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I'll say it again: if someone had written up Draigo for their DIY chapter, he'd be regarded as nothing more than an execrable, steaming pile of Mary Sue fanwank. The fact that he has the design studio's stamp of approval on him changes that completely for some people, for reasons unknown.

Seaward wrote:I'll say it again: if someone had written up Draigo for their DIY chapter, he'd be regarded as nothing more than an execrable, steaming pile of Mary Sue fanwank. The fact that he has the design studio's stamp of approval on him changes that completely for some people, for reasons unknown.

That's because Draigo is literally the master of chapter masters of the chapter dedicated solely to destroying daemons.


DIY chapters are not that.


But don't let me stop you from being mad for no reason.

ph34r wrote:

Seaward wrote:I'll say it again: if someone had written up Draigo for their DIY chapter, he'd be regarded as nothing more than an execrable, steaming pile of Mary Sue fanwank. The fact that he has the design studio's stamp of approval on him changes that completely for some people, for reasons unknown.

That's because Draigo is literally the master of chapter masters of the chapter dedicated solely to destroying daemons.


DIY chapters are not that.


But don't let me stop you from being mad for no reason.

"Mad" is going rather overboard; I'm capable of calling a spade a spade without becoming angry at the spade for being a spade. If you think Khal Drogo Kaldor Draigo is a well-written character, more power to you, I suppose.

Wait. Wait, wait WAIT. Did I misread that, or did a space marine beat a demon prince/primarch? I was pretty sure people were exaggerating or something, but does that actually happen?

Isn't Mortarion like the size of a titan, and presumably made of tougher stuff?

spiralingcadaver wrote:Wait. Wait, wait WAIT. Did I misread that, or did a space marine beat a demon prince/primarch? I was pretty sure people were exaggerating or something, but does that actually happen?

Isn't Mortarion like the size of a titan, and presumably made of tougher stuff?

Yep that happened. What is worse - he beat him alone ( + he beat his guards before that ). Then while he was unconscious Draigo carved the name of his dead master on his heart.

spiralingcadaver wrote:Wait. Wait, wait WAIT. Did I misread that, or did a space marine beat a demon prince/primarch? I was pretty sure people were exaggerating or something, but does that actually happen?

Isn't Mortarion like the size of a titan, and presumably made of tougher stuff?

Daemon Mortarion has marines coming up to his knees, according to the Lexicanum picture.

Also, he fought two Grand Masters in a row. It's understandable that even a Daemon Primarch has his limits. Angron had a bodyguard of 12 Bloodthirsters and that force couldn't kill 100 Grey Knight Terminators. Angron is one of the greatest hand-to-hand fighters among the Primarchs and has the backing of a Chaos God who is all about martial prowess, as well as 12 incredibly vicious and bloodthirsty Daemons who live for combat. Mortarion didn't show particular combat aptitude as a Primarch and has the backing of a Chaos God who is about slow-moving decay. His bodyguard is unspecified, so we don't know if it's twelve Great Unclean Ones, a single Nurgling, or a Nurgle Reaver Titan (Which would be awesome). According to Lexicanum, he had two Deathguard legionnaires as his bodyguards before the Heresy, but who knows if these are the same ones he had while fighting Draigo.

I think the fluff is stupid, especially since it's so brief and couldn't just stop at one ridiculous feat, but Mortarion losing is not unfluffy for my perception. Poorly-written fluff does not have to be wrong, it just has to be poorly-written.

spiralingcadaver wrote:Wait. Wait, wait WAIT. Did I misread that, or did a space marine beat a demon prince/primarch? I was pretty sure people were exaggerating or something, but does that actually happen?

Isn't Mortarion like the size of a titan, and presumably made of tougher stuff?

Mortarion is not the size of a titan.

Mortarion was beat by the greatest grandmaster of the Emperor's secret last ditch strategy to create space marine capable of defeating daemons. It is completely logical. If one of the Emperor's greatest final plans did nothing, that would be a great failure on his part. Who else is going to fight the daemon primarchs if not the grandmaster of the space marines designed by the Emperor to do that very exact thing?

And mortarion literally had just killed one GK supreme grand master before Draigo stepped up.

And Draigo ended up damned to the warp for all eternity in either case.

So what's your beef, brudda?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Molten Butter wrote:Also, he fought two Grand Masters in a row. It's understandable that even a Daemon Primarch has his limits. Angron had a bodyguard of 12 Bloodthirsters and that force couldn't kill 100 Grey Knight Terminators. Angron is one of the greatest hand-to-hand fighters among the Primarchs and has the backing of a Chaos God who is all about martial prowess, as well as 12 incredibly vicious and bloodthirsty Daemons who live for combat. Mortarion didn't show particular combat aptitude as a Primarch and has the backing of a Chaos God who is about slow-moving decay. His bodyguard is unspecified, so we don't know if it's twelve Great Unclean Ones, a single Nurgling, or a Nurgle Reaver Titan (Which would be awesome). According to Lexicanum, he had two Deathguard legionnaires as his bodyguards before the Heresy, but who knows if these are the same ones he had while fighting Draigo.

