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Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:[
No, they aren't. The Avatar is proof of this, and the fact that the bare information is there. There's propaganda through it, but the basic facts are right.

Avatar of Khaine is a Daemon ( it's in the stats ). And he was beaten alive by Calgar - some powerful reincarnation of God he is.

Yeah, that's right, he's an AVATAR of Khaine. There's your proof.

Should I post the link on the psychological property again? Everyone does it. Everyone. People think they look better, are more athletic, are better painters, are more charming, all because they ignore the evidence to the contrary. Haha.

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:[
No, they aren't. The Avatar is proof of this, and the fact that the bare information is there. There's propaganda through it, but the basic facts are right.

Avatar of Khaine is a Daemon ( it's in the stats ). And he was beaten alive by Calgar - some powerful reincarnation of God he is.

Yeah, that's right, he's an AVATAR of Khaine. There's your proof.

Yeas, and AVATAR is a REINCARNATION of a GOD, and he was beaten in battle by mear mortal, how godly it is...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CpatTom wrote:Should I post the link on the psychological property again? Everyone does it. Everyone. People think they look better, are more athletic, are better painters, are more charming, all because they ignore the evidence to the contrary. Haha.

WHy are you trying to run the fun?
If you have a problem with this don't read or report to mods.

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
You don't have proof. You have a single line that's there as character fluff, and not fact. Confirmation bias, again.

"One day, he will return."
There is your prof.

Character fluff. It's not fact.

That's the bare-bones facts of a particular incident. A lot of the other stuff is filler and meant to make the army look good, propaganda.

Particular incident? All Grey Knight battles are that, in fact - they don't have even 1 loss right?

Mordrak's fluff needs some reading I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:[
No, they aren't. The Avatar is proof of this, and the fact that the bare information is there. There's propaganda through it, but the basic facts are right.

Avatar of Khaine is a Daemon ( it's in the stats ). And he was beaten alive by Calgar - some powerful reincarnation of God he is.

Yeah, that's right, he's an AVATAR of Khaine. There's your proof.

Yeas, and AVATAR is a REINCARNATION of a GOD, and he was beaten in battle by mear mortal, how godly it is...

So you admit Khaine existed? He had to have had, if there's a reincarnation of him. Calgar is far from a "mere mortal".

Technically, an avatar is a being designed to host a fragment of a god's power so they can walk among mortals. And at least the Avatar's fluff gives an accurate description of it, rather than saying 'Oh, every Avatar can tear Terra in half, they just don't feel like it'. Whereas you seem to read Draigo as being able to defeat all of the Chaos Gods somehow.

iproxtaco wrote:
Character fluff. It's not fact.

Just like his torture is not fact either. I didn't see any indication of this.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:Technically, an avatar is a being designed to host a fragment of a god's power so they can walk among mortals. And at least the Avatar's fluff gives an accurate description of it, rather than saying 'Oh, every Avatar can tear Terra in half, they just don't feel like it'. Whereas you seem to read Draigo as being able to defeat all of the Chaos Gods somehow.

Two words - M.W.

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Character fluff. It's not fact.

Just like his torture is not fact either. I didn't see any indication of this.

Wait a minute?! Neither do I. That's because it doesn't exist, and you're making it up that someone said he was being tortured.

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Character fluff. It's not fact.

Just like his torture is not fact either. I didn't see any indication of this.

What torture?

Durza wrote:Technically, an avatar is a being designed to host a fragment of a god's power so they can walk among mortals. And at least the Avatar's fluff gives an accurate description of it, rather than saying 'Oh, every Avatar can tear Terra in half, they just don't feel like it'. Whereas you seem to read Draigo as being able to defeat all of the Chaos Gods somehow.

Two words - M.W.

That's two letters

iproxtaco wrote:
Wait a minute?! Neither do I. That's because it doesn't exist, and you're making it up that someone said he was being tortured.

It was not you who indicated that he is not super bad ass at all but mere prisoner and that he is suffering every day by the hand of Chaos Gods? ( something with his all deeds are useless because in Warp everything is rebuild again so his entire effort is for nothing and that means that Chaos Gods are torturing him and enjoy? I learned that from you ).

I got 76 for the Mary-sue detector for Draigo. On the other hand most special characters would get a high score. They are all super-human.

