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I have never faced DE but i hear a lot about them. i was just wondering what they are vulnerable too. lots of people on here say they are great against nids, MEQ etc. so what if anything are they vulnerable too.
like the title says, codex or lists pls. posts like "lots of shooting" dont help conceptualize their weakness much.

Everything. I am serious, DE will fall over easily if looked at funny.

The only reason why we win is because we empty your eye sockets before you can do that.

To elaborate, take the space marine bolter: S4 ap5. This gun wounds my guys on 3s and ignores my armor completely. If you can pump that into my evil space elves, you can win.

Our rides are just as fragile, being armor 10 all around and open topped. Autocannons are your friend here.

Essentially, avoid us in assault, we will slaughter you there! the shooting phase is our bane, take advantage of it.

DE are weak against long-range shooting. Assault cannons, autocannons, and shuriken cannons are good against raiders, and, out of sheer convenience, all DE infantry models.

It's kind of a pain because I've found myself needing these weapons JUST to handle DE, because they are a counter to more conventional play, so you need to take unconventional weapons just to handle them.

The biggest problems I've had with my de have been hordes. De have a tough time putting out the fire power to take out horde armies in the shooting phase and it can be difficult to knock out large numbers in combat. 5 incubi work wonders against a squad of 10 marines, not so much against 20+ boyz.

Also, any gun with a strength of 6+ seem to dismantle my army fast.

Just my 2 cents.

Hordes seem to be pretty easy. Venoms will blow through them and the Razorwings can take out 20 boy squads in a single turn. At the very least you can lower their size until our cc guys can easily handle them.

Massive amounts of armored things stops me every time. you put out enough Chimeras or Rhinos and it is nearly hopeless. If I have to use my dark lances and blasters to get to the troops who are holding all the objectives then I can't use my lances on your heavy support or models. This means those things destroy my transports meaning my troops get rocked by the things I didn't blow up last turn when I was focusing on all of your other tank crap. Guard really is the bane of the Dark Eldar.

If you have bolters to spare, shoot the transports with them too. My Noise Marines reliably down Raiders just with their Sonic Blasters (S4).

i just watched the only local DE player dissemble a space wolf player and two different space marine players. one gaem ended on turn three. it just seems like they have a pretty hard to beat dex. I am not looking forward to facing them, this much is certain.

They get close fast and kill things in assault. Deny the DE their speed and close range killing power, and you have yourself a very good chance of winning.

DE that go first are a huge threat. DE that go second are a huge target.

This is the nature of the beast. With good medium to long-ranged weaponry capable of taking down armor 10 that probably has a 5+ invulnerable save, you can disable the biggest ability their army has - mobility - fairly easily.

This is the biggest thing to do. If you have the capacity to do this, you can cripple them before they begin their attack. However, with Vect seizing on 4+, you're 75% likely to go second if they take him. Once Haywire Launchers, Wyches, Ravagers, Razorwings, and Kabalites get their guns and assaults going, you're probably going to lose.

sennacherib wrote:i just watched the only local DE player dissemble a space wolf player and two different space marine players.

Brother-Thunder wrote: Deny the DE their speed and close range killing power, and you have yourself a very good chance of winning.

Seeing these two things back to back tells me one thing - the SM players in your store have NO CLUE how to use their small arms.

Basically all DE vehicles are open topped AV10, which fall apart like cardboard against bolter fire. Likewise, no infantry model has better than a 5+ save, and bolters are Ap5. With the exception of their HQ units, boltguns are able to handle the entire DE codex single-handedly.

Of course, that requires you to know how to use bolters, and to actually take a sufficient number of them. If your list is like most SM lists - minimizing troops so that you can take as many fancy vehicle-based toys as possible - things are probably going to be tough for you too.

Ailaros wrote:

sennacherib wrote:i just watched the only local DE player dissemble a space wolf player and two different space marine players.

Brother-Thunder wrote: Deny the DE their speed and close range killing power, and you have yourself a very good chance of winning.

Seeing these two things back to back tells me one thing - the SM players in your store have NO CLUE how to use their small arms.

Basically all DE vehicles are open topped AV10, which fall apart like cardboard against bolter fire. Likewise, no infantry model has better than a 5+ save, and bolters are Ap5. With the exception of their HQ units, boltguns are able to handle the entire DE codex single-handedly.

