Empire rumors (Fantasy) -- 3/30 official advance order pics are up!

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**Johnny-Crass**

Dysartes wrote:

Interesting definition of terrible, Johnny.

Ever seen this boy in person? One of AOW worse sculpts and compared the GW's warrior priest with gw it is terrible

**timetowaste85**

protomane0 wrote:According to white dwarf, marius leitdorf will be an actual special character, with his own rules.... and quoteth I from the veritable tome of knowledge *cough cough*

''Marius Leitdorf is the Elector count of Averland and a special character in warhammer: the empire. The resin model is blah blah blah failcost''

Well, I'm glad I kept my metal Marius when he was recently released a year and a half ago. Woohoo, my favorite EC is back in the book!!

**Ozymandias**

@Johnny: Well I own it so yeah, and it is the opposite of terrible. To each their own I guess ...

**Fenriswulf**

I hope they have done a re-vamp of the old Empire miniatures, because a lot of their rank and file are just atrocious.

If not, I'd rather buy Wargames Factory Samurais and Ashigaru miniatures and make a Nippon Empire army instead, with a liberal dash of Perry Miniatures and other manufacturers. New Demigryphs could easily be replaced by temple dogs or Oriental dragons.

**Kroothawk**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Void_walker wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:The Hot Pot Catapult in Finecast. Huh. I was not expecting this.

Really? So is that in the WD or the new book that you have read...or is that just a rumor??

Read it off Warseer, they seemed unusually sure of themselves.

Just look on the Advance Orders Website, no need to speculate or search Warseer:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod1530078a

unmercifulconker wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440090a&prodId=prod1530082a
Have these guys always been available? Cas I gotta say, £40 for 3 models is.......dayum
edit: nope new set

These characters were released in metal for the old Storm of Chaos campagne, now rereleased in Finecast and as a set.

**kenshin620**

Fenriswulf wrote:I hope they have done a re-vamp of the old Empire miniatures, because a lot of their rank and file are just atrocious.

Well if they are, they're going to be a later wave

Most likely though, no

Orcs and Goblins: No changes to existing units besides making plastics for metals
Tomb Kings: No changes to existing units besides Tomb Guard (metal to plastic once again) and Ushabiti (new variant)
Ogres: No changes to existing units
Vampire Counts: No changes to existing units besides making plastics for metals (again)

GW may dump a lot more money than most other companies on new plastic molds but so far they have been clinging onto old molds for a while now

**angelshade00**

Most of the models are quite good in my opinion. Except for the laser thingy. Looks more like something Necrons would field rather than a medieval contraption. Dakka Dakka!

I do agree however that some rank and file empire troops do need a re-vamp.

**Slinky**

The "laser thing" looks utterly different from different angles,it's just a series of lenses rather than a solid cannon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Greatsword models are great, but the State Troops are definitely pretty poor.

**angelshade00**

Slinky wrote:The "laser thing" looks utterly different from different angles,it's just a series of lenses rather than a solid cannon.

I know but still, a big laser cannon?

(because that's what it is)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Greatsword models are great, but the State Troops are definitely pretty poor.

Agreed on that.

**Johnny-Crass**

Flaggies are special choices now!

**scarletsquig**

Fenriswulf wrote:I hope they have done a re-vamp of the old Empire miniatures, because a lot of their rank and file are just atrocious.

If not, I'd rather buy Wargames Factory Samurais and Ashigaru miniatures and make a Nippon Empire army instead, with a liberal dash of Perry Miniatures and other manufacturers. New Demigryphs could easily be replaced by temple dogs or Oriental dragons.

Agreed, Perry's all the way for me, for all the infantry and cavalry.

GW lost a *lot* of money by pricing the greatswords at £25, if they were £15-£18, I'd have bought dozens of sets and used them to convert nicer-looking state troops.

But no, they had to throw an extra £10 on the price "just because it's a special choice", and also due to Tom Kirby's bonehead statement of "there is no reason that plastic should be cheaper than metal just because it's plastic" which was the idiotic top-level decision that drove me away in the first place.

This new release is a little more restrained as far as price rises go, but it still isn't enough to draw me back.

This is why people really need to start liking the fact that other companies like Perrys, WGF, Mantic etc. exist. Even if you hate everything about them to their core, at least realise that having competition in the wargames market might stop the prices on the GW products you do want to buy from rising to the moon.

For instance, 7th edition, steam tank released at £36/model... 8th edition - new wizardmobiles which are much bigger sculpts with more sprues and more options - £30.

Even the griffon isn't all that bad £33, I was expecting £41 for something that size.

New paint range *not* accompanied by a price rise for once.

I definitely think we're starting to see at least some sort of slowing down of the crazy GW price hikes compared to the last few years, and I have a hunch it is down to the competition constantly stepping up it's game. It'll be interesting to see if we get a price rise on Empire state troops or not. All other armies have had their 10-man boxes go up to £18.50.

Go back 5-6 years in time to when 7th edition was released.. what did we have that could actually match GW in terms of quality? Rackham, and... not a lot else as far as the wargames market goes. And as for matching them in price? Well, no-one was making plastics, so GW was still the cheapest unless you wanted some crap like 1:72 plastics, Zvezda, em4 or Warzone.

