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Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Draigo isn't more powerful than the Emperor. He's just more powerful than the Emperor when it comes to fighting Chaos. Afterall, the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor. Can the Emperor waltz around the Realm of Chaos without a Gellar Field? I don't think so.

Except he probably could. If Malcador was powerful enough to hide Titan in the Warp from the Chaos Gods, the Emperor is more than capable enough of hiding himself.

Seaward wrote:I'll say it again: if someone had written up Draigo for their DIY chapter, he'd be regarded as nothing more than an execrable, steaming pile of Mary Sue fanwank. The fact that he has the design studio's stamp of approval on him changes that completely for some people, for reasons unknown.

Only if he did something WAY over the top like hold down a Daemon-Primarch like he's his kid brother and carve a name into his heart.

Maybe he snuck up on mortarion while he was in the toilet or something

Viersche wrote:Maybe he snuck up on mortarion while he was in the toilet or something

Missed the part where he jumped Mortarion just as ol' Mort was catching his breath from completely obliterating the last Supreme Grand Master?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Viersche wrote:Maybe he snuck up on mortarion while he was in the toilet or something

Missed the part where he jumped Mortarion just as ol' Mort was catching his breath from completely obliterating the last Supreme Grand Master?

was supposed to be a joke c'mon

Viersche wrote:Maybe he snuck up on mortarion while he was in the toilet or something

That's why he keeps a gang of Daemon Princes around as his posse.

punkow wrote:Sorry but I do not accept that a TAU says something about RUINING THE BACKGROUND... Matt ward will never ruin the 40k fluff like the mere existence of Tau do.

Sorry that the Tau are not depressed enough for you. Heaven forbid something with enough sense to shoot the enemy instead of poking it with a stick exists in the grim darkness of 40k.

On subject, I really enjoy the fact that Draigo is now more powerful than the Emperor. Daigo's power continues to grow as people believe in his power.... Wait a minute!

I don't know why people get so hung up on Draigo beating Mortarion when he has done so much better.

Primarchs have been defeated before, but to date Draigo is the only person to walk into the Garden of Nurgle and burn it to the ground, or solve the Infinite Labyrinth only to crush the Inevitable City.

To people who call Draigo a cockroach: I don't know about you, but a roach has never burned my house down.

People say that Draigo's exploits accomplish nothing, that every Daemon he kills is just reborn.

I ask you: How is that any different from any other Grey Knight?

Rare is the Grey Knight who actually permanently accomplishes something against Chaos, they can only stall the Daemons they kill.

Every Daemon spending time being curbstomped by Draigo is one not fething gak up in the Materium, and Draigo's burning of the Garden of Nurgle surely stalled the forces of the Plaguefather greater than any other Grey Knight has. In the Warp, Draigo doesn't have to rely on the unreliable precognition of those guys on Titan whose names I forgot nor does he have to wait for Daemons to attack the Materium before he can go feth gak up. He now brings the fight directly to them.

Draigo's fluff doesn't come off as "tragic" because there's nothing more tragic about it than the Imperium's standard fight against Chaos, in all honesty it is less so. Not to mentioned how over the top and ridiculous it reads.

Void__Dragon wrote:
I ask you: How is that any different from any other Grey Knight?

It isn't, which is the entire point. His predicament is representative of the Grey Knights' struggle. And the roach example would be more valid if your house reformed as soon as anything happens to it. He's not doing permanent damage to anything.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:It isn't, which is the entire point. His predicament is representative of the Grey Knights' struggle. And the roach example would be more valid if your house reformed as soon as anything happens to it. He's not doing permanent damage to anything.

"He unleashed sanctified flame again amongst the writhing jungles of Nurgle's domain, and for a long time the gusting Warp-winds carried only a charcoal stench and the tortured screaming of daemonic vegetation."

The Garden didn't just grow back instantly, it took time.

Draigo accomplishes more against Chaos than any other Grey Knight.

He walked into the Garden of Nurgle and burned it to ash.

You can't seriously read that and think that's fine, let alone good fluff.

The futile struggle against Chaos was already prevalent in the fluff. Some douchebag who runs around the Warp burning down the entire domains of the Chaos Gods doesn't need to be created to convey that.

If Draigo's struggle is supposed to be presented as futile and sad, the book does a pretty bad job of supporting that theme. It's far too optimistic, and it still presents his achievements with adulation.

Also, even if it could work logically, it doesn't feel good for Death Guard/Chaos to have Mortarion humiliated just to make Draigo look better. A Daemon Primarch shouldn't be like Worf from Star Trek.

