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Problem: Termies have plasma siphon-all plasma attacks count as BS 1, so they're pretty much immune-What now?

run twinlinked?

im2randomghgh wrote:Problem: Termies have plasma siphon-all plasma attacks count as BS 1, so they're pretty much immune-What now?

RAW, I'm not actually sure it works on Tau or eldar plasma. The siphon specifies working on plasma weapons like pistols, guns and cannons, but nothing about tau plasma rifles or eldar (unsure of the name).

Now, granted its a dick move to claim that a "plasma" siphon fails to work on your "plasma" weapons. But a strict interpretation of the rules seems to say it doesn't.

Also, whether or not you allow it to work, only a xenos inquisitor can get one. So GK are limited to maximum 2 per army (if they take 2 inquisitors). That would be the squad you shoot with fusion blasters and railguns I guess.

Bruteboss wrote:
Now, granted its a dick move to claim that a "plasma" siphon fails to work on your "plasma" weapons. But a strict interpretation of the rules seems to say it doesn't.

Well, technically, they could claim almost all Tau weapons are plasma, since they're described as "turning to plasma upon impact".

Also, kinda a hard weapon to interpret, since plasma isn't a weapon type. Matt Ward, go to hell.

On the other hand it isn't, because it specifies which weapons it affects.

The issue with weapon types has come up before with melta bombs being "melta" weaponry. Technically, they aren't, because they don't have the melta special rule, they just have the word in their name. The same seems to apply to plasma rifles and the like here. They aren't "plasma" weapons because they don't have the "get's hot!" special rule. Just a name that makes them sound like it.

Bruteboss wrote:On the other hand it isn't, because it specifies which weapons it affects.

The issue with weapon types has come up before with melta bombs being "melta" weaponry. Technically, they aren't, because they don't have the melta special rule, they just have the word in their name. The same seems to apply to plasma rifles and the like here. They aren't "plasma" weapons because they don't have the "get's hot!" special rule. Just a name that makes them sound like it.

if you hit with melta bombs you get 2d6 for pen just like a melta gun, otherwise why take them over krak?

as to the tau plasma issue, they arent considered plasma weapons. they specify if it counts as melta thus making it melta, if its not specified as plasma (which i have yet to see outside of imperium and csm) its not plasma

kenzosan wrote:

Bruteboss wrote:On the other hand it isn't, because it specifies which weapons it affects.

The issue with weapon types has come up before with melta bombs being "melta" weaponry. Technically, they aren't, because they don't have the melta special rule, they just have the word in their name. The same seems to apply to plasma rifles and the like here. They aren't "plasma" weapons because they don't have the "get's hot!" special rule. Just a name that makes them sound like it.

if you hit with melta bombs you get 2d6 for pen just like a melta gun, otherwise why take them over krak?

as to the tau plasma issue, they arent considered plasma weapons. they specify if it counts as melta thus making it melta, if its not specified as plasma (which i have yet to see outside of imperium and csm) its not plasma

Nothing at all is specified as plasma, it is not a weapon type, which is why it's confusing.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Nothing at all is specified as plasma, it is not a weapon type, which is why it's confusing.

that was my point, that rule only works against imperium and csm

iv gone through faq's and no one i know has anything considered plasma. (unless someone knows of one that i missed)

However, if its weapons with Plasma in the name then it would effect T'au Plasma Rifles which is the real issue here.


they really should have had a list of weapons like

"Plasma Pistol, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Rifle, Starcannon, Bioplasma..."

Grey Templar wrote:However, if its weapons with Plasma in the name then it would effect T'au Plasma Rifles which is the real issue here.


they really should have had a list of weapons like

"Plasma Pistol, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Rifle, Starcannon, Bioplasma..."

plasma rifle im unsure about, but starcannon? whats gotta happen: we get a list of plasma weapons or they put in the faq answering what weapons count as plasma for each army

Grey Templar wrote:However, if its weapons with Plasma in the name then it would effect T'au Plasma Rifles which is the real issue here.


they really should have had a list of weapons like

"Plasma Pistol, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Rifle, Starcannon, Bioplasma..."

More consistent templating would be better than simple lists. With templating you can have new stuff come out and it slots into the rules just fine, with a list you end up having rules that don't allow for new things. Similar to the old "beast pack" rules and how new daemons didn't get there anti GK rules as a result.