**plastictrees**

angelshade00 wrote:
I know but still, a big laser cannon? (because that's what it is)

Well, apart from not being a laser or looking like a cannon, yes, you're completely right.
I admit that modern science might make certain wizard related breakthroughs the likes of which we can't even begin to imagine, but as of right now I'd suggest that an old man channeling his mystical light power through some big pieces of glass fits pretty well in a fantasy "medieval" setting.

**CthuluIsSpy**

plastictrees wrote:
angelshade00 wrote:
I know but still, a big laser cannon? (because that's what it is)

Well, apart from not being a laser or looking like a cannon, yes, you're completely right.
I admit that modern science might make certain wizard related breakthroughs the likes of which we can't even begin to imagine, but as of right now I'd suggest that an old man channeling his mystical light power through some big pieces of glass fits pretty well in a fantasy "medieval" setting.

'
That, and the fact that it's been clearly inspired by Archimedes's "death ray"

**hotsauceman1**

Ok. On the gryphons. How the hell do you get into melee on that? its so big. Unless you jump off. If someone is meleeing with lets say skaven(im not a fantasy player but i love the models) the rider has to get off hit them then onto the gryphon again.

**Alpharius**

hotsauceman1 wrote:Ok. On the gryphons. How the hell do you get into melee on that? its so big. Unless you jump off. If someone is meleeing with lets say skaven(im not a fantasy player but i love the models) the rider has to get off hit them then onto the gryphon again.

Suspension of disbelief + Rule of Cool = Awesome New Model!

**Zweischneid**

hotsauceman1 wrote:Ok. On the gryphons. How the hell do you get into melee on that? its so big. Unless you jump off. If someone is meleeing with lets say skaven(im not a fantasy player but i love the models) the rider has to get off hit them then onto the gryphon again.

How do 10 Marines (possibly armed to the teeth with unsave weaponry of all kind and frothing with violent rage if you have Death Company or Berserkers or the like) fit into a Rhino?

How to Dreadnaughts lift a leg, much less walk or "run" or hit anything with their stubby short DDCW?

Etc....

This is GW. If you're looking for "realism", there's other companies out there that cater to it. GW sure as hell isnt.

**Kanluwen**

There's actually an explanation on how the riders on these big monsters get into combat which doesn't necessarily require suspension of disbelief(well...beyond what's to be expected for a gryphon riding swordsman, that is).

We don't expect that for things like Skaven Slaves fighting Empire Soldiers that they stand in those nice orderly rows the entire fight, do we? If they were "really fighting", it's likely there'd be all kinds of stuff going on. Those big gryphons would likely be a prime target for soldiers to clamber up onto and try to drag it down by weight of numbers alone. The rider's attacks are likely against those kinds of people.

But hey, it's always possible that I might just have been reading a few too many Dragonlance books lately...

**Thunderfrog**

The Griffon/Rider attack routine consists of: Claw Claw Bite Barrel Roll Swing Swing, then repeat.

**kenshin620**

Yea it is Rule of Cool on big monsters and their riders. Maybe you might be able to use a lance if you're lucky. Its suppose to be abstract an all anyways

scarletsquig wrote:

But no, they had to throw an extra £10 on the price "just because it's a special choice", and also due to Tom Kirby's bonehead statement of "there is no reason that plastic should be cheaper than metal just because it's plastic" which was the idiotic top-level decision that drove me away in the first place.

Heck metal itself doesnt have to be that expensive. Old Glory 28mm is relatively inexpensive (full price of $35 for 25 figures, hello Landsknechts!)

**JOHIRA**

I love the griffin. It looks to be an attempt at foreshortening in miniature form- i.e. the exaggeratedly large feet and exaggeratedly tiny head create an illusion that the head is further away, and thus that the beast is so big that there is a perspective change between bits in the foreground and bits in the background. Very clever, and I'm surprised GW took the risk on it when they could have just copy/pasted the High Elf griffin and tacked on a bunch of skulls and comets.

I do wonder though how it looks when you are looking at it from the gamer's-eye-view. From above it might just look especially pin-headed.

All the rest of the releases are a forgettable pile of blah. Typical of GW, they are over-decorated and under-conceptualized. They are festooned with so many details the eye doesn't know where to look, so in the end it doesn't really look at anything. The demigryphs are particularly poorly-concieved, with very little work put into distinguishing them from ordinary horses. Whereas the Forgeworld demigryff has an exaggerated beak and anatomically-appropriate pose to make it absolutely unquestionable what it is you're looking at, the GW demigryphs may as well just be horses with a quick hoof-and-head swap.

**CthuluIsSpy**

I wonder if we'll see an arcane war machine for the other 6 lores. That would be interesting.

