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Not to mention the Stormraider's similarity to a "flying Land Raider" is directly acknowledged in the GK codex.

Void__Dragon wrote:"He unleashed sanctified flame again amongst the writhing jungles of Nurgle's domain, and for a long time the gusting Warp-winds carried only a charcoal stench and the tortured screaming of daemonic vegetation."

The Garden didn't just grow back instantly, it took time.

Draigo accomplishes more against Chaos than any other Grey Knight.

He walked into the Garden of Nurgle and burned it to ash.

You can't seriously read that and think that's fine, let alone good fluff.

The futile struggle against Chaos was already prevalent in the fluff. Some douchebag who runs around the Warp burning down the entire domains of the Chaos Gods doesn't need to be created to convey that.

Hahahahahahahha no.

Draigo accomplishes a ton of stuff that is never permanent. He can only sometimes even help against a daemonic incursion, when he is a part of it.

On the other hand regular GK can respond to any incursion and actually save imperial lives rather than just mucking up nurgle's stupid garden that grows back the next day.

ph34r wrote:Hahahahahahahha no.

Draigo accomplishes a ton of stuff that is never permanent. He can only sometimes even help against a daemonic incursion, when he is a part of it.

On the other hand regular GK can respond to any incursion and actually save imperial lives rather than just mucking up nurgle's stupid garden that grows back the next day.

Nothing the GK do is ever permanent, short of the occasional good day where they get to bind a Daemon.

"Long time" does not typically imply it took a single day.

Draigo has destroyed two of the God's realms personally, which probably stalled their Daemonic servants more than anything short of outright binding ever could.

Draigo could theoretically be a good character concept, were he not so incredibly over the top.

Nothing about the passage reads off as tragic IMHO.

Yeah, but how many lives does burning nurgle's dumbass garden save? Zero.


How many lives do regular GK save? Lots.

The passage may not read as tragic, but Draigo is really quite useless upon inspection.

We can never know if wrecking the stuff in the warp actually takes any effort for the big 4 to rebuild. Also since most daemons are summoned in by worshippers, who knows if what they do in their free time in the warp matters at all.

ph34r wrote:Yeah, but how many lives does burning nurgle's dumbass garden save? Zero.


How many lives do regular GK save? Lots.

The passage may not read as tragic, but Draigo is really quite useless upon inspection.

We can never know if wrecking the stuff in the warp actually takes any effort for the big 4 to rebuild. Also since most daemons are summoned in by worshippers, who knows if what they do in their free time in the warp matters at all.

Grey Knights save lives? I was under the impression that anyone who so much as sees a Daemon or Grey Knight is executed.

I'm not saying Draigo was not intended to be tragic, that's very possible, even likely.

I'm saying the execution was IMO botched when translated onto paper, due to the over the top nature of the things he does, as well as the optimistic way it was written. I can even admit Draigo is a potentially cool concept, but... I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who beats the gak out of everything in the Warp without even the implication that anything can challenge him there (Obviously, the Gods themselves being exceptions to this). I have no problem with Draigo being incorruptible in the Warp either, as some have. But as said, Grey Knights, though immune to being corrupted by Chaos, are not immune to their powers. I find Draigo even being capable of surviving being near the Garden of Nurgle odd, considering it is the single greatest concentration of Nurgle's poxes and plagues in the Warp or out of it.

Oh, this reminds me, what happens to a Daemon if it is killed in the Warp? I honestly have no idea.

Draigo's story isn't meant to be tragic. It's meant to show his super-awesomeness. He's so invincible that not even being in hell itself can phase him. He goes around kicking the Chaos Gods in the balls on daily basis on their own turf. But what can they do? Nothing, for he is Lord Draigo.

Wait, did he really make it to the Inevitable City and burn it down? If so, everyone's, "Nah, Draigo's fluff is fine," argument immediately fails. No exceptions.

Void__Dragon wrote:
Oh, this reminds me, what happens to a Daemon if it is killed in the Warp? I honestly have no idea.

Nothing exceptional happens. They spring back up immediately somewhere else.

Draigo will inevitably die there. No deamon he fights ever will. That's why there's nothing wrong with his fluff. It is a microcosm of the entire setting.

Seaward wrote:Wait, did he really make it to the Inevitable City and burn it down? If so, everyone's, "Nah, Draigo's fluff is fine," argument immediately fails. No exceptions.

