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iproxtaco wrote:Bolters do not detonate on impact, the whole point is that they penetrate the target first. A Lightsaber, with no mass, would burn through them.

but the heat will detonate the explosive charge. que dangerous shrapnel.

Also with the Mace Windu vid, he's one of the Jedi Heroes so not an average Jedi. As said before if you get him we get Draigo or some other badass person

Stormcallers wrote:wow Crom, I was about to post this exact vid! We had this discussion at my FLGS and someone suggested i post this vid...great minds think alike!

I studied martial arts off and on a giant chunk of my life and my buddy sent me that video when it came out a few years ago. The guy that did that animation is the same guy that did Samurai Jack, and his attention to detail is quite amazing. There are a lot of actual kung fu moves in that short. Imagine a Shaolin Monk practicing their arts but fueled by the power of the force? The force is an unlimited power, the practitioner is the one that is limited. Like, when Yoda tells Luke size does not matter, Luke cannot get it out of him mind that sunken ship is harder because it is larger. Once Luke realizes that size is an illusion (buddhist influence here) he is able to over come, although if I recall Yoda lifted the sunken X-Wing for him. Many buddhist martial arts have the same concept, of little ideas, or efficiency. You realize power is in the mind.

Also, the light saber cuts right though the ship, as they do in other games, books, TV series, and so forth. I have no idea why Lucas made Qui Gon Gin's light saber so weak against the blast doors in the beginning of episode one, other than it was a plot device. Then again, Lucas is one of the worst writers ever. Great idea guy, but horrible writer and character/plot developer.

That has got to be one of the worst videos ever.

Please do not use "gay" as a substitute for "bad" or "stupid." Thanks, Manchu

Trooper wrote:That has got to be one of the gayest videos ever.

I am pretty sure Jedi are asexual for the most part.

Crom wrote:

Stormcallers wrote:wow Crom, I was about to post this exact vid! We had this discussion at my FLGS and someone suggested i post this vid...great minds think alike!

I studied martial arts off and on a giant chunk of my life and my buddy sent me that video when it came out a few years ago. The guy that did that animation is the same guy that did Samurai Jack, and his attention to detail is quite amazing. There are a lot of actual kung fu moves in that short. Imagine a Shaolin Monk practicing their arts but fueled by the power of the force? The force is an unlimited power, the practitioner is the one that is limited. Like, when Yoda tells Luke size does not matter, Luke cannot get it out of him mind that sunken ship is harder because it is larger. Once Luke realizes that size is an illusion (buddhist influence here) he is able to over come, although if I recall Yoda lifted the sunken X-Wing for him. Many buddhist martial arts have the same concept, of little ideas, or efficiency. You realize power is in the mind.

Also, the light sabre cuts right though the ship, as they do in other games, books, TV series, and so forth. I have no idea why Lucas made Qui Gon Gin's light saber so weak against the blast doors in the beginning of episode one, [b]other than it was a plot device. Then again, Lucas is one of the worst writers ever. Great idea guy, but horrible writer and character/plot developer.

All lightsabers are just light beams so blast doors which are supposedly meant to stop Laser from penetrating the doors that is why it took so long, also in Sithlords a door was made of the same material of which they outfit the battleships with and was also magnetized and stopped the lightsaber from bust or cutting through the door. So cutting through blast doors should not be an easy feat even for a lightsaber.

Mace Windu, because he's a totally accurate representation of your average jedi. Also totally not considered the greatest jedi warrior who ever lived, nope.

DarknessEternal wrote:Mace Windu, because he's a totally accurate representation of your average jedi. Also totally not considered the greatest jedi warrior who ever lived, nope.

Man PimpSword deserved a better ending then getting tossed out a windu(Yeah I went there).

DarknessEternal wrote:Mace Windu, because he's a totally accurate representation of your average jedi. Also totally not considered the greatest jedi warrior who ever lived, nope.