True dat. Everyone forgets that while Mortarion was beat by the Supreme Grandmaster of the GK alone, Angron was banished by a mere GK brother-captain, also alone. He had 99 buddies, but the story explicitly describes how the brother-captain busts through the mess and is the only one to reach Angron in time to stop him.

Molten Butter wrote:Mortarion didn't show particular combat aptitude as a Primarch and has the backing of a Chaos God who is about slow-moving decay. His bodyguard is unspecified, so we don't know if it's twelve Great Unclean Ones, a single Nurgling, or a Nurgle Reaver Titan (Which would be awesome). According to Lexicanum, he had two Deathguard legionnaires as his bodyguards before the Heresy, but who knows if these are the same ones he had while fighting Draigo.

I wouldn't agree with you in regards to Mortarion, sure he's in no way as much of a combatant as Angron nor blessed with the finesse of Fulgrim, but look how Garro describes him in Flight of the Eisenstein. He is a slugger and tough as nails.

When the Heresy broke out Mortarions bodyguard were the Deathshroud, Terminators like you say.

You make a good point, that Mortarion had just killed one grand master. Having time to carve his name into his heart is a bit silly though, unless he is Zorro.

ph34r wrote:True dat. Everyone forgets that while Mortarion was beat by the Supreme Grandmaster of the GK alone, Angron was banished by a mere GK brother-captain, also alone. He had 99 buddies, but the story explicitly describes how the brother-captain busts through the mess and is the only one to reach Angron in time to stop him.

Kinda correct, Aurellian was in a 1v1 with Angron until he nearly got killed by him. It was a combined psychic attack by the few remaining Grey Knights that done him enough to allow Aurellian to get the killing blow in.

Mortarion's bodyguard is most likely the deathshroud, who are Death Guard Terminators.

EDIT: Oh right, you just said that

The Grey Knights aren't the Emperor's secret last plan. They were made after his death.

Durza wrote:The Grey Knights aren't the Emperor's secret last plan. They were made after his death.

Their inception was during the Heresy after the events of Istvaan.

Malcador had to be alive to move Titan into the warp ( ) Malcador died before the Emperor was put into the Golden Throne

But they were made by Malcador, not the Emperor.

Durza wrote:But they were made by Malcador, not the Emperor.

At the request of the Emperor.

You must draw about you men of character, skill and determination. These men are to be rigorously tested and trained to ensure they are of the highest caliber and that their loyalty to me is unshakable. These men will be the cadre of an elite of investigators whose role is to root out heresy and treachery wherever it may hide

Initially looks like the Inquisition but once Malcador brings them to the Emperor, he presents them as

Sire, these others are known to you. Each of them is a space marine. They have cast aside their allegiance to primarch and legion who have sided with Horus and pledged themselves anew to you, Their emperor and father. I have chosen these eight since allied to their unflinching Loyalty they each are blessed with paranormal skills, Kept dormant in respect of your previous commands. However these skills are most apt in combating the horrors that have recently emerged from the warp and I know they will be needed in the coming years

I don't get why people just assume that the Chaos gods can kill Draigo at will. I mean this guy is so powerful he toys with (not only defeats, but actually makes them his play toys) daemon primarchs. And not only can he can survive in the warp without a Gellar Field, he goes around killing every daemon he can find and burns the Chaos gods' houses down. If I was a Chaos god I'd stay the hell away from this badass. Afterall, Khorne might be able to resurrect all the dead Bloodthirsters Draigo leaves in his wake, but who's gonna bring Khorne back to life after Draigo gets done with him?

The Chaos Gods are entities fuelled by the emotions of trillions. Draigo is just one dude with some geneseed... in THEIR ballpark...

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Afterall, Khorne might be able to resurrect all the dead Bloodthirsters Draigo leaves in his wake, but who's gonna bring Khorne back to life after Draigo gets done with him?

When Draigo's done with Khorne, he [Draigo] will have learned not to go after stuff that's too high above his level.

You know politicians right? You know how they have this little tiny voice inside their head that screams about what all the little kiddies who put them in power want? You know that minuscule amount of effort those politicians use to squash that little voice?

Something like that.

I dunno. I think the reason why the Chaos gods haven't just squished him is because they can't. He's just too powerful. Afterall Draigo isn't just a dude with some geneseed. He's the greatest Grey Knight Grandmaster ever. He's the best of the best from a chapter that's specifically designed to destroy Chaos. If anyone can beat a Chaos god it's Draigo. Most likely the only reason why he hasn't already done it already is because he hasn't been able to find the Chaos gods. They're probably hiding from him because they're scared - and for good reason!

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I dunno. I think the reason why the Chaos gods haven't just squished him is because they can't. He's just too powerful. Afterall Draigo isn't just a dude with some geneseed. He's the greatest Grey Knight Grandmaster ever. He's the best of the best from a chapter that's specifically designed to destroy Chaos. If anyone can beat a Chaos god it's Draigo. Most likely the only reason why he hasn't already done it already is because he hasn't been able to find the Chaos gods. They're probably hiding from him because they're scared - and for good reason!