Dont get all offensive when I present evidence as to why your arguments are the way they are Coa, I actually very much enjoy everyone trying to change each others mind.

CpatTom wrote:Dont get all offensive when I present evidence as to why your arguments are the way they are Coa, I actually very much enjoy everyone trying to change each others mind.

I am an Imperial fan, i don't discount this. I will always try to defend the Imeprium in every story, every legend, every myth. Except in that text witch say that Imperium is doomed.
But I can be very neutral from time to time to.

And being an Imperial fan is not a bad thing. And your opinions are yours and yours alone, and I wouldnt have it any other way. I like having my own opinions, that I dont have to share, and I dont want to share all the opinions of others. I am a Tau fan, and if the Tau had extravagant legends, I would seek to defend those as well. The Tau don't, but I would.

That being said: Draigo is a Mary Sue.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:"Generally, the Custodes are larger and more powerful than Space Marines..."

"Originally, they were equipped with the best power armour of the age, and had access to the same type of equipment and weapons as had the Space Marine Legions. Equipment which was characteristic of the Custodes would influence the equipment of the later Grey Knights. After the confinement of the Emperor within the Golden Throne, the Custodes abandoned, among other things, the use of their armour, and their traditional colour of red was changed to black."

/Custodian discussion

They're larger and individually more powerful than the Astartes, but they don't have the teamwork that the Astartes have. Seriously, this has been said how many times now?

Being individually powerful is much more useful than teamwork.

Would marbo destroy armies if he attacked in formation? no.

Either way comparison is flawed. GK are meant to teleport onto a field, kill a leader, and let allies mop up the mess.

Custodes are meant to protect the Emperor, the Imperial Palace, and Terra. They are also trained in assassination, and (presumably, based on their jetbikes, fling rhinos, and leaner, more form fitting armour) prefer speed.

And the reason AC armour is better than GK armour is that it offers atleast as much protection with greatly enhanced mobility, due to not having as much bulk.

Brother Coa wrote:"One day, he will return."
There is your prof.

Yeah, just like every primarch and the emperor and cypher and .....

ph34r wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:"One day, he will return."
There is your prof.

Yeah, just like every primarch and the emperor and cypher and .....

They to will return, Leman Russ said that himself. Guiliman is in process of healing. Emperor will ressurect ( Star Child ).

Brother Coa wrote:They to will return, Leman Russ said that himself. Guiliman is in process of healing. Emperor will ressurect ( Star Child ).

The Ultramarines think Guilliman's recovery is just wishful thinking and legend. I doubt they'd miss something as important as their Primarch healing. The Star Child is very much a contested idea that the Inquisition doesn't take seriously.

Molten Butter wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:They to will return, Leman Russ said that himself. Guiliman is in process of healing. Emperor will ressurect ( Star Child ).

The Ultramarines think Guilliman's recovery is just wishful thinking and legend. I doubt they'd miss something as important as their Primarch healing. The Star Child is very much a contested idea that the Inquisition doesn't take seriously.

There is also the theory that the Emperor in fact is using his mental power to heal Guiliman in stasis.
But again - this is just theory so I will not make claims but say that anything will happened when the end times start.

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Wait a minute?! Neither do I. That's because it doesn't exist, and you're making it up that someone said he was being tortured.

It was not you who indicated that he is not super bad ass at all but mere prisoner and that he is suffering every day by the hand of Chaos Gods? ( something with his all deeds are useless because in Warp everything is rebuild again so his entire effort is for nothing and that means that Chaos Gods are torturing him and enjoy? I learned that from you ).

Nope. I indicated that he was powerful, super bad ass if you will, and that the Chaos Gods enjoy watching his escapades as they are insignificant. I NEVER SAID HE WAS BEING TORTURED, THAT'S YOUR OWN FABRICATION.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:"Generally, the Custodes are larger and more powerful than Space Marines..."

"Originally, they were equipped with the best power armour of the age, and had access to the same type of equipment and weapons as had the Space Marine Legions. Equipment which was characteristic of the Custodes would influence the equipment of the later Grey Knights. After the confinement of the Emperor within the Golden Throne, the Custodes abandoned, among other things, the use of their armour, and their traditional colour of red was changed to black."

/Custodian discussion

They're larger and individually more powerful than the Astartes, but they don't have the teamwork that the Astartes have. Seriously, this has been said how many times now?