He isn't considered the greatest and if you go by all the books, even the ones that predate the movies, there have been far greater jedi/sith. Though Mace does rank up there as a bad ass. Also, in the movies the Jedi are at their weakest, and rely on things like mediclorians and technology, which is why they lost touch with the force, and also why how easy it was for the Emperor to mask himself from the Jedi. If you read up on the third party writing about the movies it goes into this, where as Lucas just sort of forgot to mention it.

Mace Windu could crush a Marine in his armor just like he crushed those droids. Then again none of it really matters because Wolverine could kill all of them. In Marvel Civil war, they dropped a damn nuke on him, and he regenerated....seriously talk about over powered

Crom wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Mace Windu, because he's a totally accurate representation of your average jedi. Also totally not considered the greatest jedi warrior who ever lived, nope.

He isn't considered the greatest and if you go by all the books,... If you read up on the third party writing about the movies it goes into this, where as Lucas just sort of forgot to mention it.

None of those books are canon. Seriously, none of them.

Lucas can't forget anything about Star Wars. If he doesn't think of it, it doesn't exist. Star Wars is his property alone. Even the licensing agreements he makes with other companies, to write those novels for example, include language that can be summarized as "none of this crap really counts as Star Wars."

This thread is still alive?

Goddard wrote:This thread is still alive?

Unfortunately, yes.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Crom wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Mace Windu, because he's a totally accurate representation of your average jedi. Also totally not considered the greatest jedi warrior who ever lived, nope.

He isn't considered the greatest and if you go by all the books,... If you read up on the third party writing about the movies it goes into this, where as Lucas just sort of forgot to mention it.

None of those books are canon. Seriously, none of them.

Lucas can't forget anything about Star Wars. If he doesn't think of it, it doesn't exist. Star Wars is his property alone. Even the licensing agreements he makes with other companies, to write those novels for example, include language that can be summarized as "none of this crap really counts as Star Wars."

You sure? I heard otherwise like he was OK with the death of Mara Jade and Chewbacca and that the licensed books are canon since they pay for the license. All other authors seem to be consistent with this too. How is the GW stuff licensed? Is it gospel, so to speak?

I honestly never looked up the license agreements of any of this. However, if you are going to compare you should compare what is widely excepted rather than what a license agreement states.

Oddly enough, Jedi are quite vulnerable to non-laser weapons in the lore, compared to laser weapons. Explosive and shrapnel weapons especially. Try not getting hurt by a weapon designed to explode when it hits your lightsaber when you instinctively block

K this video settles it all it proves jedi and sith aren't as weak
To blasts as everyone seems to presume. Force deflect? Now just picture the sith lord as a librairian or whoever. The jedi are elite they still come with the troopers and they watch eachothers backs . Just like marines to the psyker. So what your going to get is a giant bloody mess with people flying everywhere . gak blowing up like any normal war. What It will this whole thing will rely on is the basic fundamentals of combat because everyone is forgetting that they are all still human to a point. So the victor will be based on the battle plan, moral tactical advantages and of course luck. A bloody messs and that's it.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=z0RuR3FREFw

Jedi Powers are NOTHING compared to the powers of a strong psyker...

In fact, a Primaris Psyker could actually feasibly block a shot from the death star and live to tell the tale, without really necessarily overly exerting themselves and coming to absolutely no harm. Possibly even preventing the destruction of the planet, although it'd still be rather scarred from the energies released as it explodes against their stasis shell above the planet's surface instead of penetrating to the core.

Melissia wrote:Jedi Powers are NOTHING compared to the powers of a strong psyker...

In fact, a Primaris Psyker could actually feasibly block a shot from the death star and live to tell the tale, without really necessarily overly exerting themselves and coming to absolutely no harm. Possibly even preventing the destruction of the planet, although it'd still be rather scarred from the energies released as it explodes against their stasis shell above the planet's surface instead of penetrating to the core.

Lol well my primaris psyker has been killed by many things that fall short from a death star in the way a fly would fall short of a bullet. Everyone can be killed. And they all have their str. And weaknesses as everyones base component is human .