This IIRC is the first time a rules has specifically mentioned plasma, so I guess they have an excuse for not having a rules template in place like melta or flamer weapons do. By keywording their abilities they could really open up future and current design space. The plasma siphon is a cool wargear, but as written is kinda sketchy.

Bring your normal list and make sure you have a nice kroot wall to keep first turn assaults away. Beyond that you should do very well, tau have an easy time killing elite armies.

Im still not sure what i'll do for 2500 pt anti-GK, but here's my 1500pt anti-GK

HQ:
O'Shaserra-175pts

Elites:
3x Fireknife-186pts
2x Deathrain + 1 w/ BC/ MP/ Multi-Tracker-156pts
3x XV25 TA-120pts

Heavy Support:
2xXV88, 1 w/ MT, 1 w/ SD-160pts
1x Railhead w/ BC, DP,TL,MT -170pts

Fast Attack:
5x Pathfinders + Mandatory Dfish w/ FD, DP-143pts

Troops:
10x Kroot Carnivores, 5x Kroot Hounds-110pts
12x FW, Shas'ui, Bonding Knife-135pts
12x FW, Shas'ui, Bonding Knife-135pts

1490 pts.

Should I basically just run a scaled-up version of this list?

Do you own piranhas? If so include them in the scaled up version. Also I think broadsides in cover will preform a little better than a hammerhead in this case. Volume of fire and accuracy are very important in this match up as you will not be given a lot of time to take units down before they reach your lines.

If I were running tau against GK, Id want a couple of big kroot units to absorb shooting and charges, at least 2 squads of piranhas for some fast harassment/cover and as many fusion blasters/plasma rifles and railguns as I could fit into the rest of the list.
Alpha striking his army unit by unit is probably the best way to bring him down. It means getting close but Tau can bring a concentration of high quality firepower down on specific targets like no other army in the game.

Use kroot and Piranha to bubble-wrap against those annoying turn 1 assaults...

Plasma Rifle + Missile Pod
Plasma Rifle + Fusion Blaster

Equip Broadsides with Plasma Rifles if your Metagame is even more power armor based...

I am not that scared of the new 3+ armor save army... it just seems more like orks in power armor to me.

Complex Nobz with Force weapons and 2+ saves, 4++, FNP

Deff Kopta is now a MC with T6 and 2+ saves

Boyz are now WS 5, S5, T3, FNP (Combat upgrades are wasted on Tau)

Burna Boyz traded flame template for transports and troop status

The thing that I fear the most as Tau is the "Oh Hai, Im in ur units killin ur Manz!" Assasin.

I've been playing against the new GK codex (GW store copy) since it arrived in store...

10 quick things I learned, that make GK not so scarey:
1. Plasma owns Dreadknight face. That 5+ invulnerable can't save him from much, and he's so huge that he basically never gets a cover save.

2. Helios configuration is disgustingly effective.

3. 20 Kroot /w 12 Hounds can tie up a dreadknight almost indefinitely. (as long as their leadership holds up).

4. Markerlights. That cover denial is key, make them take that 5+ Invulnerable instead of 4+ cover.

5. Deepstrike/Reserve/Outflank absolutely everything to avoid the draigo makes a dreadknight a scout + teleporter shunt = first turn assault.

6. Annihilation = Probably going to lose just because of the disproportionate distribution of killpoints. (You have more "soft" kill points than he has total killpoints). You basically have to play for the table.

7. Capture and Control = Prepare to tie!

8. Sieze Ground = Depending on how many objectives you roll, this is your best bet for a win. Spread the objectives out, as he probably doesn't have THAT many scoring units. Henchmen are squishy, so make those the objective holders you "go for".

9. Psycannons really don't hurt Tau that bad. Between shield drones for infantry, and the psycannons limited range.. just.. you know.. stay away from it (easy enough, honestly) and you'll be fine.

10. Railguns = No FNP, No armor save, and instant death. Great pally killers.

Terminators can't take plasma siphons, it's wargear for one of his HQ attached to the terminators. I think, but am not positive than the only unit that has plasma siphons is a Xenos inquisitor.

I think, but am not positive that the plasma siphon has a 12" range from the HQ unit, so in theory you can rapid fire plasma into his unit without penalty as long as the shooters are inside rapid fire range but >12" from HQ unit. It's a difficult and tricky shot that requires a good eye for range.

