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darknightwing wrote:I seriously hope it's not Chaos for the 'bad' side of the starter. It is a lot easier to trade off some xenos than Chaos.

I would think chaos would be easier to trade off then xenos in all honesty. Chaos has a fairly large player and fan base.

O.o

zearas wrote:Yeah I'll probably quit completely if DA comes out before BT. It's a bit silly how bad our book is. Not nessiarly competitive wise ( which it's still pretty bad on that account) but it's just not fun to play and when you have 6000 points of an army that just sits there it's pretty abdicating when more recent books get new cool stuff and gw just ignores the stuff that needs a bone.

I'm sorry dude but when I see someone complain about having 6k points of a specific army that hasn't been updated in a while I can't help but think that maybe err you put too many of your eggs in one basket.......

Not to mention the entitlement my Codex is older it deserves a Codex 1st is just silly considering the situation. They aren't going to just shove any armies in the starter one is going to be a SM army the other is going to be an obvious bad guy army while Eldar/Tau vs Imperial happens all the time in the setting they just aren't a good enough contrast for the starter ImpvsImp even more so. That the two armies in the starter are armies with 4th ed codexes that really do need an update is a good thing. That its DA in the starter instead of vanilla SM/UMs is a good thing. Having a 4th ed codex that needs an update (while arguably doesn't need it as much as BT) jump the que a bit because they have been included in the starter is better than it being SM jumping the que with their perfectly viable 5th ed codex being superflously updated as a result.

zearas wrote:Yeah I'll probably quit completely if DA comes out before BT.

"The universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed." - Games Workshop

Bonde wrote:My only concern is that the Chaos models in the starter set won't be brutal or chaosy eough, because GW also wants to market it to children.

Oh damn, now I am psyked for a proper Alfa Legion army list. My Imperial Guard army might just go traitors.

Why would you even think that? This entire game is marketed to teenagers just as much as it is to adults, and there's no reason why they'd make the models any more or less brutal just because it was in a starter box. There might not be guys ripping hearts out, Mortal Kombat style, but they're still going to be Chaos Marines, and they're still going to look like a bunch of spiky badasses.

-Loki- wrote:Considering hastings gave a nod to Dark Angels and Chaos, I'd say it's a pretty good bet. And gave a wink to cultists.

Even through he's 'left' the rumour business, he's still up there with Harry as the most trustworthy sources.


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zearas wrote:Yeah I'll probably quit completely if DA comes out before BT. It's a bit silly how bad our book is. Not nessiarly competitive wise ( which it's still pretty bad on that account) but it's just not fun to play and when you have 6000 points of an army that just sits there it's pretty abdicating when more recent books get new cool stuff and gw just ignores the stuff that needs a bone.

Diddums.

Tyranid players are in the same situation, and we've got a long wait for another book. At least yours is soon, even if DA beat them to a release.

Tyranids are only considered a crap army because 5th edition is more commonly known as 'mechhammer 40k' and 'nids like Daemons have crap all for even semi-decent ranged anti-tank. If 'nids had decent access to BS4 or better S9/10 and/or S8 ap1 they'd be right up there with the other 5th ed books in terms of competitive 'uberness. Sadly, 'nids are a swarm of bugs who can barely shoot strait and all your ranged anti-tank is limited for the most part to the Elites section.
Play a game of 40k with only say 2 transports and perhaps 2-3 other vehicle targets instead of the current standard of 6-12+ vehicles and 'nids are competitive.

As for Templars needing an update over DA's?! Laughable... Sure Templars are stale, but they're still solid in competitive play even if their builds look nothing like what a Templar army *should* going by their background.
Those poor DA's are just redonkulously even more expensive marines with less options than even templars get and all of 1 viable tourny build. Oh, and no real identity of their own, despite being the original fething legion!

And no, I'm not some DA fanboy - I play Daemons! i just think that DA's really deserve to have the limelight and be made into more than just the sideshow they've been reduced to since 3rd edition!