Not really. The city is almost immediately rebuilt, and hes torn it down many times, each time the same thing happens. Hence his accomplishments are meaningless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
Oh, this reminds me, what happens to a Daemon if it is killed in the Warp? I honestly have no idea.

Nothing exceptional happens. They spring back up immediately somewhere else.

Draigo will inevitably die there. No deamon he fights ever will. That's why there's nothing wrong with his fluff. It is a microcosm of the entire setting.

They don't spring up immediately. They return to become part of their God, who then decides when its reborn.

iproxtaco wrote:

Seaward wrote:Wait, did he really make it to the Inevitable City and burn it down? If so, everyone's, "Nah, Draigo's fluff is fine," argument immediately fails. No exceptions.

Not really. The city is almost immediately rebuilt, and hes torn it down many times, each time the same thing happens. Hence his accomplishments are meaningless.

1) One man has repeatedly gotten to a city that is impossible for unwarped mortals to get to.

2) One man has repeatedly torn that city down. Alone.

Personally, I'd want to think long and hard about throwing in with the side that says, "Yeah, one guy in Terminator armor can take down a city by himself. He's really, really good at killing cities because of his super-special anti-inhabitant training!"

The people who think this drivel is perfectly fine and those who laugh at it are simply never going to see eye to eye, unfortunately.

Draigo, is a god of Chaos!

This is the only possible explanation.

Hey! Malal not good enough for you?

CpatTom wrote:Draigo, is a god of Chaos!

This is the only possible explanation.

No....
The Emperor protects!!!

Brother Coa wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Draigo, is a god of Chaos!

This is the only possible explanation.

No....
The Emperor protects!!!

You know what Coa? I'm starting to thing you're a fellow Templar. It's the only way to explain your constant faith in the Emperor in every single thread.

A character's symbolism/hidden context is never an excuse for bad writing. Heck, 90% of all environmental films were complete drivel.

There also the fact that it IS possible to permanently harm Daemons. Remember the power Holocaust? The one that was accessible to everyone in Daemonhunters rather than being restricted to one unit? It perma kills anything.

I don't think anyone can deny that Ward has a terrible writing style. His ideas and concepts vary hugely, but his technical skill is consistently bad. This is an example of good to meh concept ruined by shoddy writing.

^That, most will agree with.

But, this is the internet, so I must take to the opposite side of the argument just to continue the thread.

I believe that Ward is an excellent writer, as shown by his wonderful grammar and sentence structure, utilized to highlight the wonderful thematic elements sown throughout his prose. Draigo for example, takes the story of Sysiphus and applies it to the grim dark universe of 40k splendidly well. By allowing Draigo to accomplish all of his desire day in and day out, but have them all come to naught, Ward brilliantly exposes the failures of the Grey Knight organization, and The Imperium of Man as a whole. All in all, i give Draigo, and his brilliantly constructed story, 5 out of 5 stars.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Draigo, is a god of Chaos!

This is the only possible explanation.

No....
The Emperor protects!!!

You know what Coa? I'm starting to thing you're a fellow Templar. It's the only way to explain your constant faith in the Emperor in every single thread.

I am Brother Coa, captain of the Blood Raven's 1'st company. Purge of Xenos, repent of Heretics, purger of Mutants, servant of the Emperor.
At your disposal brother Walrus

Brother Coa wrote:

Zid wrote:
Basically hes saying Draigo > the Emperor... Which, if by that reasoning is true, then lolz.

No......just no.....
Emperor psychic power is Draigo x 1.000.000%

Surprisingly, this.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I dunno. I think the reason why the Chaos gods haven't just squished him is because they can't. He's just too powerful. Afterall Draigo isn't just a dude with some geneseed. He's the greatest Grey Knight Grandmaster ever. He's the best of the best from a chapter that's specifically designed to destroy Chaos. If anyone can beat a Chaos god it's Draigo. Most likely the only reason why he hasn't already done it already is because he hasn't been able to find the Chaos gods. They're probably hiding from him because they're scared - and for good reason!

No. No. No. No. You know the way sometimes there's a fly buzzing around your head when you're doing something interesting and you don't squish it, you ignore it. Draigo is that fly. If anyone can beat a Chaos god, and they can't, it's still not Draigo. Going back to the fly image, would you hide from one just because it buzzed a bit?