And have we all missed the obvious? The link between these worlds are the normal humans and how they perform against it all. Troopers = imperial. guard so space marines are going to mangle troopers in cc. But will still die. Troopers get mangled by jedi but can outnumber and overwhelm. Hence a bloody mess .

Primaris Psykers in tabletop are nowhere NEAR representative of how they are in fluff. They can't, for example, do things such as create a thunderstorm where instead of rain there's fireballs.

Melissia wrote:Jedi Powers are NOTHING compared to the powers of a strong psyker...

In fact, a Primaris Psyker could actually feasibly block a shot from the death star and live to tell the tale, without really necessarily overly exerting themselves and coming to absolutely no harm. Possibly even preventing the destruction of the planet, although it'd still be rather scarred from the energies released as it explodes against their stasis shell above the planet's surface instead of penetrating to the core.

Jedi ARE Psykers...

-J.

Jedi aren't psykers.

Alazahr wrote:Jedi ARE Psykers...

-J.

No.

The Force is infinitely safer than the Warp, and the temptations of the Force are far, far less dangerous. The powers they draw on are also less powerful. So what if a Jedi can pull their lightsaber into their hand from a few meters away? A Psyker can summon THEIR power sword from half a world away in the same amount of time, and that's considered a weak and minor psychic power that almost any psyker would be able to learn, even recent sanctionites with relatively weak psychic powers.

You cant put everything based on lore as there are loop holes. And execptions . You need to look at the fundament mechanics . Human, mortality , mistakes, limits from being human . If you merge the worlds you have to realise that there is a reaction for every action. There is a counter that will be developed against these "godly" things you try to throw in. Human civilization has proved this for a few thousand years. Which brings it all back to both sides will lose and win. With the execption of mass defeat from masterful planning or mass technological advantages which I would say is non existant here for the sake of arguing

Melissia wrote:Primaris Psykers in tabletop are nowhere NEAR representative of how they are in fluff. They can't, for example, do things such as create a thunderstorm where instead of rain there's fireballs.

Njal can ( had to be said)
Also I must include sith in this argument because its the other side of the coin. Darth Nihilus can suck a planet dead with his force powers.

Njal isn't a primaris psyker.

As for Darth Nihilus? 40k has dozens like him, or worse, ones capable of literally drawing worlds into the warp.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

larose14 wrote:You cant put everything based on lore as there are loop holes.

Nonsense.

It's like comparing a twenty year old beat up VW beetle to a Nascar custom-built racer and wondering which one will finish first, saying you can't judge the race based off of the car's designs.

Key word capable. But can be stopped hence reaction to an action. And quote my entire argument not just one phrase

A psyker lives on the edge of power and control.


if a Jedi loses control, he turns to the Dark Side and gains some small level of power in the offensive arena.

if a Psyker loses control he can be posessed by a Daemon who is mearly an extension of a dark god's will. even worse if the psyker barters his soul with a Dark God for even more power.


entire sectors have fallen into darkness because 1 psyker came under the influence of Chaos(willingly or unwillingly. the willing ones are more dangerous)

have a person with even a fraction of that power and the force seems wimpy.

Not all jedi or sith are human would that add to the conflict?

Not really.

it seems that, for some reason, nearly al Star Wars species are roughly Humanoid in shape and body size. I think only Wookie Jedi could even come close to matching a Space Marine in physical strength, but the marine maintains a durability and speed advantage.

Alazahr wrote:
Jedi ARE Psykers...

-J.

No....

Jedi can control atoms and molecules in our universe to some degree...
Psykers control matter in Warp, witch is 100x deadlier than our matter and use it to wield unimaginable destructive powers in our universe...

This is at least how I see it...

Brother Coa wrote:
Psykers control matter in Warp, witch is 100x deadlier than our matter and use it to wield unimaginable destructive powers in our universe...

You mean kinda like omega level psykers (or whatever the highest grade is), who can crush a battle titan with a thought?