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ubermosher wrote:

Lurker wrote:

EXALTED SQUAD Around 150 Points
-Guardian of the Tower (one wound semi-commander stats)
-Exalted (veteran marine stats)
Unit Composition: 4 Exalted, 1 Guardian of the Tower
Unit Type: Jump Infantry
Wargear: Power armour, Stormbolter, Power weapon, Frag grenades, Krak grenades,
Jump packs
Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Hit & Run, Paragon of Restraint
Options: •The squad may include up to five additional Exalted for +30 pts per model

From the leaked PDF. Edited to restrict info.
They don't suffer from Blood Rage, and as such don't get benefits or drawbacks.
Seemingly the only way to give them Furious Charge is to get them close to a figure with Exsanguinator (not impossible but requires either an Honor Guard of High Priest).
Thoughts on these guys? Decent or just as overpriced as Vanguard?

The way I read it is that they're immune to Rage, not Red Thirst. They still need to do the Red Thirst test, and can still get FC... They just don't Rage if they fail leadership.

Edit: Just noticed that Red Thirst isn't listed in the Special Rules for Exalted... but I'm guessing it's an omission since Paragon of Restraint is meaningless without the Red Thirst.

Paragon of Restraint is for the models within 12" of the Exalted Squad.

@LORD_BLACKFANG
The fact remains that EXALTED are 30pts a pop. Vanguard are 35pts(?) with a power weapon and while they don't come with a Storm Bolter (or H&R) they do come with +1 attack because of this.
I'm not trying to advocate Vanguard, just that despite looking good I don't think Exalted are that different to Vanguard and that makes me wary (unless the 'Paragon Effect' becomes important....).
I guess I could word it better and ask if these guys would be taken over Death Company and Veteran Assault Marines?


@MRSAKO
Nice find. I was about to suggest the same thing.


On the subject of SETH and Flesh Tearers
Does the disadvantage of RAGE outweigh the Fleet and Furious Charge?
Particularly when you can include units* with a Paragon of Restraint** to help you avoid the RAGE USR.
Opinions?


*Units include Death Company Upgrade, Chaplain, Exalted, High Priest, Honour Guard Upgrade
*If a unit is in 6" of a model with the Paragon of Restraint special rule at the start of the
movement phase it ignores all effects of the Rage special rule for the remainder of the
turn.

Did anyone else notice how Assault Terminators changed? +10 points per guy to upgrade from the default lightning claws to the ubiquitous Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield combo.

I like the change as combined with the high possibility of Furious Charge it might be enough of a nudge to get some people to dust off their Old Lightning Claw terminators.


Also, what are people thinking about the idea of using the Storm Harbinger as a transport for terminators? It seems to lack the assault ramp that Landraiders offer but it is a Fast Skimmer for a little over half the cost.

Lurker wrote:@LORD_BLACKFANG
The fact remains that EXALTED are 30pts a pop. Vanguard are 35pts(?) with a power weapon

And without a jump pack.

Yes, vanguard suck we know :p Exalted look pretty sweet.. Take seth and a unit of them so your units can ignore rage

THe reason, IMO, that th/ss terms are 50pts is cause GW wants codex: marines to have ONE decent thing left in the book

Kirasu wrote:THe reason, IMO, that th/ss terms are 50pts is cause GW wants codex: marines to have ONE decent thing left in the book

Or they think they're undercosted, and will update the next Codex: Space Marines next edition?

Yeah, Exhalted look pretty damn good (provided they can get FC, that much is unclear. I'd love to toss 8 of those guys in a Storm Harbinger.

They make DC look pretty weak by comparison though. I'm kind of disappointed that they're so expensive with jump packs but without PWs. Not a unit I want to be paying close to 50 per.

Furiosos and Librarians look absolutely great though, I wasn't expecting so many attacks. I'm definitely gonna pick up some metal ones while I still can.

Brother SRM wrote:What I don't get is why tac marines are 5 points cheaper, and why anyone will ever buy a plasma pistol again. When a plasma pistol and a melta pistol are the exact same price, why would you ever NOT buy the one with 1 higher strength, the melta rule, and a 0% chance of it exploding in your face? Overall I like what I'm seeing though.

BA Tactical Marines are 5 points cheaper because they are worse than Codex Tactical Marines. Red Thirst is a disadvantageous rule for Tacs, and it replaces the excellent Combat Tactics.

ubermosher wrote:Edit: Just noticed that Red Thirst isn't listed in the Special Rules for Exalted... but I'm guessing it's an omission since Paragon of Restraint is meaningless without the Red Thirst.

