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My friend (who also plays) has a 2,500 GK army list that he's already ordered and im looking for tau tactics that will hand his ass to him. Any help?

Im thinking XV88 Broadsides to pour massed TL RG fire into his NDK s (he has ordered three)

for the infantry (he hates transports) i'm thinking i will put a large Kroot force in the front rank to hold any charge, with massed FW fire on his purifiers while my XV8s and XV25s attack his termies. Should it work?

railguns should be reserved for tanks or paladins. Instead, pump massed S5 fire into each of his Dreadknights. He has to fail his armor saves eventually...

Kroot won't last any longer then a turn.


His PA dudes will drop about as fast as regular MEQs against massed pulse fire, but if even one dude makes it into CC...


I would be VERY wary with your suits. if he gets into CC, your suits are dead. his force weapons will KO a suit with each unsaved wound(assuming you take shields)


He might take Interceptor squads. they are jump infantry and so have an 18" threat range.


Dreadknights are a distraction. a very big scary distraction. they also might have teliporters(move as jump infantry) so they can also have an 18" assault threat range.




beware of twin Autocannon dreds. they will have 4 twinlinked Str8 shots each turn for dropping your suits and tanks.

GKs are just another Meq army, albeit with new wrinkles. Kill them like you do any other Meq army, with massed fire and AP weapons on units that stray out of cover. Mobile units are first priority for tau, so go after vehicles and jump squads first.

Concede b4 you get your models out of your Carry-Case.

...you'll save time.

Keep your distance as much as you can. Make your vehicles able to fire as if Fast and kite him while destroying vehicles/termis.

Keep your suits out of CC at all costs. Always take plasma.

Kroot will only be useful to tie up small terminator squads, or to kill henchmen. They might get a decent FC charge on Crowe, though.

Shoot the choppy ones and chop the sho....oh, Tau. Shoot the shooty ones too.

Play normally and win the game. Most GK lists that I've seen are massively disadvantaged against a well-played Tau army.

Deadshane1 wrote:Concede b4 you get your models out of your Carry-Case.

...you'll save time.

Not really. I've face and beaten GK armies b4, just i'm not entirely familiar with the new dex, and I've never faced a 2,500 pt GK army b4. The more there are, the more likely one will survive and get into CC.

Thanks for the tips about the plasma, ill probably put so PR on my XV88s. Cheapest plasma i get get, TL for 10 pts? sounds good!

Ask for clarification on exactly what unit is what on his side. There are 3 variants of PAGK and 2 of TAGK and each are a different level of threat to you

interceptors will be the ones with rods sticking out of their backpacks, they have the ability to move as jump infantry, or 30" once a game, but cant assault after. Treat them like shooty assault marines that will probably be your biggest threat. Watch for these guys trying to set up side/rear angle shots on your tanks or suit teams.

purifiers look and move like normal marines but shoot like devastators and can wipe your kroot out in 1 round of assault. You know this as tau, but do not let them get within charge range or else assume the unit they target is dead. Expect to see lots of these guys as they are super effective all around. They die just like regular marines though, so keep that in mind. These guys are a very high target priority.

strike squads are the standard tac marines. They can deep strike and have a psychic power that causes auto mishap for deep striking if you get too close to them. Basically bog standard marines as far as you are concerned (deadlier in cc but thats a moot point to tau), probably lowest threat on the totem pole.

There are normal TAGK troops, deadly as all terminators are but otherwise like the other GK units in terms of abilities. If you can get a crisis team clear LOS to rapid fire these guys, they will be a free KP for you. Otherwise think of them as hybrid shooting/assault terminators from C:SM.

Paladins on the other hand are death incarnate for you. They cost an arm and a leg each, but at 2500, your opponent will be able to field them. Super terminators with 2 wounds each, and the ability to buy an apothecary for FNP. Fusion blaster and railgun these guys asap. They are priority target #1 for your big guns. Don't waste time shooting them with anything less than plasma rifles, as they will probably just save out it.

If you've faced a daemon prince or trygon before, you've essentially faced the dreadknight. Big, scary, well armed but dies to plasma/railgun/fusion blaster fire just like the rest of them. It can shoot decently well and assault (not shocking against tau armies, I know). Beware the teleporting DK, as they move like interceptors, can do the 30" shunt and generally terrorize your backfield way faster than you'd like them to. I recommend piranha squads to get in their face and hunt them down with fusion blasters. Support fire from crisis teams to finish the job. These are the 1 unit you can safely tie up with kroot hordes without getting bent over backwards.

--

The real problem for you as I see it, is that GK effective fighting range is basically the same as Tau. Granted you have railguns, but not much else in the army fights past 30", less so for the heavier weapons you rely on for killing power. Everything of his will fire to full effect at 24". That actually out ranges your suits, and because they can move and shoot, matches the range of your FWs.