Of course, that requires you to know how to use bolters, and to actually take a sufficient number of them. If your list is like most SM lists - minimizing troops so that you can take as many fancy vehicle-based toys as possible - things are probably going to be tough for you too.

most space marine players in my store tend to suck, the best players playing DE, BA, or Nids. Also, while botlers CAN down a raider, consider a 10 man squad firing at a raider outside of rapid fire range. Assuming one brought the free flamer and ML, we have 8 shots. 5-6 will hit, 1-2 will actually glance, and if the DE player is smart, he turbo-boosted forward, having a 50% chance to ignore it. Even then, one only has a 1/6th chance to actually wreck the raider.

It can still happen, and it does more than once in a blue moon, but it is not exactly something to be relied on. I think bolters are better used on the guys who have to get out after seeing their tin can blown out of the sky by an autocannon dread or typhoon speeder. That's this Marine and DE player's two cents, though.

Actually, if he turbo-boosted, then immobilized results count as wrecked. Shooting two tac squads with missile launchers at 24" actually stands a decent chance of taking down a raider. Plus, once the raider is down, you can feast on the goo inside with ease. And that's just if you're stuck making shots outside of 12", which you're not obligated to do (remember, your opponent may move, but you also have a movement phase).

You've got to play smart, yes, but marines don't need anything more than bolters and krak grenades to be able to handle DE.

Once you can kill DE with just the basics, you should be able to do even better once you include shinier stuff. Relying on those shinys to overcome the lack of basic maneuvering by your infantry will more than likely just see you get ripped up.

Ailaros wrote:Actually, if he turbo-boosted, then immobilized results count as wrecked. Shooting two tac squads with missile launchers at 24" actually stands a decent chance of taking down a raider. Plus, once the raider is down, you can feast on the goo inside with ease. And that's just if you're stuck making shots outside of 12", which you're not obligated to do (remember, your opponent may move, but you also have a movement phase).

You've got to play smart, yes, but marines don't need anything more than bolters and krak grenades to be able to handle DE.

Once you can kill DE with just the basics, you should be able to do even better once you include shinier stuff. Relying on those shinys to overcome the lack of basic maneuvering by your infantry will more than likely just see you get ripped up.

I did forget that flat-out makes immobilization count as wrecked, so a one-third chance per bolter shot. I would still avoid getting within 12 inches of a raider without support, though. Even if you pop the tin can, the now angry space elves inside have a blade with your neck's name on it!

indeed, the secret to beating Dark Eldar is to play smart and logically.

Things DE are weak against:

Masses of Av12 (e.g chimera spam)
Massed mid range medium strength weapons (e.g multilasers, auto-cannons, assault cannons)
Lance proof AV 14 (Black Templar)

A single pain token on a unit makes them remarkably resilient against your bolter fire (Ok, so here's the cover saves that failed... now take out the succesful FNP rolls... derp) and night shields make those Bolter's max range 18", *well* within the assault range of move 12", disembark 2", fleet d6", assault 6"

If some Wracks are taken as Troops for objective holding purposes, it also diminishes the weakness against str 6&7 shooting.

The DE codex is pretty solid, with multiple ways to build and run the army that makes a definitive list of what they are vulnerable too a little dicey. Someone mentioned a problem with Hordes earlier, but DE have the ability to mass poisoned shots in such volume that it sends any foot list weeping.

So far the main thing I've seen them struggle with are masses of vehicles, like Mech Guard.

Mech Guard can be an uphill battle, but provided you know what you are doing, it should be fine.

Also, Love your name, Kroot Loops.

Also take not that a lot of DE builds rely on vehicle mounted darklances for AT fire. Once you kill their skimmers, most foot mounted DE can't really do anything to a vehicle on close combat. If they don't have hand carried blasters, you can pretty much count the game as a win if you kill all of their dark lances before they demech you.

If the opponent uses wyches they should be using haywires, so I wouldn't count DE out even if demeched.

Also a good list should have some infantry based anti tank mixed in with the skimmer based, for the obvious reason that AV 10-11 doesn't last forever.

