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The Force yields unlimited and infinite power, the force user is limited, not the force. The practitioner of the Force comes with limits be it, physical, mental, and how in tune they are with the force. There have been sith lords that come back from the dead thousands of years later, or sith lords that cannot be killed at all because they are so driven by their hate, that the only way to kill them is to bring them peace.
A powerful Jedi could just crush all the marines in their armor. A non powerful Jedi wouldn't be able to do that. I think overall the Marines would win in all out war, but they wouldn't beat the Jedi with out suffering heavy losses.
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the Eldar!
Wow, look at all of this Marine love! No wonder GW releases so many codexes for them!
I'd wager that one Jedi would be the equal of ten Space Marines. That's not a dig on Space Marines, just a reflection of how potent that the Jedi are. This is all a moot point though, since the Fremen would stomp Marines AND Jedi.
SkaerKrow wrote:Wow, look at all of this Marine love! No wonder GW releases so many codexes for them!
I'd wager that one Jedi would be the equal of ten Space Marines. That's not a dig on Space Marines, just a reflection of how potent that the Jedi are. This is all a moot point though, since the Fremen would stomp Marines AND Jedi.
I think it is moot because Wolverine and Chuck Norris would have to come in, tell the Jedi and the Space marines they are both pretty and to stop fighting, then decide to kill everyone. I have been outta comics for a long time but on occasion I will pick up a collection and read through it, and man their characters are insanely powerful. Magneto could destroy whole marine chapters, and he can also now travel in the vacuum of space by creating an atmosphere with in a magnetic field that allows him to breath. he can also now regenerate his body's cells with magnetic fields, making him basically immortal.
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the Eldar!
I run a Star Wars RPG game every week. I love the OT like it was a parent. The prequels make me bleed from my rectum. Understand how deep my love of Star Wars is.
Space Marines win.
Sorry, guys. It's incontrovertable. 1000 Chapters of 1000 is 1 million. The only time hard numbers are given for the Jedi they are put at 20,000 members. That's being outnumbered 50 to 1.
We've seen that lightsabers take a long time to cut through certain hardened materials (Ep1)... I would think that Marine armor would count as such a material, being constructed out of something called "Adamantite". So you can cut a SM with your lightsaber, but it's going to take a few swings before you find the chocolate center under the candy shell. And all the while, the SM is shooting you.
Lightsabers can cut a bolter round, but hitting explosives with a laser usually results in a detonation. IRL, bombs are not very friendly when you shoot them, unless they are made of certain compounds. Even if they don't explode, Jedi have difficulty dealing with full auto fire (Ep2)
Jedi telekenetic powers can push bolter rounds away, but can a Jedi focus on the hail of fast-moving targets and push them all away before they hit him? Maybe, maybe not. And all it takes is ONE bolt shell to get through.
Can't lightsaber parry or Force Push a meltagun. It doesn't fire a coherent beam; it fires a blast of microwave radiation. Can't block it, can't stop it. If you don't dodge it, you're cooked, and if you're dodging it, you're probably headed into someone else's bolter volley.
Flamers? Eat promethium, Heretic.
Chainswords? Well, they are also described as made from Adamantite, so they could probably parry a few lightsaber hits before they suffered enough damage that they would not function as chain-weapons anymore.
Still makes a pretty good club. Last time I checked, Jedi are still vulnerable to blunt-force trauma...
Jedi Mind Tricks? Everybody on the SW side of this issue thinks that's a game-changer. Nobody on the SW side of this knows anything about Space Marine conditioning. I'll explain it. "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded." The Space Marines are not weak-minded. They are susceptible to influence and corruption by the Gods of Chaos, true. But Gods of Chaos are very much more powerful than any Jedi who ever lived, or ever will live, the end.
Your mind trick might work on some Scouts, but those guys are punks anyway, thanks to the new codex.