Roving piranha, crisis teams and marklight/fusionblaster stealth teams will be key to this match up. With good terrain coverage, you should be able to JSJ and take out whole squads at a time. Focusing on high priority threats and working down as always. If you get first turn, there is hope for you if you manage to destroy/immobilize enough of his transports before they are close to your side of the board.

There are actually 4 types of PAGK, people seem to forget Purgation Squads, the ones who can take 4 Special Weapons with 5 men. You should also try to blow up any Dreadnought which brings 2 autocannons to bear, they can ruin many an armies day quickly. Shoot these shooty ones quickly.

Thank all of you for your help, i think i will go RG heavy with plenty of XV25s w/FB. Bruteboss you pretty much gave me every i was looking 4 in this thread (in one post!). My saving grace will probably be that he fields very few transport, and prefers a slow, steady, co-ordinated heavy infantry phalanx, so all his units move as slow as terminators! Any good strategies for countering the assassins he likes to field? they usually end up taking out my hq/elites units early on.

I forget purgation squads because they suck

Also, OP mentioned that his opponent is going to use 3 dreadknights, that knocks normal dreads and purgation squads from being used all together. If he brings venerable dreads and DKs to this fight, my money is on tau to win it as he will have dropped so many points into those units (and the HQ to make them run) that he'll have very little left over to fill out the rest of the army.

Edit: just saw your new post. Here's the good and bad of footslogging GK. Good: They move a little slower and there's no need to waste heavy firepower on tanks which means more quality shots at units you really want dead. Bad: a shrouding librarian will ruin you day by giving everyone within 6" of him stealth. If there's a librarian in his army it needs to die first, no questions asked, or he will cover save far too much of your firepower for you to win. But if you use pathfinders or enough other markerlights: laugh in his face and negate his cover saves to nothing and proceed to take him apart unit by unit.

Vindicares are an annoyance that can get deadly if you give him good shooting opportunities. He has 36" range and requires LOS though. So smart movement should keep your crisis/stealth teams safe. Your vehicles should all get cover saves from dpods or moving fast, which negates his tank killing power somewhat (he's got way less than a 50% chance to pen your vehicles with cover saves). Nothing but the elite and HQ teams are really threatened by him or worth shooting. But if terrain isn't in your favor, bite the bullet and send a good shooting unit over to kill him because he can take a bit of firepower to finally bring down.

Bruteboss wrote:I forget purgation squads because they suck

Also, OP mentioned that his opponent is going to use 3 dreadknights, that knocks normal dreads and purgation squads from being used all together. If he brings venerable dreads and DKs to this fight, my money is on tau to win it as he will have dropped so many points into those units (and the HQ to make them run) that he'll have very little left over to fill out the rest of the army.

Normally yes, but with a 2,500 pts battle, he will still have more than enough GK infantry to field a good number of models.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Bruteboss wrote:I forget purgation squads because they suck

Also, OP mentioned that his opponent is going to use 3 dreadknights, that knocks normal dreads and purgation squads from being used all together. If he brings venerable dreads and DKs to this fight, my money is on tau to win it as he will have dropped so many points into those units (and the HQ to make them run) that he'll have very little left over to fill out the rest of the army.

Normally yes, but with a 2,500 pts battle, he will still have more than enough GK infantry to field a good number of models.

You would really be surprised. Based on what you have told us, he's got 1 elite slot and 3 heavies locked up already. To make a footslogging list work will likely require 200-400 points into his HQ, including the required librarian (about 200), and if he wants to bring more than 2 of his best units (purifiers and paladins), he needs either crowe (150), or Draigo (275).

GK are very costly in points, so don't be shocked if you outnumber him 3 or 4 to one with your army. It will be more like 10 to 1 if he decides to field a paladin army.

That's surprising, but awesome. 10-1? epic is the right word. Especially with all my RGs . When i heard he ordered the GK i was thinking awwwwww im gonna lose over and over and over...but now i feel like im on equal footing. TY.

Brother-Thunder wrote:railguns should be reserved for tanks or paladins. Instead, pump massed S5 fire into each of his Dreadknights. He has to fail his armor saves eventually...

this was literally my exact thought when i saw this topic "railguns!"
seriously though, it really is just normal strategy for a tau player though. if anything you have a better advantage since points on gk army go towards killing demons and psykers and you got neither.
if its termi heavy your gold with railguns, imo. im half asleep if i missed what he ordered being said somewhere i apologize.

Yeah, his army is very heavy in termies, sry tho i can' t post the list i don't remember everything, he showed me it like a week ago lol.

