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Chad Warden wrote:Does an Ironclad with a chainfist strike last?

Does an Ironclad with a Chainfist serve a purpose? You'll be trading 2D6+10 for 2D6+10... when against vehicles it's AV10 anyway as you always attach rear, so you can't not penetrate.

So is there a point to either?

BYE

1hadhq wrote:Storm shields deny the second attack for 2x CCw.
But you can take 2x stormshield.

Best part of the new Codex:

Chapter Master w/Terminator Armour + 2 Thunder Hammers.

Someone has to model that, even if it is pointless.

BYE

Chad Warden wrote:I thought that with Relic Blades being 2 handed it would prevent you using a Storm Shield, but the wording on them means you can use both at the same time.

This would only apply to chapter master,Captain and vanguard sgt.
weapon options will prevent both choices at one model.
Take relic blade or stormshield

Does an Ironclad with a chainfist strike last?

Dread CCW are power-weapons and may not be reduced to strike last.

1hadhq wrote:Dread CCW are power-weapons and may not be reduced to strike last.

He's not talking about a DCCW. He's talking about a Chainfist. An option for Ironclad Dreads is a Chainfist, not that I can see why you'd ever need one.

BYE

Chainfist is only in the unit entry.Maybe no one replaces the "hammer" of a ironclad (adds +1 at vehicle damage chart!)
with a chainfist?
Or is it the S 6 in the dread stats?
S6 (10) is no more in the dex.
found it.
Rulebook reference.

Dread CCW is a power weapon doubling strength.
Seismic hammer => S10 with damage roll +1 on chart.

Sorry, turns out my example was supposed to be for Command Squads. They can have p. pistol, p. wpn., and storm shield (plus FNP), but would they still get +1 for P/CC?

Smashotron wrote:Sorry, turns out my example was supposed to be for Command Squads. They can have p. pistol, p. wpn., and storm shield (plus FNP), but would they still get +1 for P/CC?

No bonus attack for 2nd CCW if using stormshields.
WYSIWYG will stop you fielding 2 one-handed weapons and a stormshield.

Anyone with 3 arms is a heretic and will be burned and cannot use Codex SM.

Is a 5-man command squad with bikes and 5x special-weapon a good idea or bad?

good idea.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Chad Warden wrote:Does an Ironclad with a chainfist strike last?

Does an Ironclad with a Chainfist serve a purpose? You'll be trading 2D6+10 for 2D6+10... when against vehicles it's AV10 anyway as you always attach rear, so you can't not penetrate.

So is there a point to either?

BYE

Unless I'm horribly mistaken, Dreads don't get the +1D6 armor penetration by default -- the Ironclad's normal bonus is +1 on the vehicle damage table.

The real cost for the upgrade, though, appears to be the ranged weapon attached to the hammer.

It seems people have stopped complaining about how good Tiggy is now we know that 230 pts gets you a t4 w2 sv3+ bullet magnet.

No bonus attack for 2nd CCW if using stormshields.
WYSIWYG will stop you fielding 2 one-handed weapons and a stormshield.

Anyone with 3 arms is a heretic and will be burned and cannot use Codex SM.

Because no Space Marine ever uses holsters for their pistols or scabbards for their swords.

Justyn wrote:

No bonus attack for 2nd CCW if using stormshields.

Because no Space Marine ever uses holsters for their pistols or scabbards for their swords.

You can wear holsters and scabbards until your marine is a pile of weapons.
It doesn't help.
Use a stormshield and you get only the attacks from the statline plus 1 for assaulting.

Wield 1 one-handed weapon + stormshield => invul save.
Wield 2 one-handed weapons => no invul save.

HBMC: I think you are confused like I was. Dreads only get 1d6 Pen standard with their DCCW. The chain fist aspect takes it to 2d6.

For the longest time I thought dreads got 2d6 base like monsterous critters, but was corrected a little bit ago.

lord_blackfang wrote:Raptors are more expensive than Assault Marines because they're more valuable to CSM, who otherwise lack dedicated assault troops.

So lemme get this straight. Your argument is that the FEWER options your codex has, the MORE you should pay for the ones you do get? In other words, the more your codex sucks, the more it should suck. Well I guess that sort of makes sense. No wait, it doesn't.