Jedi Knights are warriors, not soldiers. There's no difference, you say? Well, there is one. Warriors are guys who are trained to fight and do battle. Soldiers are trained to wage war. The distinction is that SM have a greater understanding of battlefield tactics, combat strategy, and how to work as a unit than the Jedi. So maybe 1 Jedi vs 1 SM it doesn't matter much... but 10 Jedi vs 10 Marines, you'll see an important difference in their respective abilities. 10 Jedi will fight like 10 Jedi. 10 Marines will fight like 1 Tactical Squad.
Marines (most of them, anyway) can spit highly corrosive acid. Into your Jedi's face. Jedi might not need eyes to see, but it's real damn hard swinging a lightsaber without a head.
All these claims of Jedi using godlike powers to make the ground swallow enemies or call lightning down to smight their foes is Tolkeen-level wishful thinking. The Jedi are never, NEVER depicted with that kind of power in any of the films. Gotta stick with canon, and as Lucas has said, if it's not in the movies, it's not canon.
And before you get all moist and claim I'm drawing from the novels for thh SM side; I've only pulled info from the Codex and main rulebook.
Sorry, Star Wars fans. I gotta give this one to the Marines.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
squidhills wrote:The Jedi are never, NEVER depicted with that kind of power in any of the films. Gotta stick with canon, and as Lucas has said, if it's not in the movies, it's not canon.
Mind finding me a quote?
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
squidhills wrote:The Jedi are never, NEVER depicted with that kind of power in any of the films. Gotta stick with canon, and as Lucas has said, if it's not in the movies, it's not canon.
Mind finding me a quote?
Any interview with George Lucas where someone mentions the Expanded Universe. He will say it at least once.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
Finally this thread can be put too rest cause I think Squidhills has taking the cake right from under Gladys's cyber nose (see Portal game) and ran home so the Marine can have some food
Join the Imperial Guard. The pay's lousy, the battles fierce and you probably won't ever come back again. BUT you get a lasgun. 2500 1250
9000 1000
1500
5500
planned
squidhills wrote:The Jedi are never, NEVER depicted with that kind of power in any of the films. Gotta stick with canon, and as Lucas has said, if it's not in the movies, it's not canon.
Mind finding me a quote?
Any interview with George Lucas where someone mentions the Expanded Universe. He will say it at least once.
Then the OP needs to specify if we're limited to the Star Wars films, or the entire Star Wars universe.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
Crom wrote:The Force yields unlimited and infinite power, the force user is limited, not the force. The practitioner of the Force comes with limits be it, physical, mental, and how in tune they are with the force. There have been sith lords that come back from the dead thousands of years later, or sith lords that cannot be killed at all because they are so driven by their hate, that the only way to kill them is to bring them peace.
A powerful Jedi could just crush all the marines in their armor.
Aaaand a powerful Psyker could plunge an entire world into the warp with a thought, killing and tormenting all the Jedi on it for all eternity afterwards.
Or hell, they could just turn their blood into fire instead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/20 18:03:43
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Why exactly is this comparison even being made? It's not like Jedi and Astartes are comparable, or even meant to fill the same roles in their respective universes.
This is almost as bad as that Gandalf Vs. Eldrad thread.
Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
jedi mind tricks won't work against psychic hood. I'd like to see that jedi get passed a storm shield and parry a force weapon. Oh, so you can move stuff with your mind? Mr. Librarian here can open a vortex to your doom! Enjoy eternity in oblivion. Say hi to Mr. Khorne while your down there.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Why exactly is this comparison even being made? It's not like Jedi and Astartes are comparable, or even meant to fill the same roles in their respective universes.
This is almost as bad as that Gandalf Vs. Eldrad thread.
Because people like to argue who has the better imaginary friend.
And in the end this is resolved only by the fact who has more fans...
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
squidhills wrote:The Jedi are never, NEVER depicted with that kind of power in any of the films. Gotta stick with canon, and as Lucas has said, if it's not in the movies, it's not canon.
Mind finding me a quote?
Any interview with George Lucas where someone mentions the Expanded Universe. He will say it at least once.
