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Stormcallers wrote:Well Jedi are most certainly canon....so i guess they are "rated" as high as you can go haha.
Heh, not 'rating' in terms of how canon, but rather 'power rating'. Jedi in the movies, even while lifting x-wings with their brains or doing lightsaber-fu are simply not that impressive outside of 1v1 or 1v2 duels.
Also wasn't it in the clone wars cartoon that Windu went crazy on all those droids.
Yeah, the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars. That was epic. I'd point out that Samurai Jack pulls off some pretty epic maneuvers too, though. Jedi v Samurai with Magical Sword: Who wins?
The CGI Clone Wars cartoons Jedi, though, are not nearly so amazing. I'm not an avid fan, only watching when CN has a Sunday marathon or something like that, but I distinctly remember Jedi Master something-or-other with a lightsaber getting eaten by four or hunting dog wolf things. A naked Space Marine would have eaten them, not the other way around.
I'm going to go with the general consensus (it seems) that 1 Jedi = 10 Marines
I think the ratio is something in the low digits so I won't disagree with it being 1 Jedi to 1 squad of unnamed anonymous Marines.
I distinctly remember Jedi Master something-or-other with a lightsaber getting eaten by four or hunting dog wolf things. A naked Space Marine would have eaten them, not the other way around.
The Space Marine actually would have become best friends with them, been fed on their mother's milk and finally forge some mythical "bond" with them.
Now he rides them to battle on cavalry-charges 20 miles under the sea against submersible Tau-suits. That's how it goes by the book. The truth!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/07/21 15:25:03
OK, OK, but you guys are missing a possibility here. A sith dark lord who succumbs to the temptations of the warp, and becomes a sith but with gifts of Chaos. Imagine a Khorne or Tzeench Sith Lord....You figure if Jedi were fighting Marines some of them might jump ship to Chaos, just for the powers they would gain alone.
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the Eldar!
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
except Jedi arn't psykers so wouldn't get much of the deadly gifts.
this is also assuming the Chaos gods didn't eat them(they probably eat most of them and maybe keep a couple as pets)
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote:except Jedi arn't psykers so wouldn't get much of the deadly gifts.
this is also assuming the Chaos gods didn't eat them(they probably eat most of them and maybe keep a couple as pets)
You don't need to be a Psyker to get Chaos goodies. Also, inversely, some Space Marines might be midichorlian-compatible.. Space Marine Jedis for the win!
K this video settles it all it proves jedi and sith aren't as weak
To blasts as everyone seems to presume. Force deflect? Now just picture the sith lord as a librairian or whoever. The jedi are elite they still come with the troopers and they watch eachothers backs . Just like marines to the psyker. So what your going to get is a giant bloody mess with people flying everywhere . gak blowing up like any normal war. What It will this whole thing will rely on is the basic fundamentals of combat because everyone is forgetting that they are all still human to a point. So the victor will be based on the battle plan, moral tactical advantages and of course luck. A bloody messs and that's it.
Same as Space Marines if every Imperial Guardsman in the Imperium is to point his gun at them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 19:49:38
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
betrayal and ambush deals more with tactical advantage not skill. and the troopers were traditionally with the jedi yatta yatta, high command was infiltrated by the enemy, hence their total destruction.
your enemy is most vulnerable at their moment of victory - Napoleon Bonapart
Oh, one more thing, why Jedi lose...
They don't exist anymore. Their galaxy is far, far away and all this happened a "long time ago" ( maybe thousands to millions of years ago ) from our perspective.
And 40k is 38.000 years in the future, so...
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
I have already said this and I will say it again....
People at Lucas Arts have come out and said that in the movies the Jedi have become out of tune with the force due to their relying on technology and things like midichlorians, which don't have that much impact on the force. They lost sight, which is why the Emperor was able to mask his presence as a sith lord right under their noses. The Jedi in the movies are suppose to be frail compared to the Jedi before them in terms of them being able to use the force and apply it properly.
The clones were designed genetically to be resistant to mind reading and since no one could detect the dark side influence over the whole thing, not even Yoda could, no one knew it was coming.
Lucas is just a terrible writer and did not really get this point across properly.
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the Eldar!
larose14 wrote:K this video settles it all it proves jedi and sith aren't as weak To blasts as everyone seems to presume. Force deflect?
Mace Windu was forced to jump away from a flamethrower because it went AROUND his lightsaber. If it was any other Jedi that wasn't a master they've have roasted alive. Force Deflect doesn't work on explosions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 20:34:58
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
larose14 wrote:K this video settles it all it proves jedi and sith aren't as weak
To blasts as everyone seems to presume. Force deflect?
Mace Windu was forced to jump away from a flamethrower because it went AROUND his lightsaber. If it was any other Jedi that wasn't a master they've have roasted alive. Force Deflect doesn't work on explosions.
K watch my posted video a few responses up, thats a video about the time which the jedi were in tune with the force and clearly out do those from the movie.(awesome video regardless) Anyway even then in the old republic when they were at war with the sith they had troopers just like marines have librarians geesus this has to be taken into context of war.