Ailaros wrote:Actually, if he turbo-boosted, then immobilized results count as wrecked. Shooting two tac squads with missile launchers at 24" actually stands a decent chance of taking down a raider. Plus, once the raider is down, you can feast on the goo inside with ease. And that's just if you're stuck making shots outside of 12", which you're not obligated to do (remember, your opponent may move, but you also have a movement phase).

You've got to play smart, yes, but marines don't need anything more than bolters and krak grenades to be able to handle DE.

Once you can kill DE with just the basics, you should be able to do even better once you include shinier stuff. Relying on those shinys to overcome the lack of basic maneuvering by your infantry will more than likely just see you get ripped up.

Except the DE player should have night shields on everything, meaning rapidfire range is dropped to 18" single shot, and 6" two shot. If they're more than 18" away, you're not hitting them with rapidfire weapons that turn (unless you're Tau). And then they're in your face on their turn, smothering you in Wyches or Incubi. Night shields quite wonderfully confound all but a small subset of anti-tank options.

Thaylen wrote:Also take not that a lot of DE builds rely on vehicle mounted darklances for AT fire. Once you kill their skimmers, most foot mounted DE can't really do anything to a vehicle on close combat. If they don't have hand carried blasters, you can pretty much count the game as a win if you kill all of their dark lances before they demech you.

Unless their wyches are carrying haywires, or their troops have gotten a couple of pain tokens and so can glance AV10 on a 6... Or they have an incubi klaivex with demiklaives... Or an Archon Court with Sslyth and Ur-ghuls... Or Grotesques with a Haemonculus... Or Hellions (with or without pain tokens, though even more so with)... Or beastmasters with clawed fiends or razorwings... Or a Talos or Cronos... Or reavers with heat lances... Or scourges with haywire blasters...

Yep, not really any foot mounted anti-tank but blaster warriors...


In all seriousness, am I the only one who finds blaster warriors a horribly inefficient answer to anti-tank? You're paying a bare minimum of 60 points for a five model infantry unit with T3 Sv5+, for a single 18" S8 lance. That's going to be bad against armor, and just as bad against infantry, since you'll only have four splinter rifles. Trueborn blaster units are a better deal, since they're like slow, squishy ravagers with half the range for... three points more than a ravager... The only good thing about them is they take up an elite slot instead of a heavy support slot, though even there they're competing with bloodbrides (anti-horde and anti-tank all wrapped up in one neat little package) and incubi (anti-MEQ), as well as Grotesques and even Harlequins.

If you take the transport out with an explosion, you're gonna kill like half the unit inside too, so there's that.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Except the DE player should have night shields on everything, meaning rapidfire range is dropped to 18" single shot, and 6" two shot. If they're more than 18" away, you're not hitting them with rapidfire weapons that turn (unless you're Tau). And then they're in your face on their turn, smothering you in Wyches or Incubi. Night shields quite wonderfully confound all but a small subset of anti-tank options.

I don't believe this is true, as I think it only effects the max range of a weapon, so a Bolter would have a max range of 18" when shooting at a night shield equipped vehicle, but it would still rapid fire at 12". Likewise a MM would have to be within 18" to shoot the vehicle, but would still get 2d6 at 12" and under.

It's pretty much completely irrelevant regardless. 18" is well within their assault range with all the crap they can pile on their jabba barges so you never get to shoot them in the first place. Attempting any of your special stuff at a mere 12" is just laughable.

SumYungGui wrote:It's pretty much completely irrelevant regardless. 18" is well within their assault range with all the crap they can pile on their jabba barges so you never get to shoot them in the first place. Attempting any of your special stuff at a mere 12" is just laughable.

I think I said that like 6 posts ago I was just seeking to clarify.

Kroot Loops wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Except the DE player should have night shields on everything, meaning rapidfire range is dropped to 18" single shot, and 6" two shot. If they're more than 18" away, you're not hitting them with rapidfire weapons that turn (unless you're Tau). And then they're in your face on their turn, smothering you in Wyches or Incubi. Night shields quite wonderfully confound all but a small subset of anti-tank options.

I don't believe this is true, as I think it only effects the max range of a weapon, so a Bolter would have a max range of 18" when shooting at a night shield equipped vehicle, but it would still rapid fire at 12". Likewise a MM would have to be within 18" to shoot the vehicle, but would still get 2d6 at 12" and under.