Well, that is just ridiculous, because the movies in no way represent really what the Jedi can do. What Lucas was trying to point out is that the Jedi in the movies had lost touch with the force and focused way too much on technology and mediclorians and things that don't really impact or define the force, which allowed the Emperor to disguise and cloud his sith practices from the whole Jedi Council, even Yoda was blinded. The problem is, Lucas does a horrible job of developing that aspect of the story. I remember reading this from an article published by Lucas Arts some years ago.
Though I guess this whole thread is ridiculous.....
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the Eldar!
Crom wrote:
Well, that is just ridiculous, because the movies in no way represent really what the Jedi can do.
No, the movies are the only things that represent what jedi can do. Anything else is baseless exaggeration. That's what canon means.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
Lucasfilms keeps an internal database that includes all media related to Star Wars. I think they even give each book/show/whatever a "canon" rating corresponding to weither or not it exists in the Star Wars universe. Things that Lucanfilms considers insanely exaggerated are excluded from the canon, but others are included.
EDIT: Its called the "holocron" or some such nonsense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/20 20:42:55
So how highly rated are Jedi generally in this 'holocron' thing?
Because if the measure of Jedi is what the characters can accomplish in the movies, (i.e. deflecting monodirectional blaster shots and force-jumping is real ultimate POWAH) then I think as few as two tactical Marines are more than a match for individual Jedi.
Jedi seem even more underwhelming in the Clone Wars cartoons. Unarmed Trandoshans are more of a match for unarmed Jedi than I would have expected, even partially trained Jedi 'younglings'.
How many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb?
-- Fifty-Four -- Eight to argue, one to get a continuance, one to object, one to demur, two to research precedents, one to dictate a letter, one to stipulate, five to turn in their time cards, one to depose, one to write interrogatories, two to settle, one to order a secretary to change the bulb, and twenty eight to bill for professional services.
Anger, fear, ecstasy these state of mind might produce something useful. Grief and regret produce nothing except bad poetry, which is actually worse than nothing.
larose14 wrote:K this video settles it all it proves jedi and sith aren't as weak
To blasts as everyone seems to presume. Force deflect? Now just picture the sith lord as a librairian or whoever. The jedi are elite they still come with the troopers and they watch eachothers backs . Just like marines to the psyker. So what your going to get is a giant bloody mess with people flying everywhere . gak blowing up like any normal war. What this whole thing will rely on is the basic fundamentals of combat because everyone is forgetting that they are all still human to a point. So the victor will be based on the battle plan, moral tactical advantages and of course luck. A bloody messs and that's it.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
larose14 wrote:
larose14 wrote:K this video settles it all it proves jedi and sith aren't as weak
To blasts as everyone seems to presume. Force deflect? Now just picture the sith lord as a librairian or whoever. The jedi are elite they still come with the troopers and they watch eachothers backs . Just like marines to the psyker. So what your going to get is a giant bloody mess with people flying everywhere . gak blowing up like any normal war. What this whole thing will rely on is the basic fundamentals of combat because everyone is forgetting that they are all still human to a point. So the victor will be based on the battle plan, moral tactical advantages and of course luck. A bloody messs and that's it.
its just showing 4 different videos and none have anything to do with blowing things up(except the meal time in russia one perhaps)
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Are you posting from a phone? I think the m stands for mobile....try posting from a computer, or directly copy/paste the link from your phone's browser and not the youtube app
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the Eldar!
NamTaey wrote:I am pretty sure if a lot of Jedi fought a Space Marine company, this would be the outcome:
pew pew
You mean Imperial Guard. Except lasguns fire projectiles which move at the speed of light, unlike blasters, meaning it's that much harder to block, if it even can be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 14:07:27
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
1250
9000 
1000
1500
5500
planned 
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! 
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" 
in your name it shall be done" 
Menaphite Dynasty Necrons - 6000 
Karak Hirn Dwarfs - 2500 