So it seems one jedi accompanies a commando unit vs a librarian and a tactical squad of marines. That's how you have to view this argument. That's just a good fight in general. In open war troopers and jedi have strength in support from jedi/ trooper numbers. Marines is giant army of special forces which means a lot of troopers are dying . but so are the marines . Jedi and Liberians are ic's capable of slaughtering but also subject to misfortunes such as heavy weaponry and each other .
Leadership will win the day plain and simple
your enemy is most vulnerable at their moment of victory - Napoleon Bonapart
larose14 wrote:K this video settles it all it proves jedi and sith aren't as weak
To blasts as everyone seems to presume. Force deflect?
Mace Windu was forced to jump away from a flamethrower because it went AROUND his lightsaber. If it was any other Jedi that wasn't a master they've have roasted alive. Force Deflect doesn't work on explosions.
No, but some Jedi can absorb energy. One jedi, Corran Horn - I forget which book it was, but he survived a massive explosion that leveled the building he was in by absorbing the energy of the explosion and channeling it upward. One of his ancestors took a hit from a lightsaber and then drained its batteries dry. Against a Jedi like that, flamers and plasma weapons wouldn't be all that effective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 21:49:52
CiaranAnnrach wrote:Against a Jedi like that, flamers and plasma weapons wouldn't be all that effective.
As bolters are standard-issue, I think Horn has other issues.
The energy redistribution was also something that took a great deal of focus/concentration, a great 1v1 ability, but less an asset against flying chainswords and grenade-bullets.
ctlc wrote:Dear exterminatus... meet the deathstar. GG
Not really..... The imperium could destroy an entire planet it is a more of a pyschological tool to demoralize any hopes of a rebellion as normal people would know about this.
And the imperium ships would just laugh at the pathetic attempts to have superweapons pointed at them oh look the laser has to charge every 3 hours OH NO.
Plus this thread is about Space Marines vs Jedi, you can start a thread of its own. Though don't be surprised by the hatefest from users.
And how has this thread survived for so long D:
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
No, but some Jedi can absorb energy. One jedi, Corran Horn - I forget which book it was, but he survived a massive explosion that leveled the building he was in by absorbing the energy of the explosion and channeling it upward. One of his ancestors took a hit from a lightsaber and then drained its batteries dry. Against a Jedi like that, flamers and plasma weapons wouldn't be all that effective.
And that's 1, maybe 2 Jedi amongst thousands?
If you start getting to claim special fancy powers that a few Jedi have, than so do the Space Marines. This battle is NOT between named characters of doom, or between Jedi leading their clones against the Space Marines. It's about a standard Jedi and a Standard Space Marine. In the video posted, the Marines would NOT be fighting the lead Sith guy, but instead his small group of lackeys, who seemed to be going down fairly quickly even to basic clones.
THe most sensible options continues to be that a single Jedi can beat a single Marine, but against a unit of Marines would be overwhelmed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 02:13:33
"If everything on Earth were rational, nothing would ever happen."
~Fyodor Dostoevsky
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
~Hanlon's Razor
No, but some Jedi can absorb energy. One jedi, Corran Horn - I forget which book it was, but he survived a massive explosion that leveled the building he was in by absorbing the energy of the explosion and channeling it upward. One of his ancestors took a hit from a lightsaber and then drained its batteries dry. Against a Jedi like that, flamers and plasma weapons wouldn't be all that effective.
And that's 1, maybe 2 Jedi amongst thousands?
If you start getting to claim special fancy powers that a few Jedi have, than so do the Space Marines. This battle is NOT between named characters of doom, or between Jedi leading their clones against the Space Marines. It's about a standard Jedi and a Standard Space Marine. In the video posted, the Marines would NOT be fighting the lead Sith guy, but instead his small group of lackeys, who seemed to be going down fairly quickly even to basic clones.
THe most sensible options continues to be that a single Jedi can beat a single Marine, but against a unit of Marines would be overwhelmed.
Yea unfortuately the thread digressed to librarians nuking entire quadrants with the warp blah blah .
So the warzone scenario seemed more like a Feesable middle ground as each side needs to depend on those around them
your enemy is most vulnerable at their moment of victory - Napoleon Bonapart
No, but some Jedi can absorb energy. One jedi, Corran Horn - I forget which book it was, but he survived a massive explosion that leveled the building he was in by absorbing the energy of the explosion and channeling it upward. One of his ancestors took a hit from a lightsaber and then drained its batteries dry. Against a Jedi like that, flamers and plasma weapons wouldn't be all that effective.
And that's 1, maybe 2 Jedi amongst thousands?
If you start getting to claim special fancy powers that a few Jedi have, than so do the Space Marines. This battle is NOT between named characters of doom, or between Jedi leading their clones against the Space Marines. It's about a standard Jedi and a Standard Space Marine. In the video posted, the Marines would NOT be fighting the lead Sith guy, but instead his small group of lackeys, who seemed to be going down fairly quickly even to basic clones.