Then Draigo just goes off the deep end with getting bigger and bigger accomplishments, to the point that he almost seems to step into parody.

punkow wrote:Sorry but I do not accept that a TAU says something about RUINING THE BACKGROUND... Matt ward will never ruin the 40k fluff like the mere existence of Tau do.

Why are you whining about the Tau?

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Wait a minute?! Neither do I. That's because it doesn't exist, and you're making it up that someone said he was being tortured.

It was not you who indicated that he is not super bad ass at all but mere prisoner and that he is suffering every day by the hand of Chaos Gods? ( something with his all deeds are useless because in Warp everything is rebuild again so his entire effort is for nothing and that means that Chaos Gods are torturing him and enjoy? I learned that from you ).

Nope. I indicated that he was powerful, super bad ass if you will, and that the Chaos Gods enjoy watching his escapades as they are insignificant. I NEVER SAID HE WAS BEING TORTURED, THAT'S YOUR OWN FABRICATION.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:"Generally, the Custodes are larger and more powerful than Space Marines..."

"Originally, they were equipped with the best power armour of the age, and had access to the same type of equipment and weapons as had the Space Marine Legions. Equipment which was characteristic of the Custodes would influence the equipment of the later Grey Knights. After the confinement of the Emperor within the Golden Throne, the Custodes abandoned, among other things, the use of their armour, and their traditional colour of red was changed to black."

/Custodian discussion

They're larger and individually more powerful than the Astartes, but they don't have the teamwork that the Astartes have. Seriously, this has been said how many times now?

Being individually powerful is much more useful than teamwork.

Would marbo destroy armies if he attacked in formation? no.

The major flaw in that reasoning being that Grey Knights are individually better than a single Custode, two will be better than three, three will be better than five, and so on and so forth. Being individually powerful AND using teamwork is much superior than having just the former. Custodes are at a major disadvantage. Deal with it.

Either way comparison is flawed. GK are meant to teleport onto a field, kill a leader, and let allies mop up the mess.

Custodes are meant to protect the Emperor, the Imperial Palace, and Terra. They are also trained in assassination, and (presumably, based on their jetbikes, fling rhinos, and leaner, more form fitting armour) prefer speed.

It's a perfectly fine comparison. Saying it's flawed is a sign that you've finally run our out of bogus information to spew at us.

And the reason AC armour is better than GK armour is that it offers atleast as much protection with greatly enhanced mobility, due to not having as much bulk.

Evidence for offering at least as much protection. Grey Knight armour is the most up-to-date Power Armour available, crafted specifically for them. Custodes armour was good 10,000 years ago, now, not so much.

2. What are you TALKING ABOUT? They are not, in any sense, individually superior. We had already gotten past the fact that a custodian legionnary would break a GK in individual combat. Now picture that happening 1000x, and each time being 10-1. Also, they are not as weak as you all seem to think in regards to psykers, as the one time they were pictured fighting psykers was written from the point of view from one of the four most powerful sorcerers in a legion of sorcerers who utilised the fullest extent of their power possible, without using a psychic hood either. To even consider comparing a rank and file GK to a Sorcerer (sorcerer>psyker) who's power was roughly 1:2500 among the most psychically power legion is just silly. Comparing him even to Tigurius would be ridiculous.

3. No, saying it's flawed is like saying "it's flawed". The Custodes draw more paralles to the Officio Assassinorum than to the GK. Incidentally, assassins rape GK.

4. Up-to-date means nothing outside of the Tau where 40k is concerned. Haven't you learned the #2 rule of the IoM? The older, the more high-tech. Also, in just about every BL book ever, bolts ignore PA as if it were cloth, whereas in the 1st heretic, Vendatha survived a FULL bolter clip in the face, and his helmet held. Also, it took him being beheaded by twin power swords and having his head mounted on a pike to kill him...eventually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Draigo isn't more powerful than the Emperor. He's just more powerful than the Emperor when it comes to fighting Chaos. Afterall, the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor. Can the Emperor waltz around the Realm of Chaos without a Gellar Field? I don't think so.

When it comes to fighting Chaos Draigo is pretty much described as being invincible. If only he had been around during the Heresy! He would have undoubtedly kicked Horus' ass. Alone and unaided.

So much troll...

Are you forgetting that the chaos gods keep KD around for gaks and giggles, and that they desperately wanted to kill the Emperor because he was a threat to their existence but couldn't.

