard to deal with.

The way to get those points is to do one of the following:

Drop the second power on your farseer (i noticed he is missing stones for the second power anyway). Keep fortune.

Swap the one dire avenger squad for a Guardian/Storm Guardian squad.

I like this list, this is how I as going to do mine!
And instead of the Fire Prism, go for a WS as you can put your dive avengeres in it and get them in closer more safly!

Personally I'd try and get the spare 20pts needed to upgrade the 5 rangers to pathfinders, if for no other reason that it doubles your chances of getting an AP 1 shot. The scout move is also handy to move them to a better spot without waisting a turn of shooting (either so they can't get hit or so they can line up that important target from the get go). You also have to love the +2 cover in forest.

If you wanted a really mean list I'd:

Drop the Prism
Drop the weapons on the Lord for a Wraithsword + Flamers
Get 2 more of the lords I suggested (100 points each).

That gives you 30 points (I think) to spare in a 1000 point list with 4 MC's I'd suggest replacing Mind War with Fortune and adding spirit stones.

Its a decent build...cant really think of any suggestions

You are low on threat and high on squishy at the moment. Walking Dire Avengers are dead, someone will just heavy flame them turn 1. That leaves you with 2 large targets with no fortune as your only threat and they are then easy to deal with.

Running a 3 or 4 MC list at this point level would work well in annihilation but you're still screwed on objectives. Your troops are just far to easy to kill.

For me this type of list needs to be saved for higher points games when you can get Wraithguard as your troops. Even then it has severe issues. The MCs aren't as strong with the prevalence of pioson these days and you're otherwise just low on body count and mobility...

FlingitNow wrote:You are low on threat and high on squishy at the moment. Walking Dire Avengers are dead, someone will just heavy flame them turn 1. That leaves you with 2 large targets with no fortune as your only threat and they are then easy to deal with.

Running a 3 or 4 MC list at this point level would work well in annihilation but you're still screwed on objectives. Your troops are just far to easy to kill.

For me this type of list needs to be saved for higher points games when you can get Wraithguard as your troops. Even then it has severe issues. The MCs aren't as strong with the prevalence of pioson these days and you're otherwise just low on body count and mobility...

I don't agree. Two dire avenger squads are good at capping objectives. If they hide behind the MC's while walking up the board they will be fine, and the rangers will be sitting on a backfield objective. They are fearless and won't break in combat with the Avatar to help them out. And considering there are 3 troops at 1000pts I don't really see how this list has an abjective problem?

I don't agree. Two dire avenger squads are good at capping objectives. If they hide behind the MC's while walking up the board they will be fine, and the rangers will be sitting on a backfield objective. They are fearless and won't break in combat with the Avatar to help them out. And considering there are 3 troops at 1000pts I don't really see how this list has an abjective problem?

Because all the troops are very easy to kill. Sitting backfield is little protection from fast and deepstriking heavy flamers. Liekwise with no fortune the 2 MCs are easy to deal with for plentry of armies particularly with the prevailence pioson these days. On top of that fearless actually makes the DAs and Rangers more squishy in CC as with their high I they have less to fear from sweeping advance than they do from combat res...

This is 1000 pts, you won't be throwing your DA's into the fray. If you are then it's a mistake. Play them tactically use them to shoot stuff and not assault stuff. Please tell me which is a tougher troop choice for the eldar?

This is a foot list so adding a wave serpent for survivability doesn't actually serve the list.

This is 1000 pts, you won't be throwing your DA's into the fray. If you are then it's a mistake. Play them tactically use them to shoot stuff and not assault stuff. Please tell me which is a tougher troop choice for the eldar?

This is a foot list so adding a wave serpent for survivability doesn't actually serve the list.

But stuff will assault them and heavy flame them. They will die very quickly to any decent Vanilla Marine list or any quick assault list. The list has very squishy troops with no mobility to keep them alive and no viable ninja option should you go 2nd to a quick list.

Wraithguard are a tougher troops choice. So are Guardian Jetbikes. So is anything in a Wave Serpent.

If you're going down the footlist route you need to be taking Wraithguard as your troops and at this point level you can't afford that. I'd expect any decent list to table this army most games.

Ok so let's check. Low points. No Wraithguard. Foot List. No Wave Serpents.

Back at square one, SOME type of troop on foot. The list isn't spectacular, but for the concept there is no better choice than Dire Avengers and Pathfinders.

Back at square one, SOME type of troop on foot. The list isn't spectacular, but for the concept there is no better choice than Dire Avengers and Pathfinders.

Yes for the concept of losing most games there is no better option than DA and Pathfinders. Eldar don't do footlists well and at 1000 points their footlists are terrible always.