THe most sensible options continues to be that a single Jedi can beat a single Marine, but against a unit of Marines would be overwhelmed.
His ability was a bit rare, I'll give you that. (Though, IIRC, Darth Vader could do the same thing.) But for all intents and purposes, he WAS an average Jedi of average power, and for his special ability he couldn't use telekenetic powers at all. He mainly starred in the Rogue Squadron series as an X-Wing pilot, and the whole Jedi thing came later. And at no point was he considered a particularly powerful Jedi. Rather he was one of Luke's first students, and ended up leaving before he could complete his training when his wife was kidnapped.
My points are two. There is no true "average Jedi" - they all specialized in something. Something they were good at. So to toss out their "special powers", or the things they excelled at, makes the whole argument biased towards the marines.
Second, this whole scenario is completely flawed, as no matter one fraction asserts as the reason their side would win, the other side can come up with a counter for it. And without a scenario, it's worse. Are they fighting in an open field? Marines. Building or dense jungle? Jedi. Is it a squad of bolter marines, or assault marines? Are the marines kitted out to fight Jedi? Does the Jedi have the chance to prepare special equipment prior to fighting the Marines? What powers does the Jedi have, and how adept is he? (And what quantifies the power level of the "average" Jedi?) Has the Jedi had a premonition about the battle and what his opponents can/will do? If so, can the Jedi play to his strengths, or does he have to fight on the Marine's terms?
These reasons make this sort of argument ultimately pointless. There is no truly absolute answer. Only "it depends on the situation".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 03:06:20
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
ctlc wrote:Dear exterminatus... meet the deathstar. GG
Quite frankly, the Deathstar blows compared to Exterminatus.
yeah, it can totally obliterate a planet, but that is one space station that can only be in one place at one time.
Exterminatus can be carried out by any ship with Torpedo tubes. which is practically all of them.
and if the planet itself has to be destroyed, and not just every living thing down to viruses, there are Clyclonic torpedos which do basically the same thing the Deathstar does.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Crom wrote: Ever see the short animated video of Mace Windu, where he basically destroys a whole droid army with out his light saber? This is all clone wars canon approved by Lucas, so it is an actual representation of Jedi power.
No, that's an actual representation of Mace Windu's power, who was one of the most potent Jedi Masters and the only practitioner of Vaapad ever.
May as well put him up against Horus or a Daemon Prince or the Emperor.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ChrisWWII wrote:THe most sensible options continues to be that a single Jedi can beat a single Marine, but against a unit of Marines would be overwhelmed.
Yes, that's been the case since like page 2 or 3.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/22 06:03:01
Commisar Wolfie wrote:Because no one can except that my imaginary friend is better then their imaginary friend.
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the way Im pro 40K
Why don't someone do 40k vs. Star Wars vs. Halo vs. Star Trek movie?
Imagine the money earned, it would beat Avatar on so many levels...
Let us all writ to Cameron...
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Commisar Wolfie wrote:Because no one can except that my imaginary friend is better then their imaginary friend.
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the way Im pro 40K
Why don't someone do 40k vs. Star Wars vs. Halo vs. Star Trek movie?
Imagine the money earned, it would beat Avatar on so many levels...
Let us all writ to Cameron...
lmao why didn't i think of that..
your enemy is most vulnerable at their moment of victory - Napoleon Bonapart
ctlc wrote:Dear exterminatus... meet the deathstar. GG
lol, death star. The Empire WISHES it had the capabilities of the Imperium to end planets.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Death Star was such fail....
It was destroyed by single fighter.... Second one to...
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Crom wrote: Ever see the short animated video of Mace Windu, where he basically destroys a whole droid army with out his light saber? This is all clone wars canon approved by Lucas, so it is an actual representation of Jedi power.
No, that's an actual representation of Mace Windu's power, who was one of the most potent Jedi Masters and the only practitioner of Vaapad ever.
Or a single primaris psyker / librarian with a force sword and the right powers. Even force swords without power fields can block power weapons-- so they'd also be able to block lightsabers, which can be blocked by the Star Wars equivalent fo force weapons (which are called... *drumroll* force weapons).
Psychic powers such as being able to see many seconds into the future, illusions, time manipulation, or something simpler like making an opponent's blood boil with a thought, all could lead to a quickly defeated Jedi.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 15:34:12
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Brother Coa wrote:Death Star was such fail....
It was destroyed by single fighter.... Second one to...
now now now, we gotta be fair.
it was destroyed by a fighter and a small freighter
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I can see a jedi getting owned hand to hand with a space marine with a power weapon but if he used his powers and the marine used a bolter it'll be close.
And besides aren't the Eldar Pyskers like Jedi? They use lighting and all that crap.
your enemy is most vulnerable at their moment of victory 
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" 
in your name it shall be done" 
707th Lubyan Aquila Banner Motor Rifle Regiment (6000 pts)
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