And there in lies the problem.

The Emperor himself cannot destroy a Chaos God. The Chaos Gods really have no physical manifestation, and while humanity has greed, poverty, avarice, and lust, they will continue to thrive and only get stronger. If he were to actually face Khorne he wouldn't have a chance in hell. If the Emperor had a chance to kill the Chaos Gods he probably would have; but instead he learned about them, hid them from his children, and decided to try and find a way to defeat chaos... which ultimately lead to the corruption of half his children and the destruction of everything he strived for. The Chaos Gods don't NEED to be there to destroy you; they just need to set their minds to a common goal.

The issue with Draigo is, while he is a mighty warrior specifically built for a purpose, so too could chaos engineer something similar. The Chaos Gods CONTROL the warp... Draigo doesn't. The issue isn't that Draigo can single handedly kill a Greater Daemon or slaughter hordes of lesser Daemons; many charecters in the 40k universe can do the same. The issue is that Draigo's fluff makes him out to be a completely unstoppable killing machine that will single handedly destroy chaos and somehow, through magic or what have you, pops up from time to time to destroy chaos where ever it sprouts up in the material realm.

Draigos rules are OK. Borderline OP, but still good. But his fluff is completely ludacrious in so far as what the Dex makes him out to be.

I understand GK are engineered to fight Daemonic foes. But having ONE GUY destroying what is probably the most powerful force in the galaxy (they do have pretty much unlimited numbers, just need a way to get onto a planet) is just insane.

Zid wrote:
I understand GK are engineered to fight Daemonic foes. But having ONE GUY destroying what is probably the most powerful force in the galaxy (they do have pretty much unlimited numbers, just need a way to get onto a planet) is just insane.

And when did he ever do that? Because the codex I'm reading says he's, at best, slowing down a few daemons.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Zid wrote:
I understand GK are engineered to fight Daemonic foes. But having ONE GUY destroying what is probably the most powerful force in the galaxy (they do have pretty much unlimited numbers, just need a way to get onto a planet) is just insane.

And when did he ever do that? Because the codex I'm reading says he's, at best, slowing down a few daemons.

Well thats the impression I get when reading it Of course it could be my unending hate for Wards fluff....

Sorry but I do not accept that a TAU says something about RUINING THE BACKGROUND... Matt ward will never ruin the 40k fluff like the mere existence of Tau do.

Zid wrote:And there in lies the problem.

The Emperor himself cannot destroy a Chaos God.

The Emperor is not a Grey Knight. The Emperor is a very strong psyker, but Grey Knights are badasses whose sole purpose is to fight Chaos. They were created for this and this alone. And Draigo is the most badassed out of all of them. When it comes to fighting Chaos I could totally imagine Draigo being better at it than the Emperor.

wait did draigo beat mortarion and whatever other deathguard was with him at the time in mortarions home turf?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Zid wrote:And there in lies the problem.

The Emperor himself cannot destroy a Chaos God.

The Emperor is not a Grey Knight. The Emperor is a very strong psyker, but Grey Knights are badasses whose sole purpose is to fight Chaos. They were created for this and this alone. And Draigo is the most badassed out of all of them. When it comes to fighting Chaos I could totally imagine Draigo being better at it than the Emperor.

Hmm. Are you trolling? Psychic powers are the best thing to fight Daemons. The Emperor is the greatest psyker we know of in 40k. Ergo, the Emperor is better.

iproxtaco wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Zid wrote:And there in lies the problem.

The Emperor himself cannot destroy a Chaos God.

The Emperor is not a Grey Knight. The Emperor is a very strong psyker, but Grey Knights are badasses whose sole purpose is to fight Chaos. They were created for this and this alone. And Draigo is the most badassed out of all of them. When it comes to fighting Chaos I could totally imagine Draigo being better at it than the Emperor.

Hmm. Are you trolling? Psychic powers are the best thing to fight Daemons. The Emperor is the greatest psyker we know of in 40k. Ergo, the Emperor is better.

Basically hes saying Draigo > the Emperor... Which, if by that reasoning is true, then lolz.

Zid wrote:
Basically hes saying Draigo > the Emperor... Which, if by that reasoning is true, then lolz.

No......just no.....
Emperor psychic power is Draigo x 1.000.000%

Draigo isn't more powerful than the Emperor. He's just more powerful than the Emperor when it comes to fighting Chaos. Afterall, the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor. Can the Emperor waltz around the Realm of Chaos without a Gellar Field? I don't think so.

When it comes to fighting Chaos Draigo is pretty much described as being invincible. If only he had been around during the Heresy! He would have undoubtedly kicked Horus' ass. Alone and unaided.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.

The emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the emperor which is....basically himself?

Viersche wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.

The emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the emperor which is....basically himself?

Yup , that is the logic...