I should have posted this last night, but the reason the Seer has mind war is that I'm using this in tournament at my flgs

Missions:

Round 1 - Seize Ground w/ 3 Objectives - Spearhead
Round 2 - Capture and Control - Dawn of War
Round 3 - Annihilation - Pitched Battle
Round 4 - Assassination - Nominate one HQ Independent Character model as the General (Imperial Guard may nominate either an IC or a Company Command squad), game ends upon complete turn end following first General's death (if a General dies in the top of turn 3 then play continues until bottom of turn 3, possible tie for death of both Generals) - Spearhead, HQ cannot be in Reserve except for Chaos Daemons which have no choice due to their specific deployment rules

Mind war works in round 4

also I've been testing this and I haven't lost any of the 5 games Ive played. Ive tabled opponents 3 times.

So how do you intend for your Farseer to actually get into mindwar range?

Mindwar really isn't that great for dealing with HQs, in general it is better for sniping special weapons and upgrade characters from units.

I think it's very slow i wouldn't use the avatar and fire prism for a 1000pts game... try upgrading the rangers to pathfinders, and get at least one wave serpent and or falcon with an "real" aspect

What I would like to know is how this list intends to deal with gun lines, Land Raiders or otherwise fully meched up lists. You have a Brightlance/EML that have to fire at one target, a Prism, and a Melta shot from the Avatar as your anti-tank. That's not a whole lot and anyone with enough Missile Launchers can put down your Wraithlord and your Avatar without much difficulty. Additionaly your Prism is not that accurate without a second Prism to link and allow a reroll. Space Wolves will stomp you flat and there isn't really a whole lot you can do about it, and just about anything meched up will run circles around your infantry.

Infantry Eldar are not so great in 5th edition, even with an Avatar, but if you play a mixed list with a couple of meched up squads in Wave Serpents I think you will find more of your bases covered. I've had some decent success with an Avatar, a pinning Dire Avenger unit (PW/SS and Defend), and a large unit of Scorpions on the ground with Fire Dragons and Dire Avengers or Storm Guardians in the air.

Avatar - 155
Farseer (Doom, Runes of Warding) - 95
5 Fire Dragons - 80
-Wave Serpent (TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones) - 110
8 Striking Scorpions (Exarch, Claw, Stalker) - 160
10 Storm Guardians (Warlock w/ Destructor, 2x Flamer) - 127
-Wave Serpent (TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones) - 110
10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, PW/SS, Defend) - 162
Total 999

This list works a lot better at 1,500 but I've played it at 1k and had some success. The Storm Guardians put out as much or more firepower as Dire Avengers at close range and with Doom they can do some serious damage. The Scorpions make for an excellent counter-assault unit using the Dire Avengers as bait. I've had that unit of Dire Avengers hold up Assault Terminators long enough for the Scorpions and the Avatar to finish with their targets and bail them out.

You do have a choice though. You can take Fortune on the Farseer and drop Stalker from the Scorpions, which lets you run the Seer on foot with the Dire Avengers making them even tougher, or you can keep it as is and run him with the Storm Guardians to Doom their target.

Either way the list has more light AT for use against Rhinos and the like, and a unit capable of dealing with a Land Raider or other tough vehicles.

Just my thoughts.

Aldarionns list looks far more viable. I'd still suggest going all mech for wraithwall (the later meaning at least 1500 points). His points are all solid too and I agree with pretty much everything he's said.

"Space Wolves will stomp you flat and there isn't really a whole lot you can do about it"


How true this is, although it has little to do with his list. Space pups annoy me greatly.. Then again.. so do Blood Angels.. or any other power armor can-heads that aren't vanilla marines.

Anyways, to contribute to the OP.

HQ
Avatar-155

Farseer-130
Doom
Mind War
Both Runes

Troops
Dire Avengers-152
10 w/exarch
Cats, Bladestorm

Dire Avengers-152
10 w/exarch
Cats, Bladestorm

Rangersx5-95

Heavy Support
Wraithlord-155
2 Flamer EML/BL

Fire prism 150





Playing this list is risky, but I see what you are trying to do. Positioning is going to be your biggest challenge. Why the most advanced race in the galaxy decides to give their dying species guns with a 12 inch range is beyond me, but thats what you've got to work with. Killing a general is great and wonderful, but you should be doing that by unit attrition, not Mind War. Sure there's a chance you could roll a 6 to your opponents 1 and auto waste their general, but that's not really reliable at all.

I'll also be different than the others here and offer minimal changes to your list. In the area of your Farseer, he doesnt need two powers, just fortune or doom, and considering that about half your army is 1 model units, I'd rather see you run with Doom, both runes, and a Spear for more armor peircing.

