Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I want to do a competitive Dark Eldar army as my first competitive army and by competitive I mean wins through sheer list/playstyle rather than WAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!! ORKZ IZ BEST! and hoping for the best.
I have read both the Codex and the guide from Dashofpepper but want to know what is a good base to 'get the ropes' as it were. Also I would like to know what the feth this 'alpha strike' is that everyone is talking about, because I can't even guess what it is. I wish I could articulate my request a bit better but I'm not a writer kinda person.

You should check out Dashofpeppers tactica Just finished reading your post properly

Alpha strike is the name given to a tactic that basically boils down to "Kill all of your opponents army before it even has a chance to retaliate".

Krellnus wrote:I want to do a competitive Dark Eldar army as my first competitive army and by competitive I mean wins through sheer list/playstyle rather than WAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!! ORKZ IZ BEST! and hoping for the best.
I have read both the Codex and the guide from Dashofpepper but want to know what is a good base to 'get the ropes' as it were. Also I would like to know what the feth this 'alpha strike' is that everyone is talking about, because I can't even guess what it is. I wish I could articulate my request a bit better but I'm not a writer kinda person.

DE have a lot of firepower, but that firepower is fragile. DE MUST strike first. They must strike with overwhelming force. They must at least shake every enemy tank and vehicle to prevent it from shooting back next turn. They cannot move around aimlessly or try to focus on destroying an enemy threat while other things are still able to shoot next turn. The best way to accomplish this is to get the first turn or come in from reserve. That way you know your units will get at least one turn of shooting before they die in horrible plumes of fire.

So would you say something like don't buy a unit unless you have a specific purpose for that unit in mind?
Also thanks for they clarification Gorechild.

Obviously, everything in a Raider. Probably mostly Dark Lances from punching through armour, but unless the meta has changed heaps while I've been gone a decent amount of anti-infantry would help as well. You know, with the marines and all.

I'm thinking with the way it was you could get away with something like 1 anti tank for every two anti-infantry. Then I guess it would depend on how you want to deal with those death stars I saw a couple of times. Probably shooting though, it's also tempting to just throw a nice unit at them as well.

One big thing to remember about the DE is that you build your army around your HQs. So once you figureout your HQ's then you can build the rest of the army. Strike hard, strike fast. Another reason that the alpha strike is good is that you are essentially cutting out 1-2 turns of shooting. Dark eldar are not a war of attrition army, so the less damage they take the better.

Well based on what I have gathered thus far, Baron Sathonyx would seem to be a very good choice and I was thinking of maybe an Archon with huskblade and soul trap or something along those lines.

Krellnus wrote:Well based on what I have gathered thus far, Baron Sathonyx would seem to be a very good choice and I was thinking of maybe an Archon with huskblade and soul trap or something along those lines.

the baron is a great choice, as he helps you go first. other than that, he is meh but going first is here its at

archons are nice but if you take an archon and the baron you dont have any room for haemoculi. Haemis have the best wargear options, you can take 3 per HQ choice and they can give squads they are with FNP right off the bat and FC soon. I highly reccomend taking at least 3.

Just like every army, what units to take depends on your playstyle. Just about all the weapons on the board are going to eliminate your armor saves so you have to take into account that if a model is hit, it's dead. So, you have to compensate. Cover. Pain tokens. Being in vehicles. Get wyches in CC. To the left, DE have quite the arsenal available. Just about all their shooty weapons will wound on 4+ minimum, while the generic hth weapons are going to likely be wounding on 5+. You have lots of lance weapons available for decent cost and somewhat affordable vehicles. DE have speed, with vehicles being able to move at cruising speed and fire all weapons and a 5++ save for the paper thin armor 10.