**Kroothawk**

Frenka over at Warseer had a look at the army book:

frenka wrote:I have seen the armybook now and i can confirm afew things.
Runefang is still in the book at 85pts
Helm of the ratslayer. fear to evryone, terror to skaven but skavens hate the model wearing it. 15pts
AOMI 1+AS and 6++ for 50points
Griffonbanner same as usual for 60pts
steelstandard. ignore -movement from barding and reroll 1's on the charge, flee and pursue
Mace of helstrum (didnt read the rules for it) 50pts
Van horstmans speculum 40pts
Ring of volans (think it was 30 or 40)
and the white cloak abit redone at 50pts
(...)
Also all statetroops except spearmen have gone up 1 points (including crossbows, handgunners and greatswords)
Detachment rule: Detatchments now counts for the same pointscost as the parentunit (for example core, special etc.) They gain the same special rules as the parent unit (stubborn, stupidity etc) and also get the same prayer as the parent unit.

Mortars will be s2(6) big plate and get a 33% point increase aswell. Great cannon gets a 20% point increase. Steam tank now works differently with a steamengine missifirechart. It moves d6 random move per steampoint used up to 5 and causes d6+d3 per steampoint impacthits.

Please warrior priests still generate dispell dice same with arch lectors and the war altar boosts still has to be good

They dont generat dispeldice anymore, though they can channel both power and dispeldice

Their prayers are though much better: 1 that makes the whole unit reroll wounds. 1 that gives the unit 5++ in closecombat, and then we have old soulfire that now gives flaming attacks to the unit and damages models in basecontact with the priest
(...)
Witchhunters get some sort of "assassin typ role in the army i guess. After deployment you pick a model to "accuse of heresy!" and then the witchhunter will be extra strong against that model...
(...)
Regular knights have gotten a pointdrop by 2pts And there will be mounted reiksguardknights at 27pts. They are like normal inner circle knights but also stubborn
(...)
Engineers can now either pass their BS to 1 warengine per turn OR reroll a dice
Griffons are down to 170pts
The steam tank will have t6
well the steamtank has +1 AS instead. Seem logical to me?
+ the rules are different now
I can say that the info about the steam tank that i gave is from the book that i've read at my local gaming store. In the book it has t6
The effectivness of the main cannon and the steam gun is dependant on how many steampoints you spend on it that turn. the steamtank moves d6 random move per steam point (so it could in theory charge 30") and it does d6+d3 per steampoint impacthits
Yes it has a special blowing the boiler missfirechart now
And no, if you use 5steampoints you would get d6+ 5d3 impacthits

Someone on W-E.com just posted that flaggellants have gone up by 2, is this true?

They have. The rules for sacrificing flagellants have been remade so they can get +1t instead of that +1 combat res if i remember it right.
And if you use flagellants against the right unit they can wreak havoc...
Ah right forgot to mention that. There is no unitlimit anymore on them
(...)
As i mentioned before, the hellstorm rocketbattery will fire d3 s3 small templates and fire like a normal stonethrower except allways indirect fire so its not a huge nerf. Could potentialy hit 63 models in 1 shot

And what about the Helblaster - how many points, is it autohit again (as it was in 6th ed)?

It is still BS shooting style. though it can use the BS of an engineer.
when the helblaster missfires (if i read it right) will on the first missfire roll, shoot half the shots, on the second missfire roll that turn, roll on the blackpowder chart and third roll all barrels roll 10 and the cannon explodes

**Void_walker**

Wow, glad they are rumors....

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that Frenka says the points costs of magic items and inside information on how things works........YET only give a % to how much the mortar and cannon is. Guess the GW hounds at the warehouse got to him before he could take some more information

**Aerethan**

The nerf to mortars by both lowering S and raising cost is a bit harsh. Cannons needed to be nerfed against large monsters and a 20 point bump isn't that.

Glad that the speculum is there for just 5 more points. And the changes to detachments makes me see them as useful now, especially with a Greatswords parent and a warrior priest.

Never liked or took a Stank so don't care on those. Helblaster seems better.

If all of those last rumors are true then it's all fine by me. I'm excited to do a new Empire army as it was my first army way back when.

**kenshin620**

Yay time to drop all those mortars from the lists

**4oursword**

Anyone else noticed that if you cover the feline part of the Griffon, you get a hilariously fat baby eagle?

Also, how does that chest armour attach on? Looks like it's just suspended on the Griffon's chest without straps.

**GoDz KI11JOY x**

Any idea who is the author of this army book, I can't seem to find who it is?

**BorderCountess**

If the S2 mortars bit is true, my Chaos Warriors can stop worrying. But upping the price, too? Horrid.

That said, I'm overall excited for the new book. I may have to start fielding my Empire again - they haven't been my 'main' army since 6th Edition.

**timetowaste85**

GoDz KI11JOY x wrote:Any idea who is the author of this army book, I can't seem to find who it is?

Cruddace. It's in the first post, I believe.

Some of these leaks disappoint me-AoMI going up to 50pts by just adding a ward save to it? Feth it. State troops going up in cost? WTF? Witch hunters? Okay, now I'm happy. And 160pt griffons...I see a couple Griffon riders going to battle. Hehehehe.

**LazzurusMan**

Anyone see this on GW's site today and think it was another april fools joke???

I heard no rumors about this till today...