Something to consider.

Your pathfinders will be weak to a DS flamer as pointed out, and if you have marines in your store, they have DSing flamers of some sort, probably a Dreadnaught, which are popular in lower points.

A possible solution to this is keeping your Wraithlord in the back near your snipers to dissuade them from dropping on you. Wraithlords will pretty reliably kill a Dread. The problem with this is that you will eventually have to choose between keeping your Avatar fortuned and taking Wraithsight tests. Obviously, if they have no DS units then this isnt an issue. I would suggest that you infiltrate your snipers somewhere that your avatars, WL and farseer will be able to meet up with them in a turn or two at latest.

In missions 2 and 3 you should actually be okay. Simply deploy rear center for table quarter fluidity and use terrain to try and shield your Prism. If the enemy has to come to you, then it should be fairly simple to use your Prism if it lives to fly over and contest another quarter. In your Annihilation mission you should at worst be able to force a draw. Mission 1 will rely a lot on you skills as a general and the opponent you play.

I see you dont have holofieds, which is fine, but dont advertise that unless asked, then be truthful.

In the "General" mission, unit preservation be damned. Bury your farseer in a DA squad, follow the Avatar / WL, and try to ID their leader. If you can, box your Farseers squad inside of your other DA squad as you go all out after their general.

Good luck with your non-cookie Eldar list. I hope it does well. I'm a fan of them. I generally run 2 Wraithlords as weapon platforms and 5 Dark Reapers in my heavy slots just to be different. It works as much as it doesn't, but I'm honest about my record posted in my sig. PM me and let me know how it goes.

-TF

Thunderfrog wrote:"Space Wolves will stomp you flat and there isn't really a whole lot you can do about it"

How true this is, although it has little to do with his list. Space pups annoy me greatly.. Then again.. so do Blood Angels.. or any other power armor can-heads that aren't vanilla marines.

As a player of both Eldar and Space Wolves, I can say that full Mech lists tend to give Space Wolves problems. They pack enough light AT to handle the Wolves vehicles, and Meltaguns from Fire Dragons do a number on Thunderwolf Cavalry or Land Raider based Blood Claw units. Additionally a lot of the power of Space Wolves comes from their Rune Priests, which are shut down very effectively by a single 15 point piece of wargear (Runes of Warding). I've done quite well using my mixed list design at 1,500 and 2,000 points against most Space Wolf and Blood Angel lists. Both are vulnerable to that style of list and the amount of firepower it can bring to the table, and both have difficulty dealing with the Avatar in melee. As it turns out, those list designs have done well against just about everything except Imperial Guard, who really require a full Mech list to be competitive against. Then again, it's my opinion that the imperial Guard codex is the most powerful codex in the game right now. Not broken exactly, but perhaps a half-tier above the rest.

I apologize I got my numbers wrong and forgot to write in that there are holo-fields on the prism. Its points come out to 155 with the field.

What other things are on the Prism? Standard, they are 115pts so, with field thats 120pts. I like the list, but it is a bit squishey.

Holofields are more than 5 points. I think they're 35 or 40.

Oh, wait sorry.

My decision now is whether to take holo's on the prism or to make the rangers into pathfinders.

Holofields, if you are only running 1 prism. You can do naked prisms at higher points with multiple tanks.

I like the OPs original list tbh.
However I would swap in fortune if possible and try and sneak in a warlock, as it stands your WLs will need to stick by the Farseer closely (wraithsight) which limits their ability to go and hunt targets (as opposed to the two of them and lock moving together themselves) and makes for a very "bunched" group of units (6 inches isnt a whole lot).
I tend to agree that dropping the FP and taking a another WL is worthwhile, despite the begrudgers I think WLs can be lethal if used well.

And imo ignore the "you need falcons/serpents" argument, I do not think you do. He isnt playing a mobile manouverable list, more a solid semi-gunline backed up with fortune/cover saves supported by MCs.
His army isnt geared to get in your face/flank, hence the whole vehicle strategy is moot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bluurgh forgot you've filled your HQ choices re: a warlock.

He only has a single WL currently. I still say he's better off using Doom and concentrating fire.

My bad, misread.

I went 2-0-2 in the tournament. I was very good at getting objectives. but i fought a BA guy with 4 kp in annihilation and only managed to get 1. Then for the assassination mission my farseer died turn 6 to a plague marine w/ PF. Next turn the WL and Avatar would have wrecked his sorcerer that had taken 2 wounds from perils. Yes he tried lashing my guys twice before learning his lesson.