Facts from new SM codex

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**1hadhq**

The new dex has only a 2+ armor save for termies. the 2+/5+ is gone.
Any invul save is also not included in any page with rules for termies or termie armor.

But termies get the special rule "weapon-experts" from the rulebook.

**mothman_451**

no its not, look under the terminator armor rules its right there termies get a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invul sace
(its in the armor page, not the termie or points one)

**Smashotron**

Wow I nearly had a heart attack. Loyal termies lose their invul save? Hell that would make a Chaos unit better than their SM equivalent and we just can't have that! (Though it could be rationalized that the forges lost the technology to upkeep terminator force field or whatever makes the invulnerable save)

**mothman_451**

if anyone needs proof i can email them the exact page it is listed under

**oni**

1hadhq wrote:Why did the termies loose their 5+ invul save?

It's not on the stat line, but I think it'll be specified somewhere else in the codex. If you look the Captain's wargear he come with an Iron Halo as standard equipment yet the invulnerable save is not listed. Additionally the invulnerable saves are in the stat lines of the reference sheets for both units.

**MinMax**

5th Edition Codex wrote:A model wearing Terminator armour has a 2+ armour save, and a 5+ Invulnerable save.

It's in the Armour section of the Codex.

**GrimTeef**

The Terminators did not lose their 5+ inv. save. The pics of the pages you may have seen only show the regular armor save. Invulnerable saves are not shown on the statline. The Terminator armor rules are on another page with the 4 different types of marine armor (powered, carapace (scout), articifer, terminator), and the Terminator rules also state that models equipped with it may deep strike and have their 5+ save.

-damned, I was real slow on that one.

**1hadhq**

*looks in his brandnew dex*

*finds no invul save*

Which page did you find the invul save

in the CODEX not some photographed pages on the web!

**Somnicide**

page 102 about 3/4 of the way down

**1hadhq**

I'll hope someone has a printed original dex in english to confirm this.

Since my German dex missed this line.

**Chad Warden**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Lowinor wrote:Assault marines with jump packs, 1 base attack, and no special rules for assaulting on the turn the Deep Strike are 190 for 10, and that includes a sergeant (with no special weapons).

10 raptors with an aspiring champion cost 215 pts. Aside from an additional pt of Ld they have exactly the same stats. +25 pts for +1 Ld? Sounds fair to me.

Don't forget ATSKNF and Combat Tactics

**lord_blackfang**

Chad Warden wrote:
Don't forget ATSKNF and Combat Tactics

You can't really compare units across Codexes. Raptors are more expensive than Assault Marines because they're more valuable to CSM, who otherwise lack dedicated assault troops.

**EdgarM**

mothman_451 wrote:if anyone needs proof i can email them the exact page it is listed under

I need proof that the entire Codex is even real! Send it to me please?

**Ozymandias**

mothman_451 wrote:no its not, look under the terminator armor rules its right there termies get a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invul sace
(its in the armor page, not the termie or points one)

Whew, thanks for dispelling that!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**EdgarM**

I'm almost sure I read somewhere else that the german version of the Codex had a typo regarding the Terminator save.

**H.B.M.C.**

lord_blackfang wrote:You can't really compare units across Codexes.

Did you really just say this with a straight face? You can't compare units between Codices? Really? You can't?

You really just did say that, for real, no joke?

Really?

I'm... I'm at a loss for words at just how many types of wrong that statement is Blackfang.

BYE

**H.B.M.C.**

Anyway, who cares if Termy Armour has a 5+(I) save or not? Assault Terminators are the new hotness in this 'Dex, and they get 3+(I) saves.

BYE

**Mahu**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:You can't really compare units across Codexes.

Did you really just say this with a straight face? You can't compare units between Codices? Really? You can't?

You really just did say that, for real, no joke?

Really?

I'm... I'm at a loss for words at just how many types of wrong that statement is Blackfang.

BYE

You mean all the other choices in a particular army list has no bearing on the viability of a unit? As in all units exist in a vacuum?

Really?

**H.B.M.C.**

Nothing in 40K exists in a vacuum except for people who complain all the time (like me). Why? 'Cause in a vacuum, no one can hear you whine.

BYE

**Ratbarf**

But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

**H.B.M.C.**

Ratbarf wrote:But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

The idea was that GW was the vacuum... oh never mind. It obviously went over your head.

Anyway most people here find me amusing, as most people realise that I'm only half serious. Only those with me on ignore (all one of 'em) seem to have a problem with differing opinions.

BYE

**Mahu**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ratbarf wrote:But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

The idea was that GW was the vacuum... oh never mind. It obviously went over your head.

Anyway most people here find me amusing, as most people realise that I'm only half serious. Only those with me on ignore (all one of 'em) seem to have a problem with differing opinions.

BYE

The old adage rings true.

Sarcasm is lost on the internets.

**H.B.M.C.**

Mahu wrote:Sarcasm is lost on the internets.

Was that sarcasm?

BYE

**temprus**

Ratbarf wrote:But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.

Wait, did he start a podcast?

I can only see his "whine".

**quietus86**

temprus wrote:
Ratbarf wrote:But we can hear you whine HBMC, much to our dismay.
Wait, did he start a podcast? I can only see his "whine".

no the peaple that hear him whine get the the forum read out loude to dem

**George Spiggott**

lord_blackfang wrote: Raptors are more expensive than Assault Marines because they're more valuable to CSM, who otherwise lack dedicated assault troops.

CSM lack dedicated assault troops outside of Raptors?!? It has to be sarcasm.

**Chad Warden**

I thought that with Relic Blades being 2 handed it would prevent you using a Storm Shield, but the wording on them means you can use both at the same time.

Does an Ironclad with a chainfist strike last?

**InquisitorFabius**

I will check this tomorrow, and post a simple yes or no.

**Smashotron**

Do Storm Shields still replace a weapon? For example Vanguard marines say you can replace X and/or Y for Z at A points. But may also have the following (storm shield) for B points. Does that mean the whole unit can run around with plasma pistols, power weapons and storm shields? Or is there something in the new storm shield text that prohibits this?

**1hadhq**

Vanguard:
Storm-shields replace boltpistol or chainsword.
This denys a plasmapistol + power weapon + stormshield.

Storm shields deny the second attack for 2x CCw.
But you can take 2x stormshield.