Being individually powerful is much more useful than teamwork.

Would marbo destroy armies if he attacked in formation? no.

The major flaw in that reasoning being that Grey Knights are individually better than a single Custode, two will be better than three, three will be better than five, and so on and so forth. Being individually powerful AND using teamwork is much superior than having just the former. Custodes are at a major disadvantage. Deal with it.

Either way comparison is flawed. GK are meant to teleport onto a field, kill a leader, and let allies mop up the mess.

Custodes are meant to protect the Emperor, the Imperial Palace, and Terra. They are also trained in assassination, and (presumably, based on their jetbikes, fling rhinos, and leaner, more form fitting armour) prefer speed.

It's a perfectly fine comparison. Saying it's flawed is a sign that you've finally run our out of bogus information to spew at us.

And the reason AC armour is better than GK armour is that it offers atleast as much protection with greatly enhanced mobility, due to not having as much bulk.

Evidence for offering at least as much protection. Grey Knight armour is the most up-to-date Power Armour available, crafted specifically for them. Custodes armour was good 10,000 years ago, now, not so much.

Brother Coa wrote:They to will return, Leman Russ said that himself. Guiliman is in process of healing. Emperor will ressurect ( Star Child ).

Leman Russ also said he would wield the Spear of Russ in the final battle. Then Ragnar threw it into the Warp.

Durza wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:They to will return, Leman Russ said that himself. Guiliman is in process of healing. Emperor will ressurect ( Star Child ).

Leman Russ also said he would wield the Spear of Russ in the final battle. Then Ragnar threw it into the Warp.

I didn't know that, but am for some reason overly amused by it.

Nobody likes characters that have no flaws. If they have no flaws they are not a character, but a robot. They have no personality or individual identity because they solely embody some gakky writer's like for badassery.

I think part of the hate also comes from his tabletop correlation. Along with other characters like Mephiston, and maybe Calgar and Ghazkgul as well, they represent a crutch that contradicts the playing of force vs force battles by turning it into herohammer with a great hero each and maybe some crap to go along with them, yet the hero usually does most of the work/killing. "Who's op badass supercharacter will win while the rest of the army shoots silly string at eachother? Find out next time."

Durza wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:They to will return, Leman Russ said that himself. Guiliman is in process of healing. Emperor will ressurect ( Star Child ).

Leman Russ also said he would wield the Spear of Russ in the final battle. Then Ragnar threw it into the Warp.

Which Leman Russ duly caught Lady in the Lake style

I actually think Magnus caught it. With his eye.

Durza wrote:I actually think Magnus caught it. With his eye.

Silly Magnus for getting in the way .. swords are sharp and pointy.

As are spears. If the primarchs came back, it would cause anarchy unless they submitted to the High Lords of Terra.

BronzeJon wrote:
Nobody likes characters that have no flaws. If they have no flaws they are not a character, but a robot. They have no personality or individual identity because they solely embody some gakky writer's like for badassery.

Maybe you missed the part of the codex where nothing Draigo does matters. Determination is his main characteristic, not victory and success.

DarknessEternal wrote:

BronzeJon wrote:
Nobody likes characters that have no flaws. If they have no flaws they are not a character, but a robot. They have no personality or individual identity because they solely embody some gakky writer's like for badassery.

Maybe you missed the part of the codex where nothing Draigo does matters. Determination is his main characteristic, not victory and success.

I'm not sure what that has to do with what you quoted.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:In a one-on-one fight, no one should. In a larger encounter, the fact that the Grey Knights support eachother would give them an edge.

As for the part I emphasized with italics, I've no problem to accept that. You seem to be thinking that I'm arguing in favour of the Custodes, when I'm in fact arguing for the Grey Knights.

Apologies, my words were more of a continuation of the overall argument rather than a direct counterpoint to your post. In hindsight, quoting the poster above you would probably have been more appropriate...

DarknessEternal wrote:

BronzeJon wrote:
Nobody likes characters that have no flaws. If they have no flaws they are not a character, but a robot. They have no personality or individual identity because they solely embody some gakky writer's like for badassery.

Maybe you missed the part of the codex where nothing Draigo does matters. Determination is his main characteristic, not victory and success.

No, wandering around kicking ass is his main characteristic. We don't know if he's depressed or having the time of his life.