And really? The Emperor doesn't have faith in the Emperor is your logic? He has literally infinite willpower.

im2randomghgh wrote:2. What are you TALKING ABOUT? They are not, in any sense, individually superior. We had already gotten past the fact that a custodian legionnary would break a GK in individual combat. Now picture that happening 1000x, and each time being 10-1. Also, they are not as weak as you all seem to think in regards to psykers, as the one time they were pictured fighting psykers was written from the point of view from one of the four most powerful sorcerers in a legion of sorcerers who utilised the fullest extent of their power possible, without using a psychic hood either. To even consider comparing a rank and file GK to a Sorcerer (sorcerer>psyker) who's power was roughly 1:2500 among the most psychically power legion is just silly. Comparing him even to Tigurius would be ridiculous.

Dude have some consistency in your arguments. Last time this discussion came up, you said Thousand Sons sorcerers were weaker than Librarians, now you're implying Phosis T'kar was stronger than Tigurius? Lol what?

Also, hammerhand kind of makes the Grey Knight physically superior, plus better teamwork and cooperation.

3. No, saying it's flawed is like saying "it's flawed". The Custodes draw more paralles to the Officio Assassinorum than to the GK. Incidentally, assassins rape GK.

A Culexus Assassin maybe. When have assassins "raped" GK?

Also, in just about every BL book ever, bolts ignore PA as if it were cloth, whereas in the 1st heretic, Vendatha survived a FULL bolter clip in the face, and his helmet held. Also, it took him being beheaded by twin power swords and having his head mounted on a pike to kill him...eventually.

Stop assuming that "Dan Abnett's books" is the equivelant to "every BL book ever."

gak, I'm reading Eisenhorn right now, and in Xenos, a Marine takes a salvo of bolter fire to the chest and is uninjured.

So even Dan Abnett seems to be mostly aware of how durable power armour is.

I've not read the fluff but Void_Dragon's supposed defense of it is just making more and more 'wtf' towards it...

I don't think defense was the word you were looking for, lol.

Nuff said...

Void__Dragon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:It isn't, which is the entire point. His predicament is representative of the Grey Knights' struggle. And the roach example would be more valid if your house reformed as soon as anything happens to it. He's not doing permanent damage to anything.

"He unleashed sanctified flame again amongst the writhing jungles of Nurgle's domain, and for a long time the gusting Warp-winds carried only a charcoal stench and the tortured screaming of daemonic vegetation."

The Garden didn't just grow back instantly, it took time.

Draigo accomplishes more against Chaos than any other Grey Knight.

He walked into the Garden of Nurgle and burned it to ash.

You can't seriously read that and think that's fine, let alone good fluff.

The futile struggle against Chaos was already prevalent in the fluff. Some douchebag who runs around the Warp burning down the entire domains of the Chaos Gods doesn't need to be created to convey that.

Nurgle is creeping death though...makes sense to me that the garden would grow back slowly.

Brother Coa wrote:[youtube]
Nuff said...

Those comments So much butthurt

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:2. What are you TALKING ABOUT? They are not, in any sense, individually superior. We had already gotten past the fact that a custodian legionnary would break a GK in individual combat. Now picture that happening 1000x, and each time being 10-1. Also, they are not as weak as you all seem to think in regards to psykers, as the one time they were pictured fighting psykers was written from the point of view from one of the four most powerful sorcerers in a legion of sorcerers who utilised the fullest extent of their power possible, without using a psychic hood either. To even consider comparing a rank and file GK to a Sorcerer (sorcerer>psyker) who's power was roughly 1:2500 among the most psychically power legion is just silly. Comparing him even to Tigurius would be ridiculous.

Dude have some consistency in your arguments. Last time this discussion came up, you said Thousand Sons sorcerers were weaker than Librarians, now you're implying Phosis T'kar was stronger than Tigurius? Lol what?

Also, hammerhand kind of makes the Grey Knight physically superior, plus better teamwork and cooperation.

3. No, saying it's flawed is like saying "it's flawed". The Custodes draw more paralles to the Officio Assassinorum than to the GK. Incidentally, assassins rape GK.

A Culexus Assassin maybe. When have assassins "raped" GK?

Also, in just about every BL book ever, bolts ignore PA as if it were cloth, whereas in the 1st heretic, Vendatha survived a FULL bolter clip in the face, and his helmet held. Also, it took him being beheaded by twin power swords and having his head mounted on a pike to kill him...eventually.

