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But Chaos gained Vindicators for everyone, so your 'logic' doesn't work. What a frickin' surprise...

Besides, trying to look at precedent when it comes to predicting how GW will act is pointless. They change horses so often mid-race that for all we know the new Space Wolf Codex could see a return to special upgrades for characters ala Daemonic Gifts... wait... *checks rumours*... Oh! "Sagas". I guess they already have.

It was mentioned by one of the guys on the `in' that the Russ is gone. There was a big out-cry about it a few months back. Search Warseer or Bolter and Chainsword and you should find the details on this.

It was mentioned by one of the guys on the `in' that the Russ is gone. There was a big out-cry about it a few months back. Search Warseer or Bolter and Chainsword and you should find the details on this.

Which is stupid if you really think about it. The tank is named after the friggin' wolf primarch for god's sake... it made sense in that army. It was one of the few dependable medium tank busters in it. Not to mention it gave some not-ultrasmurf character to the army.

*golfclap* nice going GW

Yeah god forbid they standardize the army somewhat to the model range. Must have every little bit of fluff on table! And since the UMs maintain huge guard reserves (the UM chapter master is lord Macragge) they shouldbe able to take allied Valks, right?

Plus a russ can easily counts as a pred....

More space Viking > more IG stuff.

jmurph wrote:the UMs maintain huge guard reserves (the UM chapter master is lord Macragge) they shouldbe able to take allied Valks, right?

Actually, by the same logic, they should be treat the entire IG Codex as Allied, save for the abhumans that nobody would ever take anyways...

It's funny how SM players can get outraged over losing a single unit, but are often the least sympathetic people when others' entire armies get Squatted.

gorgon wrote:It's funny how SM players can get outraged over losing a single unit, but are often the least sympathetic people when others' entire armies get Squatted.

Er, what?

I haven't seen that sentiment expressed here...

Are you sure you're not... exaggerating?

I saw the opposite sentiment, frankly, in earlier SW threads.

Alpharius wrote:

gorgon wrote:It's funny how SM players can get outraged over losing a single unit, but are often the least sympathetic people when others' entire armies get Squatted.

Er, what?

I haven't seen that sentiment expressed here...

Are you sure you're not... exaggerating?

lol, other than people who are just starting to collect/play 40k, i don't know of anyone who is ONLY a SM player... *looking at my sig* you'll find most people are sympathetic (if only to get in a few extra jibes on GW corporate) when anything previously available is squatted.

For all the outcries about the leman russ tank.. Ive never seen a SW army field one

Sure people do.. but its nothing special..

A name is merely a collection of characters strung together.. Just because its named after the primarch means nothing.. Name it "Tank_01" and then give it a critical look

Its out of place in the book and needs to go

Don't feed the trolls!

Kirasu- I agree. I would rather have wulfen in the main list! A note about how the SW's primarch is so honored that the IG named their MBT after him is sufficient.

I can say that I am an "only" Space Marine player. Give me a break, they are still my favorite race.

I recently got an old Space Wolf army I loaned to a friend for 5 years. One of the primary reasons I got into the Wolves back in the day was because I could field a Leman Russ in a Space Marine army.

I am already trading my old Russ in anticipation that I won't be able to field it, but ultimately I don't care. I don't think it added anything to the army that a Dakka Predator didn't.

I may purchase a Demolisher and field the Plasma Options in APOC games, but that is the extent of my care over loosing this tank.

I would much rather talk about Sagas, which looks to be the Space Wolves version of Orders/Faith Points/Combat Tactics. I like the the flavor of the army is in the list itself and not in a bunch of random upgrades that only exist to provide you with the allusion of options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jmurph wrote:Don't feed the trolls!

Kirasu- I agree. I would rather have wulfen in the main list! A note about how the SW's primarch is so honored that the IG named their MBT after him is sufficient.

Wolfen as a "Lost and the Damned" option, would be sweet, I would love to see them as a Rending unit that can put a lot of attacks out. Running them with a Wolf Priest in a Land Raider will be fun. I don't even care if they become a random upgrade choice like possessed, I would still find a use for them.

I believe Wulfen are a given at this point. Any words to the contrary?

I take it that WD cover pic is supposedly from the October Issue? GW has this and next months issues on their site so unless the art changes it is not the same and we get to see pics only like 2-3 weeks early? Seems about the same as it was with WOC when their book was redone last year I guess.

WD 355 (August) just came out, and that is listed as WD 357 so you would be correct, October it is, only two months away!

Side note: WD 355 might be the all time low in terms of value in WD's history.

I know a while back there was an article by Rick Priestly saying that this was going to change, that WD would be, well, WD again, with actual content worth paying for and reading...