Actually DA are also quite competitive, their armies just look really boring because their good unit is 5 deathwing terminators with hammer/shield and a cyclone.

zearas wrote:Yeah I'll probably quit completely if DA comes out before BT. It's a bit silly how bad our book is. Not nessiarly competitive wise ( which it's still pretty bad on that account) but it's just not fun to play and when you have 6000 points of an army that just sits there it's pretty abdicating when more recent books get new cool stuff and gw just ignores the stuff that needs a bone.

Let's look at this.

Your codex was produced at a time where flexibility was encouraged. The 4th edition SM codex, BT codex and Tyranid codex were some of the most fun and flexible ones around. In comparison your codex is still very, very powerful. The DA codex, like the Eldar and CSM were produced in that phase where GW decided they wanted tame, generic codexes that were balanced all round and had people relying more on fluff and characterful unit selections for a theme - hence the disappearing of Black Guardians, hence the taming of the DA in general, hence the convoluted Icon system for CSM. They threw this out the window with Daemons and Orks, so that lasted all of maybe 6 months.

Another big rumour for the coming edition is Preferred Enemy applying to shooting as well as close combat attacks. Say, doesn't your army have the ability to get an army-wide Preferred Enemy as well as having SM standard short ranged firepower, especially since some of the more debilitating factors disappeared with 5th edition and the FAQ?

Are you sure you want to give all that up?

The 'oldest codex should be updated first!' tantrum doesn't mean jack when said 'old codex' is still significantly more powerful than some of the 'new' ones.

I have said it before and I will say it again: If DA get pushed into the Vanilla dex as special characters, I will up and quit this damn game. I don't care if BT get updated first or not, but for them to get a dex and the DA to be special charactered is laughable.

The starter box will, more than likely, be like the 3rd and 5th editions where pretty much everything will be generic, which means as a "all robed" player I won't have much use for the models, but the new story would be welcome.

Experiment 626 wrote:


Play a game of 40k with only say 2 transports and perhaps 2-3 other vehicle targets instead of the current standard of 6-12+ vehicles and 'nids are competitive.

In other words:

Handicap every other list in the game and Nids are competitive!

Hmm DA have been around and popular, deserving their own decided since RT days. Templars on the other hand only really since 3rd when GW realised they could sell more ccw/ bolt pistol arms sprues by redoing a list. The DA fixed is one of the weakest out there, nothing really unique anymore, better off fielding vanilla marines. Honestly they need updating more than eldar and about the same as nids and chaos marines imo...
But as ever lets see what happens. Brets and WE haven't been updated yet in WHFB in GW's wisdom...

Think if it this way DA have a huge wealth of background and character to build on when designing new models ( this is GW'S business .to sell models !the rules are there to give you something to do with said models and to encourage you to buy more) there best business decision is to revamp the DA just like they have with the BA . Ok the BT do have fluff but they are not as individual or as iconic as the DA


Oh and DA weren't "the original legion" jhonson wasn't found till quite late in the crusade its just that there legion was numbered one out of the others pre crusade .

-Loki- wrote:Considering hastings gave a nod to Dark Angels and Chaos, I'd say it's a pretty good bet. And gave a wink to cultists.

Even through he's 'left' the rumour business, he's still up there with Harry as the most trustworthy sources..

This makes me laugh. With rumours ... Hastings makes me look like I am fumbling around in the dark.

In my experience if he says thats what it is ... thats what it is.

CURNOW wrote:Oh and DA weren't "the original legion" jhonson wasn't found till quite late in the crusade its just that there legion was numbered one out of the others pre crusade .

"The Dark Angels have the honour of being the first Legion created by The Emperor."~ 40k Lexicanum

If you want to read more with the reference numbers.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Angels#.TyxkgFLNltk

DA won't become better till someone besides Jarvis writes them.

CURNOW wrote:Oh and DA weren't "the original legion" jhonson wasn't found till quite late in the crusade its just that there legion was numbered one out of the others pre crusade .

Dude lrn2fluff...


Fosner knows whats hes talking about.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:DA won't become better till someone besides Jarvis writes them.