This is where the mentality part comes in.. what works best to compensate for the above? For me, I am a believer in the "put as many dice on the table and I bet the enemy is going to roll some 1's" mentality. I use the alpha-strike army and fully deploy on the board every game; as I loathe the concept of deepstrike. I try to isolate half my opponent's army and concentrate fire there, minimizing the available targets he has while focusing everything on the ones that do have the chance to return fire. I prefer venoms to raiders, and have a mix of wyches and warriors for troops. I have the Baron in my army for that +1 on the roll to go first. It's worth his points just for that. Beyond that, he's bait. (and people DO take it) My other HQ are haemonculai. That's 3 free pain tokens to spread around your army and that is nothing to sneeze at and their kit is useful. Agonizers (4+ power weapon) and liquifier guns (ap of D6, template) Three of my units are starting out with FNP to compensate for the non-existent armor. I'll also use target saturation, putting as many different units on the board as I can, making my opponent spread out his fire. If he can only field 10 distinct units, and I can isolate half of them, there are a lot of my units that will be safe simply because he doesn't have enough guns to shoot at them all.

So, really, the question you ask is difficult to answer. What works for me, may not work for DashofPepper.. because our tactics are different. The think I *like* about Dark Eldar (aside from the fun models, which is the real draw) is the flexibility. If you want a gunline, you can. Kinda. If you want a mech army, you can. Sorta. If you want a Mob cc army, it's there too. In a way. Look at how folks play and deploy, be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the available units, and fill the army based on the tactics you are comfortable with.

I will also recommend picture taking each turn. Later.. go back over the battle and look at what happened. Really look and analyze as objectively as possible what went right, what went wrong, and what you can do about it. On the day the dice abandon you.. there's just nothing you can do. If you won because the dice can't roll less than 5.. again.. could the tactics be better? In my opinion, DE is an army that requires thought.

YMMV. Good luck.

You said that you read my article.....but don't understand the basics.

The basics are in the three links at the VERY TOP of the article that says, "These links are the foundation of playing Dark Eldar" and this whole article presumes you already know those basics and how to construct a list.

No sense picking up Calculus if you haven't learned algebra yet. Give it another read and start at the top.

I will admit, that I did have trouble understanding the basics of your article Dash, but an article as in-depth as yours... can it ever really be understood with just one read through, alas I will go back and read it and the three articles at the top and have another go at it (and tbh no amount of good formatting can help with the fact its on a computer computer screen and your gonna strain your eyes and not pay attention to what your reading).
I do have a question about sharing the pain, mainly in close combat.
Say we have the Baron is part of a Hellion unit and combined they have 2 pain tokens and they charge into a unit of 5 Devastators now because the Baron becomes a separate unit in close combat because he is an independent character would that mean he has to share the pain because he is 'leaving' the unit would that mean that neither the baron or the hellions would benefit from FC but both would benefit from FNP?

Leth wrote:One big thing to remember about the DE is that you build your army around your HQs. So once you figureout your HQ's then you can build the rest of the army. Strike hard, strike fast. Another reason that the alpha strike is good is that you are essentially cutting out 1-2 turns of shooting. Dark eldar are not a war of attrition army, so the less damage they take the better.

No offense Leth, but this is about as backwards as you can be.

Dark Eldar build their HQs around their armies, not the other way around. Now granted, we have some HQs that can change the makeup of an army, i.e. making certain things troops, letting all vehicles deepstrike, etc., but they are also all the special characters and not necessarily the best choices alot of the time.

In all honestly, if you want to be competitive, Krellnus, look at alot of the army lists here on Dakka, and notice what the similarities are. We have alot of fun units, and alot of units that can be very functional, and then we also have units that serve almost no purpose (yeah, I'm lookin at you DeCrapitator! ).

However, for every competitive list you will see one or two things that they have in common, so use those things and then experiment a bit from there to find what works best for you.

The number one thing that they all have in common, of course, is SPEED! We are the fastest army in the game, and you must use that speed to protect yourself, to strike where you want, and to deny the enemy everything that you can, and you will be well on your way to becoming a competitive Dark Eldar General!


P.S. They also all use three Ravagers with 3 Dark Lances!