Clearly this is not the case.

When does the data sheet normally get leaked? Can someone go up to GW HQ and just ask "Hey can you guys leak the datasheet for SWs already? We need something to get excited over"?

Well I would guess it will get leaked next month (start of) . . . as that is when the Black Box is sent out to stores . . . not long to wait =]

Gentlemen, I found a leaked video of what's inside the box.


On a serious note, the rumor that whatever is in the box will be a one run only seems like a short sighted business decision. I mean, if it sells out why not make more, profit, and keep your customers happy?

I mean, if it sells out why not make more, profit, and keep your customers happy?

Because then you'd have to be an idiot to buy it?

If the object in the box continues to be sold after the unveiling, then basically you're just pre-ordering their upcoming release without knowing what it is. That's dumb.

If the object in the box is a limited prodution item, then there's a certain level of hope that it will become valuable for its rarity, and you will win... Either because it's sweet and you got one, or because otherpeople think it's sweet, and you can sell it for more than what you paid.

It's simple. Nobody smart is going to buy something without knowing what it is. People MAY buy something if all they know is that it's going to be rare and cool.

There's a theme in these forums of general naivete around marketing and pricing. The idea seems to be that GW should just be really, really cool to us, and then they'll do well in business.

This is ridiculous.

Here's the reality:

Marketing gimmicks often work. And in the process of working, they often take advantage of the consumer, and leave him feeling a bit misused.

GW isn't here to sell you products at the price you feel like paying. They're here to figure out how much you think you can pay, and then get a little more out of you. Sorta like your high school coach. Or a drill sergeant trying to help you "pay all that you can pay."

Businesses don't succeed by being your pal, and running their operations as a favor to you. They succeed by getting as much money as possible for as little goods/services possible.

That may sound cynical, but don't misunderstand me... I'm not saying you should take it personally. That's life. Walk the middle path. Know that GW is trying to get your money. You should neither resent them for that, nor expect them to do otherwise.

Phryxis wrote: "pay all that you can pay."

Holy gak! GW's new slogan.

From what i have heard from some people in the know, there will only be a few boxes coming out with the wolves.

One being a wolf pack, which contains the standard 10 models with weapons to make either Hunters or Bloodclaws, along with bits that allow you to purchase a scout squad or a dev squad and "wolf" them up, which really is both a useful way for players and GW.

And the other being the plastic wolf guard squad, but haven't heard anything as to whether or not they will be power armoured and with termie bits in the same way as the other kit, or just termie troopers.

Have also pretty much heard a confirmation of the Thunderwolf squad (wolf riders) and their special character.

Unfortunately haven't heard anything other then the sculpts are very nice looking, and there is lots of bitz.

Unfortunately haven't heard anything other then the sculpts are very nice looking, and there is lots of bitz.

God, every time I hear this it pisses me right the feth off.

"Oh, they're really nice looking, they're very nice!" fething SHOW US THEN GOD DAMN IT. Stop telling me it's nice, prove it.

The moronic way GW is approaching this whole release (and unfortunately every new release until they get a clue) is just making me not care. I don't want to buy from them if they're going to do that.

Oh I'm sure they are very nice. Too bad all your dicking around and acting like a tool with the news killed my enthusiasm.

Sidstyler wrote:

Unfortunately haven't heard anything other then the sculpts are very nice looking, and there is lots of bitz.

God, every time I hear this it pisses me right the feth off.

"Oh, they're really nice looking, they're very nice!" fething SHOW US THEN GOD DAMN IT. Stop telling me it's nice, prove it.

The moronic way GW is approaching this whole release (and unfortunately every new release until they get a clue) is just making me not care. I don't want to buy from them if they're going to do that.

Oh I'm sure they are very nice. Too bad all your dicking around and acting like a tool with the news killed my enthusiasm.

Someone's a littler overly excited. Time for nap until you calm down young man.

Sidstyler wrote:

Unfortunately haven't heard anything other then the sculpts are very nice looking, and there is lots of bitz.

God, every time I hear this it pisses me right the feth off.

"Oh, they're really nice looking, they're very nice!" fething SHOW US THEN GOD DAMN IT. Stop telling me it's nice, prove it.

The moronic way GW is approaching this whole release (and unfortunately every new release until they get a clue) is just making me not care. I don't want to buy from them if they're going to do that.

Oh I'm sure they are very nice. Too bad all your dicking around and acting like a tool with the news killed my enthusiasm.