Dick move of the week sponsored by Ordos Xenos: An all terminator army with 2 plasma siphons.

Leigen_Zero wrote:Remind him that he has just spent an insanely large amount of money on a bunch of plastic toys, emphasise the crisis in Japan, how many mosquito nets that money could have bought, the ever-increasing number of people being left homeless by the global recession. Remind him how many wells to provide clean, safe drinking waters that could have built in south africa. Talk about the orphans, terminally ill, elderly, impoverished that could all have been helped by just half of the impressive sum he spent on a 2500 point GK army.

While he's having the inevitable moral dilemma, he won't really be concentrating and will mess up his tactics, exploit every guilt-fuelled mistake

This made my day

Helios? I am unfamiliar with that configuration. Could you detail it?

@ Leigen_Zero, the problem w/ that is that I will also have spent 15 gakloads of cash on my minis.

schadenfreude wrote:Terminators can't take plasma siphons, it's wargear for one of his HQ attached to the terminators. I think, but am not positive than the only unit that has plasma siphons is a Xenos inquisitor.

I think, but am not positive that the plasma siphon has a 12" range from the HQ unit, so in theory you can rapid fire plasma into his unit without penalty as long as the shooters are inside rapid fire range but >12" from HQ unit. It's a difficult and tricky shot that requires a good eye for range.

Dick move of the week sponsored by Ordos Xenos: An all terminator army with 2 plasma siphons.

Um...rapid fire range IS 12". So you can't be >12" and in rapid fire range. It doesn't work that way.

PraetorDave wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Terminators can't take plasma siphons, it's wargear for one of his HQ attached to the terminators. I think, but am not positive than the only unit that has plasma siphons is a Xenos inquisitor.

I think, but am not positive that the plasma siphon has a 12" range from the HQ unit, so in theory you can rapid fire plasma into his unit without penalty as long as the shooters are inside rapid fire range but >12" from HQ unit. It's a difficult and tricky shot that requires a good eye for range.

Dick move of the week sponsored by Ordos Xenos: An all terminator army with 2 plasma siphons.

Um...rapid fire range IS 12". So you can't be >12" and in rapid fire range. It doesn't work that way.

Inside rapid fire range of the target, not the HQ.

which is why, if you are running the siphon, you will always have the inquisitor in the front rank.


and i though it was if the target was within 12" of the Siphon, not the shooter.

Grey Templar wrote:which is why, if you are running the siphon, you will always have the inquisitor in the front rank.


and i though it was if the target was within 12" of the Siphon, not the shooter.

Well, I am not sure, as this BS siphon stuff was told to me by a friend, I didn't actually read it myself.

Grey Templar wrote:which is why, if you are running the siphon, you will always have the inquisitor in the front rank.


and i though it was if the target was within 12" of the Siphon, not the shooter.

I guess we need to look at the exact wording of the siphon.

If it's the target being within 12" of the siphon then it's a 12" bubble that would work just like a BA priest's bubble, and thus a 2nd squad of 10 that's 11" from the siphon can string it's self out over 20" and still be protected 31" away form the siphon regardless of range to the plasmagun.

If it only effects shooters that are within 12" of the bubble then it can be bypassed as described. Having the inquisitor in the front rank wouldn't be certain protection as any shot from the rear or side would be >12" from the inquisitor. It's would be easier to carpenter's eye 12" for a siphon than 24" for a psychic hood/SW rune priest, and I've gotten off plenty of successful lash of submissions on squads containing librarians/rune priests with that trick.

Hide under the table until they go away, then come out from under it shouting "Victory!!"

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Hide under the table until they go away, then come out from under it shouting "Victory!!"

haha, if we going with the hide option, set up a wall just big enough for your tanks to skim over and shoot at him and all your infantry and tanks fill in the space so theres no space to stand outside of 1"... it worked for my friend w/e we used our personal table.

question: Fireknife or Blinding Spear?

not familiar with blinding sphere but fire knife is very reliable...

Depending on the amount of marker lights, a unit of death rain might be handy as they are not plasma (no way for BS1 if ruled that way) and a 4+ cover save looks a lot like a 4++ save.

Blinding Spear: Plasma, BC, MT

Fireknife: same thing but MP instead of BC

I can't really think of anything besides massed fire warriors and plasma crisis suits. Maybe a couple fuison blaster pirahnas if you think you can spare points.

Otherwise, you're boned. Grey knights...