Anyone, ANYONE but Jarvis would be better.

d-usa wrote:

Dark Angels have not been featured in a boxed set, so it is something I can see happening.

(sorry, could'n resist!)

Warhammer 40.000 Dark millenium extension box!

Snrub wrote:

CURNOW wrote:Oh and DA weren't "the original legion" jhonson wasn't found till quite late in the crusade its just that there legion was numbered one out of the others pre crusade .

Dude lrn2fluff...


Fosner knows whats hes talking about.

Huh...no.

The DA was indeed the first Legion made, but they did indeed found Lion El'johnson after a few others Primarchs.

combatmedic wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:DA won't become better till someone besides Jarvis writes them.

Anyone, ANYONE but Jarvis would be better.

Even Cruddace?

Slayer le boucher wrote:

d-usa wrote:

Dark Angels have not been featured in a boxed set, so it is something I can see happening.

Warhammer 40.000 Dark millenium extension box!

A valid technical point, but it's not like that box set came with any miniatures.

I gotta love that DA Captain's Wesley Snipes haircut, though!

combatmedic wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:DA won't become better till someone besides Jarvis writes them.

Anyone, ANYONE but Jarvis would be better.

Ah yes, famed codex author Jarvis Jhensen, no relation to Jervis Johnson!

The codex will be better than the one they have no, by nature of it being a codex not written in that awful mindset. CSM, WD BA, and DA all had that same model for writing and it was awful, and won't happen again.

Well depending on what armies are in the set I hope I can find someone at my locals that wants one army and is willing to their part of the other trade so I can pick up a large amount of models for another army.

Wait traitor guard and cultists are coming back? YES! YES! YES! My Corsairs will have their meat shields back.

I also hope Chaos gets some flavor back like it had in the 3.5 dex and get the actual daemons we want to field and not generics and fill ins that aren't as good or fun to have.

Darnok over at Warseer posted this from an anonymous source:

Darnok wrote:I've been told the following:

- no BT in the near future
- DA are "in progress"
- Eldar and Tau are being worked on, with Eldar further along than Tau

Concerning Chaos:

- the book is done and almost at the printers
- an Iron Warriors character (?) has been seen, with a huge servo harness
- possible new Obliterators (plastic or Finecast?)
- painted versions of all 4 cult terminators have been sighted - could be conversions though
- plastic Plaguebearers on round bases have been sighted

(...)
And last, but definetely not least: more flyers seem to be in the works, including an Ork Fighter! It seemed to be very similar to the FW version. No specific mention of a timeframe was given - expect it sometime the next six months.

The usual disclaimer: while I trust my birdies, you don't have to. Please don't take any of this as gospel.

I have sourced out info on BT, Tyranids, Necrons and Chaos to extra threads (mostly existing).

So if no BT, and DA, Tau & Eldar are being worked on (aka not finished yet), and Chaos coming after the new edition, then what?

We assume there are two waves coming up soon (SW/Tyranids/Necrons/IG), but it would be rather weird if we get no full 40K army release before the summer

Either only 2nd waves before 6th edition.
But "DA in progess" doesn't contradict BoK's rumour of a DA Codex in April//May.

A DA codex in april/may would be unexpected (at least until recently), but welcome (my Marine army is DA themed).

However, we would then (assumedly) get DA, a starter box with DA vs Chaos, and after that Chaos, all in the same year.

Why not? 2nd waves FTW!

IF DA are "done, WiP" or whatever state as of yet, it is an eerie silence about them. Any info to share?

Finally the new policy with rumors makes sense. DA took over and the secrets are kept now, safe.

A starter set with DA and CSM makes sense since both armies will arrive right before and after the new edition. How about Tau, BT and Eldar?

More plastic Eldar to replace finecast would be fine by me.

Harry wrote:

If this edition follows the release schedules of the past, it will be BRB in June, Starter Set in October. Lots of room for releases before, in between, and after those.

I am thinking July and September.

Tau/Elder in Q4 then. Great.

Not so much.

Probably closer to Q1 2013, whichever one it is.

Or even both.

I want my damn Templars.

Sadly .....