Krellnus wrote:I will admit, that I did have trouble understanding the basics of your article Dash, but an article as in-depth as yours... can it ever really be understood with just one read through, alas I will go back and read it and the three articles at the top and have another go at it (and tbh no amount of good formatting can help with the fact its on a computer computer screen and your gonna strain your eyes and not pay attention to what your reading).
I do have a question about sharing the pain, mainly in close combat.
Say we have the Baron is part of a Hellion unit and combined they have 2 pain tokens and they charge into a unit of 5 Devastators now because the Baron becomes a separate unit in close combat because he is an independent character would that mean he has to share the pain because he is 'leaving' the unit would that mean that neither the baron or the hellions would benefit from FC but both would benefit from FNP?

If they were in a unit when movement ended, ICs stay a part of the unit in close combat. You may *treat* him as a separate unit, but they're still together and still share tokens.

Really, the only time you can split an IC from a unit is during the movement phase.

krellnus wrote:Also I would like to know what the feth this 'alpha strike' is that everyone is talking about, because I can't even guess what it is. I wish I could articulate my request a bit better but I'm not a writer kinda person.

Gorechild wrote:Alpha strike is the name given to a tactic that basically boils down to "Kill all of your opponents army before it even has a chance to retaliate".

Err, Gorechild, I believe "Alpha Strike", in 40k, more accurately means, "Assault on Turn 1". Ya know, the 'alpha' being the first letter of the alphabet? From units like Ork Deffkoptas, Wyches from Raiders, Scout-bikes, StormRaven delivered Dreads, etc.

Alpha strike is the first strike, whether that is by shooting or melee combat. The person with the first turn generally gets the alpha strike, or the first round of shooting/ attempt at assaults, but an opponent who reserves their entire army and shoots as they come on would get the alpha strike then.

Good ol' wikipedia:

An alpha strike is a massive all-out attack launched near the beginning of a tabletop war game, in hopes of achieving a decisive advantage. This is usually considered a risky tactic, as if the attacker fails to gain a decisive advantage, it can leave the attacker's units overextended and vulnerable to counter-attack.

H3ct0r wrote:Alpha strike is the first strike, whether that is by shooting or melee combat. The person with the first turn generally gets the alpha strike, or the first round of shooting/ attempt at assaults, but an opponent who reserves their entire army and shoots as they come on would get the alpha strike then.

Let's put it this way; I didn't hear the term 'alpha strike' until 5e, with far more units being able to get a Turn1 Assault, like the ones I cited.

And I played 40k from 4e's beginning, and not in some backwoods basement with just my cousin/brother, Maynard. But at Los Angeles's Battle Bunker, the GW in Glendale, Game Empire, and a few other busy game stores. So, Shooting First is, IMHO, not an "Alpha Strike".

Eh. Maybe it's a regional thing.

Brothererekose wrote:

H3ct0r wrote:Alpha strike is the first strike, whether that is by shooting or melee combat. The person with the first turn generally gets the alpha strike, or the first round of shooting/ attempt at assaults, but an opponent who reserves their entire army and shoots as they come on would get the alpha strike then.

Let's put it this way; I didn't hear the term 'alpha strike' until 5e, with far more units being able to get a Turn1 Assault, like the ones I cited.

And I played 40k from 4e's beginning, and not in some backwoods basement with just my cousin/brother, Maynard. But at Los Angeles's Battle Bunker, the GW in Glendale, Game Empire, and a few other busy game stores. So, Shooting First is, IMHO, not an "Alpha Strike".

Eh. Maybe it's a regional thing.

Shooting first is not an alpha strike. Loading up on as many hard hitting ranged weapons as you can possibly put in your list and getting the first shooting phase is an alpha strike. Not all armies can deal an alpha strike, because it requires particular styles of armies that are highly offensive. Basically in order to do an alpha strike you list has to be built for killing power at the expense of all else, and you need to go first.

Often times an alpha strike list can win (or lose) the game in the first roll of the game, the roll to decide who goes first.