Stop assuming that "Dan Abnett's books" is the equivelant to "every BL book ever."

gak, I'm reading Eisenhorn right now, and in Xenos, a Marine takes a salvo of bolter fire to the chest and is uninjured.

So even Dan Abnett seems to be mostly aware of how durable power armour is.

1. Inferior as in "They might have their souls eaten". Can't deny they get results. Plus hammerhand is nothing compared to knowing what your opponent is going to do before he does it, in the most literal sense. But as to Hammerhand vs. Custodes, it would TEMPERORARILY make them not at a disadvantage. There IS a distinction.

2. Fluff examples of Assassin vs. GK would be quite odd, so I am going by TT stats. And I am betting KD would be butt-ugly after a headshot from a turbo-penetrator round. In fluff I can't see individual GK beating assassins one-on-one, ever.

3. Not just Dan Abnett, ever picked up the SM short story collections? Every single author describes bolts as easily penetrating marine armour, to the point where a bolt pistol round from a Novamarine went into his gut, and out the back, and almost penetrated the artificer armour of the librarian behind him in "Trial of the Mantis Warriors".

Also, in another SS, a combat knife passed through the breast plate of a traitor marine like it was paper. And the astartes who was stabbing was so heavily wounded it's amazing his sus-an organ hadn't knocked him out yet. And the breast plate is the single most durable part of the armour.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Inferior as in "They might have their souls eaten". Can't deny they get results. Plus hammerhand is nothing compared to knowing what your opponent is going to do before he does it, in the most literal sense. But as to Hammerhand vs. Custodes, it would TEMPERORARILY make them not at a disadvantage. There IS a distinction.

It doesn't really require much concentration for a Grey Knight to use Hammerhand. And Phosis T'kar nor Hathoor Maat were Corvidae, they didn't predict the movements of the Custodes, they just kind of killed them. Though yes, Phosis T'kar was psychically more powerful than most Grey Knights. But the difference is that all Grey Knights have a good deal of psychic powers, not every Thousand Son did.

2. Fluff examples of Assassin vs. GK would be quite odd, so I am going by TT stats. And I am betting KD would be butt-ugly after a headshot from a turbo-penetrator round. In fluff I can't see individual GK beating assassins one-on-one, ever.

If you go by fluff, a Hive Tyrant is apparently immune to attacks from Wraithlords. This is kind of not the case in the tabletop. Tabletop isn't as incredibly reliable as some think it is IMO. And depends on the Grey Knight.

3. Not just Dan Abnett, ever picked up the SM short story collections? Every single author describes bolts as easily penetrating marine armour, to the point where a bolt pistol round from a Novamarine went into his gut, and out the back, and almost penetrated the artificer armour of the librarian behind him in "Trial of the Mantis Warriors".

Yet I haven't read anything like this. Odd. Especially since it's pretty evident a Marine can tank bolter fire in his armour, hell, a Marine in Fallen Angels withstands a short salvo of heavy bolter rounds.

Also, in another SS, a combat knife passed through the breast plate of a traitor marine like it was paper. And the astartes who was stabbing was so heavily wounded it's amazing his sus-an organ hadn't knocked him out yet. And the breast plate is the single most durable part of the armour.

I'm kind of doubting the truth of this claim, no offense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ironsight wrote:Nurgle is creeping death though...makes sense to me that the garden would grow back slowly.

Perhaps.

But that's not really what I'm saying, which is that, if Ward intended Draigo to be a tragic, depressing character, he failed pretty miserably to convey that, IMO.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Inferior as in "They might have their souls eaten". Can't deny they get results. Plus hammerhand is nothing compared to knowing what your opponent is going to do before he does it, in the most literal sense. But as to Hammerhand vs. Custodes, it would TEMPERORARILY make them not at a disadvantage. There IS a distinction.

It doesn't really require much concentration for a Grey Knight to use Hammerhand. And Phosis T'kar nor Hathoor Maat were Corvidae, they didn't predict the movements of the Custodes, they just kind of killed them. Though yes, Phosis T'kar was psychically more powerful than most Grey Knights. But the difference is that all Grey Knights have a good deal of psychic powers, not every Thousand Son did.

2. Fluff examples of Assassin vs. GK would be quite odd, so I am going by TT stats. And I am betting KD would be butt-ugly after a headshot from a turbo-penetrator round. In fluff I can't see individual GK beating assassins one-on-one, ever.

If you go by fluff, a Hive Tyrant is apparently immune to attacks from Wraithlords. This is kind of not the case in the tabletop. Tabletop isn't as incredibly reliable as some think it is IMO. And depends on the Grey Knight.