Durza wrote: Going back to the fly image, would you hide from one just because it buzzed a bit?

I'd give serious thought to killing it if it burned my house down seven or eight times. Yeah, insurance keeps slapping it right back up, but it's still fething annoying.

Say you and your friends are hanging out in your Super Impenetrable Fortress of Doom(tm).

One day, this superhero jerk shows up inside of your SIFD. He didn't end on getting inside, and he's stuck. He wants to destroy everything...but because of your superevilgenius powers, you and your friends have him trapped in there with you. He can't get to you or your friends, he just constantly has to fight your unending tide of minions and occasionally breaks something valuable (which your minions fix in between waves of them rushing the superhero jerk and dying en masse).

Would you kill it--or start placing bets on how long it lasts?

Or continue playing games against each other?

CpatTom wrote:^That, most will agree with.

But, this is the internet, so I must take to the opposite side of the argument just to continue the thread.

I believe that Ward is an excellent writer, as shown by his wonderful grammar and sentence structure, utilized to highlight the wonderful thematic elements sown throughout his prose. Draigo for example, takes the story of Sysiphus and applies it to the grim dark universe of 40k splendidly well. By allowing Draigo to accomplish all of his desire day in and day out, but have them all come to naught, Ward brilliantly exposes the failures of the Grey Knight organization, and The Imperium of Man as a whole. All in all, i give Draigo, and his brilliantly constructed story, 5 out of 5 stars.

I laughed, hard. That being said, hasn't GW come out and said that fluff written even in the codex is a possible load of bs, lies, and fanboy wetdreams, like itn is with Black Library? It makes me think that almost everything in the GK 'dex is a load of concentrated hyperbole.

Durza wrote:Or continue playing games against each other?

Who says you have to stop?

One day Khorne's Bloodletters lead Draigo on a merry chase through Nurgle's gardens, next thing you know everything's on fire and Nurgle's calling shenanigans!

Kanluwen wrote:Say you and your friends are hanging out in your Super Impenetrable Fortress of Doom(tm).

One day, this superhero jerk shows up inside of your SIFD. He didn't end on getting inside, and he's stuck. He wants to destroy everything...but because of your superevilgenius powers, you and your friends have him trapped in there with you. He can't get to you or your friends, he just constantly has to fight your unending tide of minions and occasionally breaks something valuable (which your minions fix in between waves of them rushing the superhero jerk and dying en masse).

Would you kill it--or start placing bets on how long it lasts?

Depends. Am I a Bond villain or a pragmatist?

Bond villain.

The Ruinous Powers are, at heart, Bond villains with the powers of gods.

Kanluwen wrote:Bond villain.

The Ruinous Powers are, at heart, Bond villains with the powers of gods.

I dunno about that. They're winning, after all. Tzeentch especially plays a long game.

If you're a Bond villain, of course you leave him out there. You probably taunt him about how he'll never get in and triumph over you in any significant way, too.

If you're a pragmatist playing for the fate of the galaxy, you kill him, because, hey, why risk it? If dude's powerful enough to keep his TDA functioning eternally with nothing more than spit, if he somehow keeps finding ammunition caches for his storm bolter, if he can find his way through a maze best described as a million million Rubik's Cubes that constantly shift in order to set fire to my city, if he can take down a Daemon Primarch alone and unaided...kill it with fire.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

I laughed, hard. That being said, hasn't GW come out and said that fluff written even in the codex is a possible load of bs, lies, and fanboy wetdreams, like itn is with Black Library? It makes me think that almost everything in the GK 'dex is a load of concentrated hyperbole.

I assume everything, everybody says is Hyperbole, especially when its a book about how super awesome my super awesome super soldiers are, and why you should buy them.

Honestly, why would Tzeentch want to get rid of him? He's a perfect lil cow storm of change every single day.

P.S. Love the bond thing thats going on here too. Now I'm imagining Draigo in a suit. And Halle Berry the Sister who some how shows up in the warp to help him.

Kaldor Draigo spends the better part of his time in the warp achieving nothing. Every victory means nothing and its not like the Deamons he kills are embarrassed by the losses because inevitably Draigo is going to die

Lets get this over with once and for all and have Tyranids eat his home world...