Assault Termies still go for 40 pts each, right? Do the +3 Shield cost extra? And does Furious Charge still costs 3 each?

And what's the actual cost of Vulkan?

Getting ready for next Las Vegas. Can't wait to start.

EdgarM wrote:Assault Termies still go for 40 pts each, right? Do the +3 Shield cost extra? And does Furious Charge still costs 3 each?

And what's the actual cost of Vulkan?

Getting ready for next Las Vegas. Can't wait to start.

weapon exchange is free for assault termies.Take pair LC or Thunderhammer+stormshield.

furious charge is gone.any other veteran skill is gone too.
termies got a special rule (from the rulebook): They can move and fire ALL weapons as stationary and can assault after that.

Vulkan He'stan = 190

Wehrkind wrote:HBMC: I think you are confused like I was. Dreads only get 1d6 Pen standard with their DCCW. The chain fist aspect takes it to 2d6.

For the longest time I thought dreads got 2d6 base like monsterous critters, but was corrected a little bit ago.

Hmm... brain fart in my case then. Where the hell did I get the 2D6 from? I really don't know.

In any case though, it's still redundant as you're only attacking AV10. So whether it's D6+10 or 2D6+10, you're still scoring over 10, so instant penetration. I just don't see the point.

BYE

There are these pesky Land Raider things that it would help against...

There are exactly three vehicles in the game with rear AV's over 10 (not including Super-Heavies). For these, you need you might need something more than 10, but for everything else, there's Master Card... I mean standard rules, making Meltabombs and the like redundant.

BYE

Chain Fist works good against Walkers with AV12 or 13.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:HBMC: I think you are confused like I was. Dreads only get 1d6 Pen standard with their DCCW. The chain fist aspect takes it to 2d6.

For the longest time I thought dreads got 2d6 base like monsterous critters, but was corrected a little bit ago.

Hmm... brain fart in my case then. Where the hell did I get the 2D6 from? I really don't know.

In any case though, it's still redundant as you're only attacking AV10. So whether it's D6+10 or 2D6+10, you're still scoring over 10, so instant penetration. I just don't see the point.

BYE

Dread vs Dread is against front armors. Dread vs monolith and Landraiders. Those are the only places where you wont auto pen. 2d6 will help better than 1D6.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:In other words, the more your codex sucks, the more it should suck. Well I guess that sort of makes sense. No wait, it doesn't.

Well this is Chaos we're talking about. We need more Hurr, or else we'll keep on getting kicked in the dirt.

1hadhq wrote:Dread CCW are power-weapons and may not be reduced to strike last.

Oh, what a 'oh damn' moment. We always played Dread CCWS went last...hah..oops.

lord_blackfang (like MDG) is just a warseer fanboy that's only here because he got banned, logic doesn't work on him

If the points were the other way around he'd be coming up with reasons why Assault Marines should cost more than Raptors

And I think while it's true you can't always compare units in a vaccum, I think it's reasonably fair to compare units in different marine armies given how similar they are.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Dread CCW are power-weapons and may not be reduced to strike last.

Oh, what a 'oh damn' moment. We always played Dread CCWS went last...hah..oops.

You got chainfists on your dreads before

Chad Warden wrote:lord_blackfang (like MDG) is just a warseer fanboy that's only here because he got banned, logic doesn't work on him

If the points were the other way around he'd be coming up with reasons why Assault Marines should cost more than Raptors

And I think while it's true you can't always compare units in a vaccum, I think it's reasonably fair to compare units in different marine armies given how similar they are.

*shrug*. I think it's an issue of codex age (which unfortunately means Raptors are going to be inferior pretty much until 6e) -- Assault Marines have received a non-scoring unit discount bigger than the one Raptors theoretically got.

In 5th Ed. they created the "Barrage" type for weapons to replace the "guess" type weapon rules.

To anyone who's seen the codex have you noticed they made the demolisher cannon a "barrage" weapon in the new codex?

aka_mythos wrote:In 5th Ed. they created the "Barrage" type for weapons to replace the "guess" type weapon rules.

To anyone who's seen the codex have you noticed they made the demolisher cannon a "barrage" weapon in the new codex?

Barrage??
No . Demolisher is ordnance.
The Earthshaker is the only imperial gun that is a barrage weapon.

Don't forget the mighty mortar ;-) There is also the whirlwind.