Remind him that he has just spent an insanely large amount of money on a bunch of plastic toys, emphasise the crisis in Japan, how many mosquito nets that money could have bought, the ever-increasing number of people being left homeless by the global recession. Remind him how many wells to provide clean, safe drinking waters that could have built in south africa. Talk about the orphans, terminally ill, elderly, impoverished that could all have been helped by just half of the impressive sum he spent on a 2500 point GK army.

While he's having the inevitable moral dilemma, he won't really be concentrating and will mess up his tactics, exploit every guilt-fuelled mistake

im2randomghgh wrote:Yeah, his army is very heavy in termies, sry tho i can' t post the list i don't remember everything, he showed me it like a week ago lol.

yea, your tau will literally force him to rely on his 5+ inv save. i cant remember ap on sub munitions atm :(. the only thing i can really say otherwise is if he has troops in a transport kill that first and formost since railgun is 1 shot can take out much more threats and risk his troops too. obviously you know that but my mind seriously just wanted to type it out

Leigen_Zero wrote:Remind him that he has just spent an insanely large amount of money on a bunch of plastic toys, emphasise the crisis in Japan, how many mosquito nets that money could have bought, the ever-increasing number of people being left homeless by the global recession. Remind him how many wells to provide clean, safe drinking waters that could have built in south africa. Talk about the orphans, terminally ill, elderly, impoverished that could all have been helped by just half of the impressive sum he spent on a 2500 point GK army.

While he's having the inevitable moral dilemma, he won't really be concentrating and will mess up his tactics, exploit every guilt-fuelled mistake

haha

Leigen_Zero wrote:Remind him that he has just spent an insanely large amount of money on a bunch of plastic toys, emphasise the crisis in Japan, how many mosquito nets that money could have bought, the ever-increasing number of people being left homeless by the global recession. Remind him how many wells to provide clean, safe drinking waters that could have built in south africa. Talk about the orphans, terminally ill, elderly, impoverished that could all have been helped by just half of the impressive sum he spent on a 2500 point GK army.

While he's having the inevitable moral dilemma, he won't really be concentrating and will mess up his tactics, exploit every guilt-fuelled mistake

When i started reading this i got kinda pissy thinking "i understand left-hand views, but this is over the top" then I read your closing line and started laughing

Kroot will be pretty useless, use heavy weapons on paladins or terminators, use pulse rifles on dreadknights and hold up amazing combat units even for a single turn with rubbish units (kroot?) so you get another turn of shooting at them afterwards, just make sure they charge you. That's pretty much it.

Sledgio wrote:Kroot will be pretty useless, use heavy weapons on paladins or terminators, use pulse rifles on dreadknights and hold up amazing combat units even for a single turn with rubbish units (kroot?) so you get another turn of shooting at them afterwards, just make sure they charge you. That's pretty much it.

WTF else would i use kroot for? 20 Kroot will hold them for 1 turn (2 if im just that lucky) and maybe inflict A SINGLE casualty while my FW run and hide.

Kroot are not useless here and in fact will buy very valuable time/space for the other units. Exactly as they do in other games. Simple rule is don't charge, rapid fire instead. If there are trees, more power to you because now your kroot have stealth (mine never seem to get any use out of that power when I played them).

Do not engage paladins or purifiers and the rest should be ok targets for kroot.

If they do nothing but infiltrate to keep scout/shunting dreadknights and interceptors away, you will have profited from them. Expect them to die but make sure it is on the opponent's turn and they will still serve the greater good.

Kroot: Infiltrate or Outflank?

Easy: infiltrate. I would rather block 30" scout moves and deep strikes with a nicely spread kroot horde in the middle of the board than wait for them to arrive turn 2-5 and have very little impact.

Your kroot are not really damage dealers here unless they magically come into contact with severely weakened PAGK units. Assaulting is still dangerous and your shooting will only net you a couple of kills at most. The point is to be a massive annoyance that protects the rest of the Tau army from harm f(or awhile).

Bruteboss wrote:Easy: infiltrate. I would rather block 30" scout moves and deep strikes with a nicely spread kroot horde in the middle of the board than wait for them to arrive turn 2-5 and have very little impact.

Your kroot are not really damage dealers here unless they magically come into contact with severely weakened PAGK units. Assaulting is still dangerous and your shooting will only net you a couple of kills at most. The point is to be a massive annoyance that protects the rest of the Tau army from harm f(or awhile).

Thanks, for the helpful post.

I will definately infiltrate them.

Make him go first, reserve fast moving items, same as what you do against a leafblower style list. That way you don't get shunt assaulted on the first turn.

I can't really force him to reserve units...

I belive that was you reserve the fast moving things.