I wish i could prove it, means i would have seen the sculpts myself, but unfortunately i haven't all i posted is what i have been told by people who have seen the sculpts, I'm sorry if that's not enough for you to be happy with, but we can't all get looks at things early and we have to really go by ear alot of the time, and after being told some cool stuff i thought'd i pass it for the community.

I'm going to have to agree with Sidstyler here. As Malfred said some may years ago, his quote in my sig still holds true.

gorgon wrote:It's funny how SM players can get outraged over losing a single unit, but are often the least sympathetic people when others' entire armies get Squatted.

First they came for the Dark Angels, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Dark Angel. Then they came for the Chaos Space Marines, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Chaos Space Marine. Then they came for the Imperial Guard, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Space Wolf. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.

I have to say, you put that perfectly. I hate to admit it, but I had not thought of it that way.

Phryxis wrote:

I mean, if it sells out why not make more, profit, and keep your customers happy?

Because then you'd have to be an idiot to buy it?

If the object in the box continues to be sold after the unveiling, then basically you're just pre-ordering their upcoming release without knowing what it is. That's dumb.

If the object in the box is a limited prodution item, then there's a certain level of hope that it will become valuable for its rarity, and you will win... Either because it's sweet and you got one, or because otherpeople think it's sweet, and you can sell it for more than what you paid.

It's simple. Nobody smart is going to buy something without knowing what it is. People MAY buy something if all they know is that it's going to be rare and cool.

There's a theme in these forums of general naivete around marketing and pricing. The idea seems to be that GW should just be really, really cool to us, and then they'll do well in business.

This is ridiculous.

Here's the reality:

Marketing gimmicks often work. And in the process of working, they often take advantage of the consumer, and leave him feeling a bit misused.

GW isn't here to sell you products at the price you feel like paying. They're here to figure out how much you think you can pay, and then get a little more out of you. Sorta like your high school coach. Or a drill sergeant trying to help you "pay all that you can pay."

Businesses don't succeed by being your pal, and running their operations as a favor to you. They succeed by getting as much money as possible for as little goods/services possible.

That may sound cynical, but don't misunderstand me... I'm not saying you should take it personally. That's life. Walk the middle path. Know that GW is trying to get your money. You should neither resent them for that, nor expect them to do otherwise.

But.. you can't pre-order it before they have shown us what it is, thus you won't be buying something you don't know what it is

I don't see a big nerf bat coming down. Rumors indicate that the SWs will probably be pretty good.

I suspect SW will be more fighty than codex marines, hopefully packing BP/CCW/Bolter/Grenades ala Chaos for the GHs and BP/CCW/Grenades for BCs. Hopefully they keep Counter Charge and BP/CCW/Bolter largely makes True Grit unnecessary. BCs getting Furious Charge is a fine swap for their current ability and dropping the must assault rule. Troops should get to pack two special weaps or swap one for another special CCW. And if the cost is reasonable (Maybe 14-15 for BCs and 16-17 for GHs), this will make for very strong troops that are not quite as hot at ranged combat but quite formidable at close range/CC. Getting the cheaper rhinos will also be a nice change. Since this is the core of the army, assuming decent costing, no big deal.

I anticipate SWs will get bikes and JPs as FA options and be comparable to SM bikes/JPs. Be nice to get something like Stormclaws with 2A, but not if they are loaded with the points cost of Vanguard. Speeders will probably be exactly like SM. HS should be the standard Pred/LR/LF, but SWs may get a new LR variant, so good there (although its hard to top the Crusader). LFs are currently pretty useless, but something like S&P could make them very useful and better than Devs. Again, costing will be a bif factor.

Elites will be Dreads, probably WG and maybe some new units. Again, the lower dread prices will probably appear, and TH/SS WG are going to be at least as good as the SM ones, though without the ability to get MC or Infiltrate. Rumors indicate they may get more attacks (possibly a character ability), so that seems pretty good. I will be interested to see if WG can be on bikes & can pull a Nob bikers thing.

And finally HQ will probably follow the same pattern as C:SM with the Chapter Master->Wolf Lord, Librarian->Rune Priest, Chaplain->Wolf Priest, Techmarine->Iron Priest. Captain->Battle Leader. Since the base choices should be comparable to C:SM and can power up with Sagas, this sounds pretty good. Hopefully the Lord will keep 4A base, but I can't see the other choices getting so many, probably 2 for all but the BL. I bet we also see a mount option ala C:CSM. Ablative wound wolves will probably disappear and be replaced by a FA wolf pack or similar.

So hardly the sky is falling, eh?

I guess this will also be the Codex picture (following the trend of the IG White Dwarf and Planetstrike White Dwarf, Lizardmen WhiteDwarf etc.



In which case its bloody awesome.