3. Not just Dan Abnett, ever picked up the SM short story collections? Every single author describes bolts as easily penetrating marine armour, to the point where a bolt pistol round from a Novamarine went into his gut, and out the back, and almost penetrated the artificer armour of the librarian behind him in "Trial of the Mantis Warriors".

Yet I haven't read anything like this. Odd. Especially since it's pretty evident a Marine can tank bolter fire in his armour, hell, a Marine in Fallen Angels withstands a short salvo of heavy bolter rounds.

Also, in another SS, a combat knife passed through the breast plate of a traitor marine like it was paper. And the astartes who was stabbing was so heavily wounded it's amazing his sus-an organ hadn't knocked him out yet. And the breast plate is the single most durable part of the armour.

I'm kind of doubting the truth of this claim, no offense.

I am feeling lazy, so I'll only bother to respond to the last part



Seriously. The stabbing took place pages 360-361.

im2randomghgh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:"Generally, the Custodes are larger and more powerful than Space Marines..."

"Originally, they were equipped with the best power armour of the age, and had access to the same type of equipment and weapons as had the Space Marine Legions. Equipment which was characteristic of the Custodes would influence the equipment of the later Grey Knights. After the confinement of the Emperor within the Golden Throne, the Custodes abandoned, among other things, the use of their armour, and their traditional colour of red was changed to black."

/Custodian discussion

They're larger and individually more powerful than the Astartes, but they don't have the teamwork that the Astartes have. Seriously, this has been said how many times now?

Being individually powerful is much more useful than teamwork.

Would marbo destroy armies if he attacked in formation? no.

The major flaw in that reasoning being that Grey Knights are individually better than a single Custode, two will be better than three, three will be better than five, and so on and so forth. Being individually powerful AND using teamwork is much superior than having just the former. Custodes are at a major disadvantage. Deal with it.

Either way comparison is flawed. GK are meant to teleport onto a field, kill a leader, and let allies mop up the mess.

Custodes are meant to protect the Emperor, the Imperial Palace, and Terra. They are also trained in assassination, and (presumably, based on their jetbikes, fling rhinos, and leaner, more form fitting armour) prefer speed.

It's a perfectly fine comparison. Saying it's flawed is a sign that you've finally run our out of bogus information to spew at us.

And the reason AC armour is better than GK armour is that it offers atleast as much protection with greatly enhanced mobility, due to not having as much bulk.

Evidence for offering at least as much protection. Grey Knight armour is the most up-to-date Power Armour available, crafted specifically for them. Custodes armour was good 10,000 years ago, now, not so much.

2. What are you TALKING ABOUT? They are not, in any sense, individually superior. We had already gotten past the fact that a custodian legionnary would break a GK in individual combat. Now picture that happening 1000x, and each time being 10-1. Also, they are not as weak as you all seem to think in regards to psykers, as the one time they were pictured fighting psykers was written from the point of view from one of the four most powerful sorcerers in a legion of sorcerers who utilised the fullest extent of their power possible, without using a psychic hood either. To even consider comparing a rank and file GK to a Sorcerer (sorcerer>psyker) who's power was roughly 1:2500 among the most psychically power legion is just silly. Comparing him even to Tigurius would be ridiculous.[/quote

No, we had not established that, at all. You independently believe that despite the evidence presented against the point. If your average Custode is equal to your average Astartes, and Grey Knights are much superior in every sense to your average Custode, then your average Grey Knight is better than your average Custode.
I'm still betting that a Grey Knight is going to cut down a bunch of Custodes with relative ease.

3. No, saying it's flawed is like saying "it's flawed". The Custodes draw more paralles to the Officio Assassinorum than to the GK. Incidentally, assassins rape GK.

It's still not flawed at all. Custodes are still heavy duty warriors that protect the Emperor during battle, they sometimes take on the role of spies and undercover agents, but that's not what they were made for. They're power armoured and bio engineered. The comparison is fine, you're still butt-hurt that Grey Knights are so obviously better and you have nothing to counter me with.

4. Up-to-date means nothing outside of the Tau where 40k is concerned. Haven't you learned the #2 rule of the IoM? The older, the more high-tech. Also, in just about every BL book ever, bolts ignore PA as if it were cloth, whereas in the 1st heretic, Vendatha survived a FULL bolter clip in the face, and his helmet held. Also, it took him being beheaded by twin power swords and having his head mounted on a pike to kill him...eventually.