And I quote "The extra distance is also counted for working out if the vehicle is in rapid fire range, half range for a melta shot, and so on." Bottom of page 63 of the DE codex, under "Night Shields". The intent for them is to in effect make the vehicle 6" farther away for the purposes of shooting at it. I assume they avoided that wording because then you'd get people trying to claim it makes them count as 6" further away when they're shooting too.

As an aside, given the "and so on" at the end, would that also make them count as 6" further away for purposes of night fighting? It seems to suggest that in any case where the distance is relevant it's increased by 6" (or rather, the potential distance is reduced by 6"), so that would seem to follow from it.

It amuses me that at the same this thread is outlining all the weaknesses of the DE, this thread is talking about how tough the DE are
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/338172.page

Another perfect example of how the skill of the army is determined by the skill of the player using the army. Every army can be unbeatable or unwillable depending on the person playing them

Night Shields and Night Fighting rules. Man, Dark Eldar would rule Dawn of War and Cities of Death.

I had no issue blasting apart my mate 1000pts army with my blood angels. Only problem I had was Lilith who butchered my assault squad and Librarian with consumate ease. Soon as she left combat though I had enough firepower to kill her and her wych sponge unit.

Almarine wrote:If you take the transport out with an explosion, you're gonna kill like half the unit inside too, so there's that.

Unless they have a pain token, either from taking a harmie, or from earning one.

Ailaros wrote:

sennacherib wrote:i just watched the only local DE player dissemble a space wolf player and two different space marine players.

Brother-Thunder wrote: Deny the DE their speed and close range killing power, and you have yourself a very good chance of winning.

Seeing these two things back to back tells me one thing - the SM players in your store have NO CLUE how to use their small arms.

Basically all DE vehicles are open topped AV10, which fall apart like cardboard against bolter fire. Likewise, no infantry model has better than a 5+ save, and bolters are Ap5. With the exception of their HQ units, boltguns are able to handle the entire DE codex single-handedly.

Of course, that requires you to know how to use bolters, and to actually take a sufficient number of them. If your list is like most SM lists - minimizing troops so that you can take as many fancy vehicle-based toys as possible - things are probably going to be tough for you too.

Dark Eldar actually do have infantry units with better than 5+ saves. Incubi have 3+, Scourges have 4+, Wracks, Hæmonculi, and Grotesques have 6+ but start with FNP (which is often better than even a 3+ save against small arms), etc. Relying on small arms to take out DE seems like wishful thinking to me-- when your full Tactical Squad double-taps out 20 bolter rounds and kills one or two guys from a Wrack squad in cover, you'll see why you're going to need other stuff to fit the bill. And while bolters certainly possess the potential to take down DE transports, the fact that you have to be in bolter range to do that makes it a less than entirely appealing option.

One thing that Dark Eldar *are* weak against, on the other hand, is walkers. While appropriately tooled Wych squads have a good chance of taking one down or at least tarpitting it for a while, most if not all other Dark Eldar units are quite weak against Dreadnoughts or even (Armored) Sentinels, as they have no special melee weapons that hurt vehicles on their squad leaders and generally rely on poison or torrents instead of high strength attacks to take down enemies in CC. Aside from a Talos/Cronos or a large Wych squad with haywire grenades and/or nets, I'm pretty sure a walker will take apart pretty much any DE unit in short order. Walkers equipped with heavy flamers can even take down the Wych squads that other walkers fear, though you have to be careful about getting too close to Wyches with FNP, against whom the flamer might not do as much as you hope.

That makes it sound as though you could feasibly get your walkers in close if they didn't want you to. They are faster than your walkers. They have a plethora of good ranged anti-tank. How then do you plan on tarpitting them with walkers, or avoiding wyches with haywire grenades? They have a possible 26" charge range, more if you consider that raiders can turn, so what's more than 26" away from the side, becomes less when they're facing you. You're not going to get the drop on them, or escape the units that can hurt you.

And wyches with haywire grenades have a very good chance of bringing down a dreadnought in two rounds of melee, and it's unlikely to explode because it's all in glancing hits. If they have shardnets too, then it has about a 20% chance of actually inflicting a single wound.