Paragon of Restraint helps units around you.

It doesnt seem like they could get furious charge because they dont have the red thirst. However, there are ways of getting it

Either way, 30 pts for a stormbolter, PW and jump pack is pretty good!

Kirasu wrote:It doesnt seem like they could get furious charge because they dont have the red thirst. However, there are ways of getting it

Either way, 30 pts for a stormbolter, PW and jump pack is pretty good!

Yeah, but it's precisely that which I'm worried about. As is DC is stupidly overcosted. FNP will help for a little bit on the way in, but once you're actually in CC you're going to be getting chewed up by PWs that ignore FNP anyway. I'll be using my Exalted to engage dedicated CC units with buttloads of PWs.

Hell, I thought Rending was pretty terrible, but I might just take 15 of them, toss them into a LRC with Lemartes rather than pay so much for PWs.

Ostrakon wrote:

Kirasu wrote:It doesnt seem like they could get furious charge because they dont have the red thirst. However, there are ways of getting it

Either way, 30 pts for a stormbolter, PW and jump pack is pretty good!

Yeah, but it's precisely that which I'm worried about. As is DC is stupidly overcosted. FNP will help for a little bit on the way in, but once you're actually in CC you're going to be getting chewed up by PWs that ignore FNP anyway. I'll be using my Exalted to engage dedicated CC units with buttloads of PWs.

Hell, I thought Rending was pretty terrible, but I might just take 15 of them, toss them into a LRC with Lemartes rather than pay so much for PWs.

Does LeMartes Lose his Jump pack?

No.

jbunny wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

Kirasu wrote:It doesnt seem like they could get furious charge because they dont have the red thirst. However, there are ways of getting it

Either way, 30 pts for a stormbolter, PW and jump pack is pretty good!

Yeah, but it's precisely that which I'm worried about. As is DC is stupidly overcosted. FNP will help for a little bit on the way in, but once you're actually in CC you're going to be getting chewed up by PWs that ignore FNP anyway. I'll be using my Exalted to engage dedicated CC units with buttloads of PWs.

Hell, I thought Rending was pretty terrible, but I might just take 15 of them, toss them into a LRC with Lemartes rather than pay so much for PWs.

Does LeMartes Lose his Jump pack?

Crap, I don't have the "rumors" in front of me but now that you mention it, I don't know. I'm guessing 'no'.

I only ask cause you mentioned putting him in a LRC.

Yeah, the DC are expensive, but I'm surprised that no one so far has mentioned that if you're running Tycho as the Martyr of Tempestora you can effectively run 2 DC units.

Rending power fists with furious charge & preferred enemy assaulting a mech line from deepstrike.

G

jbunny wrote:I only ask cause you mentioned putting him in a LRC.

Yeah, there goes that plan.

Jesus, I was really looking forward to DC being awesome, but I can't fathom running them over Exalted for the point cost. At least not in jump packs, but maybe that's supposed to be intentional.

Taking them on foot with some non-jump-packed HQ in a redeemer could potentially be pretty good (if extremely pricy).

They're too vulnerable, too expensive, and not powerful enough.

I dont think DC are overpriced at all.. For 22 pts you get a veteran (18) points and then for *4* points you get FNP and furious charge. If you want the EXACT same unit as before just take lemartes.. basically same cost. 495 in new book for 10 DC with JP and Lemartes or 475 in old book.. So for 20 points more you get furious charge every round if you win combat.. Its not a huge difference point wise now

The only reason people think theyre not very good is cause we were spoiled with Mr Crutch (IE Dante).. The entire army book was basically garbage without him, and now we dont know how to run ba without him lol.. Chaplains were used long before Dante with super preferred enemy existed.

Pretty good in my mind! They can even take their own chaplain.. DC are the unit you use to keep pressing the advantage in CC with.. Use them with other units, keep winning combat which makes DC EXCELLENT in combats that last more than 1 round

Wiping someone out in round 1 is a bad idea generally

It was not until recent (last month) that I even used Dante. I would either just use LeMartes, or Mephiston/Cobulo combo. But I see how Dante is extremely useful.

Kirasu wrote:I dont think DC are overpriced at all.. For 22 pts you get a veteran (18) points and then for *4* points you get FNP and furious charge. If you want the EXACT same unit as before just take lemartes.. basically same cost. 495 in new book for 10 DC with JP and Lemartes or 475 in old book.. So for 20 points more you get furious charge every round if you win combat.. Its not a huge difference point wise now

The only reason people think theyre not very good is cause we were spoiled with Mr Crutch (IE Dante).. The entire army book was basically garbage without him, and now we dont know how to run ba without him lol.. Chaplains were used long before Dante with super preferred enemy existed.