Not in the case of Power Armour. The more recent models are superior to the old Heresy-Era suits. If that weren't true, then the Grey Knights would stockpile them, but they don't, they have new suits made by a Forge World because they're better.
As Void_Dragon has already said, Dan Abnett makes up a relatively small fraction of BL Space Marine publications. His accounts are at the very low end of the scale, and are far from the norm. Which, by the way, is that Power Armour can take many hits from Bolters without failing. Talos takes the combined fire-power of about five Asartes firing full-auto through a door and they don't penetrate to produce the explosive results. His armour is severely damaged, but Talos was alive. In better state than Vendatha, whose helmet did not hold. You could see his face through it. He was pretty much down by that point. He was not beheaded. Argel Tal expected a blade to the mouth would end it, but he somehow survived. Seriously, stop spewing gak and read what you reference. Could have been Warp trickery to keep him as a sacrifice.

im2randomghgh wrote:
I am feeling lazy, so I'll only bother to respond to the last part

Spoiler:

In legends of the space marines, in the short story called "The Last Detail" By Paul Kearney, a wounded space marine from the Dark Hunters chapter was helped out of rubble and stripped of his (powerless) armour by a local farmer and his son. This already crippled, armour less astartes (Who was described as 9' feet tall w.o armour, and his bolter was described as bigger than the farmer's ~12 yr old son) had a full-auto las-burst pumped into his abdomen, and then fought a traitor marine in full armour who easily wrestled him to the ground. The traitor marine was distracted by the farmer and his son (who went on to join the astartes) distracted the traitor who was about to execute the SM with his bolt pistol, and while the traitor (who apparently had priority issues) was turned away, he swiped his knife and stabbed bother his hearts.

Seriously. The stabbing took place pages 360-361.

Sounds like throwaway fiction by some trial-writer. Stories like that aren't good sources of information.

I stopped taking it seriously when I read "Nine feet out of power armour" personally.

@ IProxtaco

You are absolutely so far off the mark, it is astounding.

It is only logical that the Emperor would use sub-par warriors as his last line of defense and only defense against infiltrating opponents, right?

I swear. Think before you post. The Legion Custodes are the absolute most powerful warriors ever created by humanity. With the exception of Primarchs, there simply aren't any warriors who can hold a flame to them.

Plus, unlike Custodes, GK know fear. In their own omnibus, Alaric was TERRIFIED that he would be the first Grey Knight to fall to chaos. This combined with their reliance upon their brothers is a good portion of why they simply pale in comparison to the Legio Custodes.

Also, notice how their weapons are all imitations of Custodes equipment? Just sayin'

PLUS Custodes had flying Rhinos.

im2randomghgh wrote:@ IProxtaco

You are absolutely so far off the mark, it is astounding.

It is only logical that the Emperor would use sub-par warriors as his last line of defense and only defense against infiltrating opponents, right?

I swear. Think before you post. The Legion Custodes are the absolute most powerful warriors ever created by humanity. With the exception of Primarchs, there simply aren't any warriors who can hold a flame to them.

Plus, unlike Custodes, GK know fear. In their own omnibus, Alaric was TERRIFIED that he would be the first Grey Knight to fall to chaos. This combined with their reliance upon their brothers is a good portion of why they simply pale in comparison to the Legio Custodes.

Also, notice how their weapons are all imitations of Custodes equipment? Just sayin'

PLUS Custodes had flying Rhinos.

I'm far off the mark? You have literally NOTHING to refute mine and others arguments.

Grey Knight weaponry was influenced by the Custodes, 10,000 years ago. Read the quotes in the thread, just sayin'.

Didn't Valdor look at a fleshchanged Phosis T'kar with fear in A Thousand Sons?

Void__Dragon wrote:Didn't Valdor look at a fleshchanged Phosis T'kar with fear in A Thousand Sons?

No.

It wasn't from his PoV anyways.

im2randomghgh wrote:PLUS Custodes had flying Rhinos.

See this? It's a flying Land Raider. That's a Psyker. And has the essence of a star eating god in it.

You make me laugh.

Chowderhead wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:PLUS Custodes had flying Rhinos.

See this? It's a flying Land Raider. That's a Psyker. And has the essence of a star eating god in it.

You make me laugh.

It looks like a land raider. It isn't.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:PLUS Custodes had flying Rhinos.

See this? It's a flying Land Raider. That's a Psyker. And has the essence of a star eating god in it.

You make me laugh.

It looks like a land raider. It isn't.

It's a moot point. My point is, sure, a flying Rhino is cool, but a Stormraven is much better.