Pretty good in my mind! They can even take their own chaplain.. DC are the unit you use to keep pressing the advantage in CC with.. Use them with other units, keep winning combat which makes DC EXCELLENT in combats that last more than 1 round

Wiping someone out in round 1 is a bad idea generally

Okay, fair enough, I guess DC aren't overcosted.

But then Exalted are miserably undercosted.

Hmm this could be an interesting codex, the new lander sounds way cool, and a fast predator. I am going to assume it is a draft(if it is not a fake), I think "angels" was misspelled a couple of times amongst others errors. But then again this could really make for a fun codex to proxy world eaters...... LoL

The number of misspellings also makes me think it's a "rough draft" of sorts.

I can see myself running a whole ton of bloodthirsty Flesh Tearers. That in and of itself really sounds like a hoot. However, I really don't need to buy yet another Marine army. I have enough MEQs as is. Seth sounds cooler and cooler though.

1: scouts can take a LS Storm as a Transport option
2: scout bikers get a fancy beacon reliminary Bridgehead: After assigning the deployment zones but before deployment, the Blood Angels player can place a Stealth Locator Beacon Marker anywhere on the table. If a unit wishes to arrive on the battlefield via deep strike from turn two on and chooses to do so within 6" of the marker and simultaneous there is no enemy unit in 6" of the marker, then it won't scatter.

i think, with the leaked codex at least, you can make a good combined arms army. Enough guns to put some dents in transports and still have a decent assault element.

somethign along the lines of a few typhoons, few baals withs autos and missiles and then melta/flamer toting assault troops to fill out.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Lurker wrote:
(Exalted)

Thoughts on these guys? Decent or just as overpriced as Vanguard?

They cost ~15 pts less per model than any comparable SM unit anywhere ever.

Given that those "comparable" SM are hugely overpriced and unplayable, that's OK.

19 pts AM base +2 Vet +1 SB, +5 PW, +1 frag&krak, +2 H&R, +2 Paragon = 32 pts; 10% combo & non-scoring discount means points are about right. They're playable if not competitively-priced.
____

Kirasu wrote:Yes, vanguard suck we know :p

THe reason, IMO, that th/ss terms are 50pts is cause GW wants codex: marines to have ONE decent thing left in the book

And that was the point, BTW - Vanguard were always intended to be uncompetitive and overpriced, because UMs don't do JP assault in a big way. GW just overdid the intentional overpricing a little bit.

UMs will still have Thunderfire instead of Ogryn Servitors, Sternguard, Vulkan, etc. as shooty advantages over BA fighty advatages. Plus, Tactics. It's not the end of the world for the blue marines.
____

Brother SRM wrote:The number of misspellings also makes me think it's a "rough draft" of sorts.

Like, say, a *playtest* Codex?

Speaking from personal experience when I was gifted with the WD codex a few months before release it was a PDF file which meant in order to post it on an internet forum I had to hand type everything basically

That alone leads to a lot of typos and other errors.. Im gonna guess thats what happened with this version

You try to copy stuff as fast as you can and well it doesnt turn out 100%

im gonna try out mephiston bomb with a big unit of DC that move as cav and be behind some kind of cover and yet ignore cover!

lord_blackfang wrote:

Lurker wrote:@LORD_BLACKFANG
The fact remains that EXALTED are 30pts a pop. Vanguard are 35pts(?) with a power weapon

And without a jump pack.

Shazam!
Missed that one!
Interesting to see John's breakdown and others thoughts too.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Rending power fists with furious charge & preferred enemy assaulting a mech line from deepstrike.

G

Or scattering onto the target, rolling a 1 on the mishap, and really making your day... Can't see inertial guidance on that Lander unit entry.

torgoch wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:Rending power fists with furious charge & preferred enemy assaulting a mech line from deepstrike.

G

Or scattering onto the target, rolling a 1 on the mishap, and really making your day... Can't see inertial guidance on that Lander unit entry.

Thank the Emprah

Still, I'm going to have fun with them. (Also, Lemartes only gives chainswords Rending, not any PWs in DC.)

I really don't mind a 50pt mark up per TH/SS Terminator squad. As good as the SS is it shouldn't have been a free upgrade.